How expired are Pan F 50, expired 9 years ago

baachitraka · Dec 8, 2017

also Fomapan 100 expired some 7 years ago?

zanxion72 · Dec 8, 2017

Slow film keeps up well against time. Here is a sample from a 20+ year old Pan F plus:

Drowning (literally)

baachitraka · Dec 8, 2017

That looks really good.

K-G · Dec 8, 2017

Unexposed : No problems , Exposed : Develop within a month !

Karl-Gustaf

monst · Dec 8, 2017

I reckon it would be 9 years out of date

Cholentpot · Dec 8, 2017

Shouldn't be a problem. Slow film holds up very well. 400 and higher does not I've found.

Ces1um · Mar 2, 2018

My experience is limited, but I shot some kodachrome that was 25 years out of date and the results were perfectly fine. I shot some expired 110 film that was about 15 years out of date with good results. I don't think I'd ever turn up my nose to expired film. Maybe I just wouldn't use it for something really important just in case. Baby's first steps, daughters prom photos, first day of school, probably not a good idea.

I hear instant film doesn't hold up well at all though, but I have no direct experience with that.

Pentode · Mar 2, 2018

The faster the film, the more likely it is to be fogged and color film loses both contrast and color saturation over time.

Storage conditions will play a big role in how quickly expired film degrades.

Unless the storage conditions were really bad your film should be fine.

bsdunek · Mar 2, 2018

As Pentode says, storage conditions are more important. I just used a Minox cassette of Agfa 25 that was my Dad's. It expired in 1987, but has been in the freezer since new. Not only looked great, it's better than todays film.

craigclu · Mar 3, 2018

I had this situation (aged Pan-F+) and did some testing after finding a large, forgotten bunch of Pan-F+ in the freezer. Pan-F+ is known to be sensitive to losses of latent image more than some films so I was a bit nervous about using the 10+ year-old film. I had a couple of bulk reels, some factory 35 packs and 120 rolls. I plotted 2 rolls, one new and one from the freezer stash, exposed identically and developed together. In getting some old data transferred to a new computer recently , I remembered seeing the file and thought I'd share. I happened to be trying out WD2D+ at the time but can't say I have any meaningful experience with the developer and moved on to other things at the time. For what it's worth, this quick little test told me that I could assume the old film to be equivalent to the new batch in use.

Ces1um · Mar 4, 2018

Ces1um said:
My experience is limited, but I shot some kodachrome that was 25 years out of date and the results were perfectly fine. I shot some expired 110 film that was about 15 years out of date with good results. I don't think I'd ever turn up my nose to expired film. Maybe I just wouldn't use it for something really important just in case. Baby's first steps, daughters prom photos, first day of school, probably not a good idea.

I hear instant film doesn't hold up well at all though, but I have no direct experience with that.

That should have been ektachrome- not kodachrome.

traveler_101 · Mar 7, 2018

Storage is key then? What about colour film that has sat in the refrigerator for a few years? Just haven't managed to get around to shooting it.

Vaughn · Mar 7, 2018

Since the latent image does not hold up well, the frame numbers will be faint.

Poisson Du Jour · Mar 7, 2018

traveler_101 said:
Storage is key then? What about colour film that has sat in the refrigerator for a few years? Just haven't managed to get around to shooting it.

Buy colour film. Use the colour film. That also applies to PanF+50, which is the oddball emulsion in that it requires exposure then processing fairly quickly.

Stashing any sort of film away for years and years achieves nothing but waste. It also contributes nothing to encouraging manufacturers to continue making film for a market that is more interested in what's lying between the roast chicken and peas in the deep freezer rather than begging to be bought off the shelf or from wherever. Use it or lose it.

Eric Rose · Mar 7, 2018

I shot some recently that had to be at leadt 20 years expired. Came out perfectly.

Ces1um · Mar 8, 2018

I've shot 25 year old ektachrome without issue. People have pulled images off of cameras found in shot down airplanes from world war II off the ocean floor and got at least an "image". Most film when you buy it have a "best before" date of 2-3 years where they safely sit on a store shelf. Maybe the image will have degraded some, but will it be noticeable? I dunno. I've shot lots of film that is just passed it's expiration by a few years and still worked fine. That being said, why would you not just buy the film as you need it? That's likely the best way to do it.

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 8, 2018

PanF is known for very poor latent image retention. Develop it as soon as possible after shooting it. Do not let it sit for months, or even weeks if you can avoid it.

bigdog · Mar 8, 2018

K-G said:
Unexposed : No problems , Exposed : Develop within a month !

Karl-Gustaf

I concur, I found a roll of 120 Pan F that had been exposed by my brother approximately 15 years ago on his Holga. Some frames had no information and the few that did were extremely grainy and had very limited retained information. I used Rodinal which is very forgiving. It is my understanding this emulsion has poor latency characteristics once the film has been exposed. So the elapsed time between in camera exposure and development is perhaps more critical in obtaining usable negatives with Pan F as compared to other emulsions?

traveler_101 · Mar 9, 2018

Poisson Du Jour said:
Buy colour film. Use the colour film. That also applies to PanF+50, which is the oddball emulsion in that it requires exposure then processing fairly quickly.

Stashing any sort of film away for years and years achieves nothing but waste. It also contributes nothing to encouraging manufacturers to continue making film for a market that is more interested in what's lying between the roast chicken and peas in the deep freezer rather than begging to be bought off the shelf or from wherever. Use it or lose it.

Glad to hear you are such an enthusiast for film. I shoot b&w and develop the negatives myself.

The colour film rolls were not purchased for storage. They were left over from when I first picked up a film camera again about ten years ago. At that time you could still get inexpensive C-41 processing in pharmacies in the USA. I have about six rolls left. After the inexpensive processing was no longer available, I thought I would shoot and develop them myself so I bought a colour processing kit. But everything has just been sitting around - both the kit and the film in my refrigerator.

I was simply asking whether at this point it would be worth to use them, or simply dispose of them.

mnemosyne · Mar 9, 2018

traveler_101 said:
Glad to hear you are such an enthusiast for film. I shoot b&w and develop the negatives myself.

The colour film rolls were not purchased for storage. They were left over from when I first picked up a film camera again about ten years ago. At that time you could still get inexpensive C-41 processing in pharmacies in the USA. I have about six rolls left. After the inexpensive processing was no longer available, I thought I would shoot and develop them myself so I bought a colour processing kit. But everything has just been sitting around - both the kit and the film in my refrigerator.

I was simply asking whether at this point it would be worth to use them, or simply dispose of them.

What speed is the film? The keeping properties depend more on the base speed of the film than on the type (cn, reversal, b&w). The rule of thumb is, the slower the film, the more resistant it is to fogging and age related problems. One of the mentioned weaknesses of Pan F+, a ISO50 b&w negative film --- its bad latent image keeping characteristics --- works in our favor when it comes to long term storage properties. The bad latent image keeping makes it less susceptible to fogging.

Slow speed film can be kept a very long time (decades) in cool or freeze conditions without major impact. Medium speed film (ISO100/200) should keep well at least a couple of years in a fridge, maybe a decade in a freezer. ISO400 and up I would not keep too long beyond their "process before" date. I have some Fomapan 400 film that is four years past its date and it already shows a marked rise in fog level when compared to fresh film. Still useable but not as good as fresh stuff. ISO1600/EI3200 film should be used as soon as possible. I would not bother to keep such films beyond their "process before" date.

Ces1um · Mar 9, 2018

traveler_101 said:
I was simply asking whether at this point it would be worth to use them, or simply dispose of them.

Use them! I'd try one at a time. I've read that you should overexpose by a stop for "old" film but I have never seen criteria saying "how old" or "how was it stored" to modify that one stop rule for colour film. Unless you're shooting a wedding, baby's first steps, or some other similarly priceless moment what really have you got to lose other than the processing fee? If nothing else that's a cheap price to pay to satisfy your curiosity and for a learning experience. I have an unexposed roll of ektachrome I'm going to shoot next week. I have no idea how old it is. I know it was left in a box with a bunch of other films that had been exposed, probably sitting under a bed somewhere. I'll use it to take some photos of the beach. Nothing important but if it turns out the colours I'm sure will be beautiful.

traveler_101 · Mar 9, 2018

mnemosyne said:
What speed is the film?. . .
Slow speed film can be kept a very long time (decades) in cool or freeze conditions without major impact. Medium speed film (ISO100/200) should keep well at least a couple of years in a fridge, maybe a decade in a freezer. ISO400 and up I would not keep too long beyond their "process before" date. I have some Fomapan 400 film that is four years past its date and it already shows a marked rise in fog level when compared to fresh film. Still useable but not as good as fresh stuff. ISO1600/EI3200 film should be used as soon as possible. I would not bother to keep such films beyond their "process before" date.

I am very glad I asked the question. Thank you for the information. I have Ektar 100 (dated 2012) - 3 rolls - and Fuji 200 (dated 2014) - 3 rolls. Checking b&w: Tri-X/AP 400 (dated 4/2014) - 2 rolls - and T-Max 100 (dated 12/2015) - 3 rolls. Everything else is fresh.

Ces1um said:
Use them! I'd try one at a time. I've read that you should overexpose by a stop for "old" film but I have never seen criteria saying "how old" or "how was it stored" to modify that one stop rule for colour film. Unless you're shooting a wedding, baby's first steps, or some other similarly priceless moment what really have you got to lose other than the processing fee? If nothing else that's a cheap price to pay to satisfy your curiosity and for a learning experience. I have an unexposed roll of ektachrome I'm going to shoot next week. I have no idea how old it is. I know it was left in a box with a bunch of other films that had been exposed, probably sitting under a bed somewhere. I'll use it to take some photos of the beach. Nothing important but if it turns out the colours I'm sure will be beautiful.

Ok, I will try it out as soon as I have the time. I think Ektar is a better than Fuji 200 but the Ektar is two years older. I will also try developing my self with the super-duper kit I bought from Freestyle Photo

mnemosyne · Mar 10, 2018

traveler_101 said:
I am very glad I asked the question. Thank you for the information. I have Ektar 100 (dated 2012) - 3 rolls - and Fuji 200 (dated 2014) - 3 rolls. Checking b&w: Tri-X/AP 400 (dated 4/2014) - 2 rolls - and T-Max 100 (dated 12/2015) - 3 rolls. Everything else is fresh.

I see no problem, the film should still be good!

How expired are Pan F 50, expired 9 years ago

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