How long with 55g of water last?

ChristopherCoy · Jan 13, 2021

I live on a boat and try as I might, I have absolutely no room to set up a dark room. I do however have a large storage unit with electricity.

If I took a 55g drum of water and plumbed it to a circulating pump, how long could I theoretically use it to wash prints before it became ineffective? Emptying it and refilling it once a week is one thing, but once every 6 hours is another.

BradS · Jan 13, 2021

Depends upon what type of paper you plan to use. Resin coated paper requires much less wash water than fiber based.

ChristopherCoy · Jan 13, 2021

I'm a resin person.

MattKing · Jan 13, 2021

For clarity, are you recirculating the water from the drum, into the washer and then back into the drum?
What are you using to wash the prints?
How many prints are you washing in a week, and how big are they?

ChristopherCoy · Jan 13, 2021

MattKing said:
For clarity, are you recirculating the water from the drum, into the washer and then back into the drum?
What are you using to wash the prints?
How many prints are you washing in a week, and how big are they?

Yes, it would be pumped from the drum, through the sink to wash prints, and back into the drum.

I don't understand the second question. I'm using water to wash the prints, under one of those spray tray things.

Haven't washed a print in years so I dont know how many would be washed per week, but nothing bigger than 8x10.

I'm just trying to figure out options to set something up at this point. I've considered converting a cargo trailer for a mobile darkroom as well but of course that initial investment is high.

grain elevator · Jan 13, 2021

You live on a boat and lack wash water? Unless you are stranded in a dried out lake or something, why not take just rinsed prints back to the boat to wash them?

pentaxuser · Jan 13, 2021

Ilford says that RC paper can be washed in as little as 2 mins of running water. I don't think it specifies the rate of flow but it is fairly slow. Give 2 mins a try with a slow rate of water and see how much is used. That will give you an idea of how much water per print or possibly how much per 2-3 prints as there is every reason to believe that if you shuffle the prints in a tray then 3 can be washed at once.

I am not sure how many litres of water there is in a 55 U.S. gallons of water but I'd have thought more than enough for a decent printing session for several days at least but until you do the maths you won't really know

pentaxuser

ChristopherCoy · Jan 13, 2021

grain elevator said:
You live on a boat and lack wash water? Are you stranded in a dried out lake or something?

I can see where you would think that would be funny, but I don't believe in dumping chemicals overboard.

BGriffin23 · Jan 13, 2021

55 gal = 200 L

grain elevator · Jan 13, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
I can see where you would think that would be funny, but I don't believe in dumping chemicals overboard.

I edited my post above to be a little more helpful. The amount of chemicals would going into the water would be miniscule. If your boat has an antifouling coat, I'm pretty sure that's much worse for the water critters.

BradS · Jan 13, 2021

I too only print on RC paper and nothing larger than 8x10. My gut says that 55gallons would be quite sufficient for a whole weekend of moderate darkroom sessions

ChristopherCoy · Jan 13, 2021

grain elevator said:
I edited my post above to be a little more helpful. The amount of chemicals would going into the water would be miniscule. If your boat has an antifouling coat, I'm pretty sure that's much worse for the water critters.

Well the shear amount of diesel, bottom paint, topside paint, wax, aluminum polish, gear grease and everything else that goes into the water from the shipyard is probably much worse than anything I'd put in the water. But still, I try to be as environmentally conscious as possible.

grain elevator · Jan 13, 2021

I applaud the attitude.
If you go with the water storage approach, you could get further with less water if you had separate tanks for first and second, maybe also third wash. Analogous to two bath fixing - keep the final water cleaner.

MattKing · Jan 13, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
I don't understand the second question. I'm using water to wash the prints, under one of those spray tray things.

You might be using one of several types of print washers:
a) pouring water into a normal tray and having it overflow out the top.
b) a tray and a Kodak tray siphon.
c) a vertical print washer.
d) a print washing tray with a filling tube at one end and small drainage holes at the other end.
e) a big round several gallon print washer that fills with a hose; and
f) a few others.
Each tends to use a different amount of water.
RC papers don't need to be washed for very long, or with very much water. I wash them for one minute in one tray, and then another minute in a second tray (that drains into the lower, first tray). The top tray is a print washing tray like the one described in d) above.
Ilford's data sheet says this:
"Washing times
Wash for at least 15 seconds at temperatures above 5ºC/41ºF. Set the water flow so as to fill the wash tank in 4 minutes or less. "
Here is the link: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1826/product/1696/
Do not recirculate the wash water. Discard it after use.
If you are using a tray that holds a half gallon of water, it should be filling quite slowly.

MattKing · Jan 13, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
I can see where you would think that would be funny, but I don't believe in dumping chemicals overboard.

RC print wash water has such a tiny amount of fixer in it, it probably doesn't matter - in fact, it is probably far less hazardous than the water you are dumping it into. If you regularly rinse down your boat, you are probably putting worse into the water.
But if it concerns you, dumping the print wash water into your sewage system is an available option, and of even less concern.
If you allow your prints to drain for a few seconds before putting them into the wash water, wash water is of very, very low concern.

ChristopherCoy · Jan 13, 2021

MattKing said:
RC print wash water has such a tiny amount of fixer in it, it probably doesn't matter - in fact, it is probably far less hazardous than the water you are dumping it into. If you regularly rinse down your boat, you are probably putting worse into the water.
But if it concerns you, dumping the print wash water into your sewage system is an available option, and of even less concern.
If you allow your prints to drain for a few seconds before putting them into the wash water, wash water is of very, very low concern.

Well that makes me feel better. I always thought there was a significant amount of silver that would end up in the water and had visions of deformed fish swimming around.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 13, 2021

In my unplumbed darkroom (spare bedroom) I had in Japan, I had to truck water in from the bathroom. I washed, using the Ilford method, four 8x10 sheets in 20 litres of water. The same amount of water was used for 8x10 fibre prints.

rick shaw · Jan 13, 2021

A little thinking outside the drum, if that is alright.

Zero Water makes filters that essentially produces RO water. We have a 5 liter countertop unit.

I'm thinking you wouldn't have to carry any water in advance, and filter the water around you to make enough clean water to wash 2 prints at a time. Then dump the spent wash water back into the filter. Wash, filter, repeat.

You will have the cost of filters and I have no idea how long they will last in this application. We go through about 3L of filtered well water per day and the filters last 2-3 months.

RS

MattKing · Jan 13, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
Well that makes me feel better. I always thought there was a significant amount of silver that would end up in the water and had visions of deformed fish swimming around.

The main problem with silver is that it is a natural bactericide. It is still used to treat certain types of bacterial infections.
So high quantities and high concentrations are bad for things like ecosystems that depend on bacteria - including septic tanks.
If your water flow into that half gallon tray is one quart a minute, it should be ample.

eli griggs · Jan 13, 2021

IMO, you could do better by buying Walmart or other box store distilled water for mixing chemicals and washing using the Ilford Method for washing, film and paper, which will save you time and space aboard ship.

The small amounts of water needed will surprise you, if you've no done this before and you can, use tap or sea water for more extended washing, however, finish up with a good distilled water final wash.

I do no know if a sea water, and I'm no talking about marina waters, of any kind, can be used as a water stop, but that'll be something to look up.

Me, I'm waiting until my big lottery payoff rolls around and I refit a room on my 76 foot Nordhaven, for a darkroom/studio.

I suggest you by a polypropylene barrel or better plastic, to store water in (metal drums add unneeded issues and, you could just dump inexpensive gallons of store bough distilled water, directly into it as a storage tank, re filling as needed in port.

Do try to pick a good paper that will benefit from HCL/hypoclear as that'll save water also.

Cheers and again, IMO only

MattKing · Jan 13, 2021

eli griggs said:
Do try to pick a good paper that will benefit from HCL/hypoclear as that'll save water also.

Not necessary or useful with RC papers, but definitely with FB papers.

ChristopherCoy · Jan 13, 2021

eli griggs said:
Me, I'm waiting until my big lottery payoff rolls around and I refit a room on my 76 foot Nordhaven, for a darkroom/studio.

They day you buy that boat is the day you and I get married.

eli griggs · Jan 13, 2021

Sorry, I already have a Texas Wife, my Rozeann.

Cheers.

ChristopherCoy · Jan 13, 2021

eli griggs said:
Sorry, I already have a Texas Wife, my Rozeann.

Cheers.

It's ok. For a 76' Nord, I'll share.

BradS · Jan 13, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
Well the shear amount of diesel, bottom paint, topside paint, wax, aluminum polish, gear grease and everything else that goes into the water from the shipyard is probably much worse than anything I'd put in the water. But still, I try to be as environmentally conscious as possible.

thank you, sincerely. We each must do what we can - even if it only makes a small difference.

How long with 55g of water last?

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