How long with 55g of water last?

[Vaughn]

If the 55 gal of fresh water runs low, use sea water for most of the washes and fresh water (distilled?) for final rinse. That will extend the 55 gallon fresh water supply.

I am assuming adding sea water to your waste water makes no difference.

 

[eli griggs]

When you think of dumping darkroom waste water, chemicals at sea, no a marina or in a slow river or lake, take a moment to consider how many parts per, what, trillions (?) of gallons of water, osmosis into the Gulf will be the result of doing so.

Cruse the Pacific side or out into the Atlantic, you could maybe pick-up more of natures chemistry in a gallon of sea water, whatever the result, thinking about the math is fun, and I'm no math wiz, to be certain.

It's in coastal waters that you'll no want to dump in, and you can cut down on silver release by first pouring used fixer into a squeaky clean plastic bucket (first use) with some steel wool, and replace the silver with iron/rust in the hypo, while the silver plates out to the inside wall of the bucket.

After a few day, THEN, dump the rusty water into the open sea, with deforming the bucket sides, so the plated out silver on the inside does no come loose and go into the sea as well.

After this, just continue to remove the silver from fixer, letting it build up the plate inside the bucket, until it's thick enough to break lose when the dried inside wall is pushed inward, so you can recover the minuscule amount of silver and keep in in a small, lidded jar.

IMO.

 

[MattKing]

Based on Christopher's description of the marina water and all the contaminants therein, I wouldn't recommend using that water for anything!

 

[MattKing]

When you think of dumping darkroom waste water, chemicals at sea, no a marina or in a slow river or lake, take a moment to consider how many parts per, what, trillions (?) of gallons of water, osmosis into the Gulf will be the result of doing so.

Cruse the Pacific side or out into the Atlantic, you could maybe pick-up more of natures chemistry in a gallon of sea water, whatever the result, thinking about the math is fun, and I'm no math wiz, to be certain.

It's in coastal waters that you'll no want to dump in, and you can cut down on silver release by first pouring used fixer into a squeaky clean plastic bucket (first use) with some steel wool, and replace the silver with iron/rust in the hypo, while the silver plates out to the inside wall of the bucket.

After a few day, THEN, dump the rusty water into the open sea, with deforming the bucket sides, so the plated out silver on the inside does no come loose and go into the sea as well.

After this, just continue to remove the silver from fixer, letting it build up the plate inside the bucket, until it's thick enough to break lose when the dried inside wall is pushed inward, so you can recover the minuscule amount of silver and keep in in a small, lidded jar.

IMO.

The OP is concerned about his print wash water, not his used fixer.

 

[Mike Lopez]

Permawash is a good way to dramatically cut down on wash times and water usage.

 

[MattKing]

Permawash is a good way to dramatically cut down on wash times and water usage.

But again, not with RC prints.

 

[eli griggs]

Matt, I know that, however, introducing silver in the environment has been mentioned, and that is the reason for my post on the fixer topic.

Cheers and Be Well, Be Happy,
Eli

 

[rick shaw]

55 gallons / 2 liters = 104 print washings

YMMV

 

[Sirius Glass]

Use Hypo Clearing Agent. The rocking of the boat will help the development agitation.

 

[BobD]

What is the point of piping the water onto the print and then back into the drum? You might as well just put the print into the drum.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

What is the point of piping the water onto the print and then back into the drum? You might as well just put the print into the drum.

Hadn't thought of that. I guess I was just thinking about it from the perspective of having the prints in a sink.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Use Hypo Clearing Agent. The rocking of the boat will help the development agitation.

My storage unit isn't on the boat. It's a normal storage unit in a land based facility.

 

[john_s]

There's already 0.0003parts per million of silver in seawater. You would have to discard a lot of print wash water to make a difference.

https://web.stanford.edu/group/Urchin/mineral.html

 

[grainyvision]

Could sea water be used directly for nearly everything excluding final rinse? You'd of course want to boil it to kill any life in it, but the concerning things in sea water is a fair amount of chloride, and a bit of bromide and iodide. For paper developer purposes, I doubt that the amounts in sea water would matter much, but iodide may affect the fixer causing it to decay faster.

For wash water, even for FB it was documented in the olden days that sea water will wash hypo out of paper faster, but a final rinse should be unsalted to prevent crystals etc when dried. For development, I'd recommend using a long lived working solution to reduce water usage in general. For instance, Ansco 130 will last many printing sessions.

edit: This highly depends on where you are at too! If you're in polluted waters you might be able to just take the sea water, add some carbonate, and accidentally have a functional developer. Some people have done this with polluted rivers to develop film. I'm talking more like, out at sea pretty far away from pollution sources. If you're in a marina, who knows what the water could contain

 

[mgb74]

I'm curious - how do you plan to dispose of that 55g of water? You may want to have 2 wash containers. When so many prints have been washed, discard the water in the first container, then the 2nd container becomes the first. Fresh water is added to the container you emptied.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I'm curious - how do you plan to dispose of that 55g of water? You may want to have 2 wash containers. When so many prints have been washed, discard the water in the first container, then the 2nd container becomes the first. Fresh water is added to the container you emptied.

Hadn't thought that far. But I'm thinking that if RC paper doesn't require that much water that I can use a smaller tank which I can transport to and from the storage unit, and empty into a sewer drain.

 

[Rudeofus]

First, +1 to @earlz suggestion of using (filtered) sea water for most washes, that should be abundant around you.

Second: you probably know the technical back ground of two bath fixing. Pretty much in the same fashion you could establish multi bath washing, i.e. a chain of small water containers labeled from wash 1 to maybe wash 3 or 4, and as you proceed from wash 1 to wash 3/4, you discard wash 1 and shift the remaining wash bathes to one index lower. Two bath fixing increases effective fixer capacity by a factor of 4, there's a good chance, that you get at least as much water savings from multi stage washing.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Y'all are fixated on sea water. I live on a boat, my storage unit does not. It is a normal, land based facility that is absent of pontoons. I do not have to swim a moat of salty sea water to get to it. I do not use sea water for anything in my life, except to keep my home afloat. I will never use, nor even consider the possibility of using, sea water for anything. I know what lives in it, and I've seen what floats around in it.

 

[mgb74]

Y'all are fixated on sea water. I live on a boat, my storage unit does not. It is a normal, land based facility that is absent of pontoons. I do not have to swim a moat of salty sea water to get to it. I do not use sea water for anything in my life, except to keep my home afloat. I will never use, nor even consider the possibility of using, sea water for anything. I know what lives in it, and I've seen what floats around in it.

I suspect some folks are thinking the pristine water surrounding a Pacific atoll rather than the water the bays around Houston. And I'm not sure the the water around those Pacific atolls is that pristine anymore.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I suspect some folks are thinking the pristine water surrounding a Pacific atoll rather than the water the bays around Houston. And I'm not sure the the water around those Pacific atolls is that pristine anymore.

Our water makes the less than pristine waters around a Pacific atoll look like holy water. Last week it was the color of chocolate milk that had been swirled around in a rusty paint can.

 

[lantau]

Y'all are fixated on sea water. I live on a boat, my storage unit does not. It is a normal, land based facility that is absent of pontoons. I do not have to swim a moat of salty sea water to get to it. I do not use sea water for anything in my life, except to keep my home afloat. I will never use, nor even consider the possibility of using, sea water for anything. I know what lives in it, and I've seen what floats around in it.

I was just reading two pages and was screaming in my head that the guy is working in a storage unit, not his boat...

In theory the amount of water in a tray, which fits the print, will be enough to wash the print. It would take its time, however. With about three water changes that will be quick and efficient. Just do one minute per filling and rock the tray. Drain the used water into another container. It will be easier to carry it away after each session than washing in the 55g drum and then having to drain that one.

Nevertheless, the concentration of washed out fixer in the 55g drum will be very low for a considerable number of prints. Washing a print in it will be as good as using flowing water. At least for a while.

Only thing to consider is that you should rinse the print before washing. The absolute amount of fixer in the emulsion is tiny, but the fixer on the soaking wet print is actually quite a bit. Perhaps you'd like to use a water bottle to rinse down (as in hose down) the print and then wash it. Either in a tray with a few changes or in your drum.

Also, hard tap water is better than distilled water for washing. Sea water would be fine in theory, it's the biological load that you don't want near your prints.

And finally, consider getting some Adox Adostab (was Agfa Sistan). It's a final rinse with wetting agent and thiocyanate to stabilise the print. If you managed, against the odds, to not properly wash your prints this might safe you. I hang my prints from a corner and thanks to the wetting agent the prints will be drying clean and quick.

 

[mgb74]

The other thing to consider here is the archival requirements - or lack thereof - of your prints. Let's face it, most of us make prints that really aren't of great value aesthetically or historically. So what if your prints only last 10 years instead of 100. And, realistically, how many prints are you going to make in one session?

We all enjoy overthinking someone else's question.

So I'm putting my bet on 15 gal of water. 2-3 tubs of water with the final wash tub having some type of circulation; 2.5g of water per tub. After 5 sheets of 8x10 (plus some test strips), toss the water in the first tub, refill it with fresh water, and make it the final wash. Number 2 tub is now number 1 and number 3 tub is now number 2.

By my calculation, and with 3 tubs, you have enough water for 20 8x10s (you'll have to tell us how many "keepers" you get out of that). Every additional 5 gal of water you have buys you 10 more prints. Maybe it makes sense to have circulation in all the tubs; I don't know.

Then come back in 5-10 years to report on how the prints lasted.

 

[pentaxuser]

Y'all are fixated on sea water..

I agree. We do tend to get fixated more often that we should with one aspect of a problem and its apparent ability to solve the issue first raised by the OP In recent months I fear this gene has crept into our genetic make-up unseen. A bit like the danger in the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"

Some times we need to ask more questions/ask for more clarification before provided answers.

pentaxuser

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I live on a boat and try as I might, I have absolutely no room to set up a dark room. I do however have a large storage unit with electricity.

If I took a 55g drum of water and plumbed it to a circulating pump, how long could I theoretically use it to wash prints before it became ineffective? Emptying it and refilling it once a week is one thing, but once every 6 hours is another.

You can calculate this yourself as you need about 1 water exchange per minute in whatever you wash in;Also film and RC-papersneed to was for ten minutes while FBpaper neds to wash between 30-60 minutes.

 

[MattKing]

Folks, Ilford recommends washing RC papers for 120 seconds. That is in slowly running water.