How do you talk to a model?

[eric]

Like Billy D. Williams.

 

[Ian Grant]

As Robert Brummit said, with Respect.

I've always afforded any models I've worked with the same respect as I would to any other person of either sex. It's about being natural and striking up a good rapport with the model so he or she is relaxed. It's also about respecting their boundaries, they decide what level they want to work to, and I know from friends who've modelled that they really don't appreciated being constantly asked to go further.

When you treat a model properly you find that they usually suggest working with you again, which is something I've done with many models, one for about 8 or 9 years. It's like Allen says above it's about being professional.

Ian

 

[Robert Brummitt]

One time, long ago, I organized a figure workshop with a local model guild. On the first day, I had the lead model discuss these very issues to the workshop attendees. It was great to hear from the source of how a model wants to be approached and feel to be apart of a team to create art. The guild was one way for models to find work and for protection.
What I do now when I see a model advertising for work on say Craigslist, I always refer that model to the guild and hope that he or she joins up because these folks are an asset to us and to the other arts programs in the community.

 

[wfe]

I respect your work but I disagree with this
suggestion. I almost never touch the people
I am photographing. The exception is when
I am shooting a view camera and a fallen
strand of hair needs to be repositioned -- and
then, only after asking permission to do so.
Otherwise, words and gestures suffice to
direct a model into position.

Part of shooting nudes successfully requires
winning the model's trust. Approaching the
model to move them into a pose is a quick
way to undermine that trust, and puts both
in an awkward place that neither ought to
occupy in a shoot.

I have to agree with Sanders on this one.

I've shot a lot of nudes and the language does change the better you know someone and the more you have worked with them. I'll even demonstrate what I want but positioning myself, clothed of course. If it's a model that I've not worked with before breasts are simply breasts. The last shoot I did was with a model I've worked with four or five times and breasts became her "girls". I've also found that honesty is the best approach.

I also don't stare at the nude model while she's nude. If we're in a conversation I make eye contact and keep it the same as I would in any focused conversation. I do my looking and composing through the lens. If I need a good look at the lighting I'll simply talk to the model and tell her that I'm looking at the light and not staring at her. I believe that a photographer / artist must treat all subjects with respect weather they are people or landscapes or whatever.

 

[gandolfi]

So it is about reapect.
everybody seems to agree on that.

what is strange though, is, that what one person states as respectful, another might not agree on..(?)

trust is also important.

But what defines trust?

 

[Ed Sukach]

There are as many "ways" to talk to a model, all part of interacting with them, as there are photographers and models.

At the beginning, I consider modeling itself to be an honorable profession - one that, in reality requires a great deal of skill and finess in personal relationships. It is interesting to SEE in writing that which I have believed so adamantly - that the photographer is really secondary in the production of the image - most of the credit for a successful photograph should be given to the model. That interview with Jock Sturges did not change any of my basic beliefs - it only reinforced them.

Yes, I think the central idea is, and should - MUST - be that of respect. Given that, the minutia and details will fall into place, naturally. I think that honesty is *very* important here ... putting on an act, or playing some sort of "game" wil have a negative effect on the relatonship - as it will with any relationship.

While we are discussing this... What/ who, in general terms, have you found to be the most difficult models to work with? With me - three (3) times (I remember them well) I've abandoned a session because it just was not "working out" - all three times involved a model fresh out of modeling school. I get the impression that they are conditioned to be confident - and they are in fact overconfident to the point where they will not allow rapport to develop. Twenty/ thirty minutes into the session - and I'll end it. It just isn't worth the time, effort and and materials to continue. Then. coffee, chatting, listening to music - anything other than photography.

Comments?

 

[Rolleiflexible]

the photographer is really secondary in the production of the image

You lost me here. The best model cannot save
an inept photographer. Peruse the modeling sites
and weep.

A good model adds value to the work, absolutely.
But it's the photographer's vision and judgments
regarding the full panoply of variables of lighting
and composition and exposure and so forth that
makes or breaks the image.

 

[Robert Brummitt]

I have a different question for this thread.
How many of you use male models? I once took a Barbara Bullock figure workshop in Carmel and there were two female models and one male. Everyone in the workshop zeroed on the two women and I had the male all to myself to photograph.
In talking to some successful figure photographers, they said that women figure images sell better then male but they liked working with the men.
What are your thoughts?

 

[Ed Sukach]

You lost me here. The best model cannot save
an inept photographer. Peruse the modeling sites
and weep.

Sorry if I caused you to beccome lost.

Read the interview with Jock Sturges, He articulates his thoughts (and I concur - wholly!) far more effectively than I can.

From the interview:

"Once working, I try never to pose my models at all. The models that know me best do this best. They understand that "pose" as it were, comes from them, from what they do naturally on their own. This is true of my best pictures. All of them. I see something organic, that has balance, that speaks to me, and I say, "Don't move!" and that's it. When I'm lucky."

- Jock Sturges

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Sorry if I caused you to beccome lost.

Read the interview with Jock Sturges, He articulates his thoughts (and I concur - wholly!) far more effectively than I can.

From the interview:

"Once working, I try never to pose my models at all. The models that know me best do this best. They understand that "pose" as it were, comes from them, from what they do naturally on their own. This is true of my best pictures. All of them. I see something organic, that has balance, that speaks to me, and I say, "Don't move!" and that's it. When I'm lucky."

- Jock Sturges

Ed, I understood you, but disagreed.

I don't think Sturges is saying that his role
is secondary to the model's work in his
photography. To the contrary, Sturges (as you
have quoted him) says quite the opposite:
When he sees something "organic, that
has balance," that "speaks" to him, he
takes the picture. It is Sturges's sense of
what is organic, what has balance, what
speaks to him, that is responsible for his
images. The model might evoke those
feelings readily, or with ease -- or not.
But that hardly makes the model responsible
for the success of Sturges's work.

I've not read the interview you quote, and
I don't know Sturges's work, but I share the
approach to photographing people described
in the quotation.

 

[zinnanti]

What/ who, in general terms, have you found to be the most difficult models to work with?

An inexperienced model is a red flag, though not a guaranteed disaster. I've been driven nuts with intermittent cell phone texting, loss of focus and just plain old boredom. As I've worked more with models, I will not do a shoot that is longer than an hour and a half or two hours - unless the vibe calls for it.

The flake factor is also huge. I used to shoot a lot of wildlife. I'm frankly at a loss as to which takes longer, waiting for the grizzly bear to show up or waiting for the model to get his/her act together.

I think the common denominator with rough modeling experiences is really beautiful people with unrealistic expectations.

Segue . . . male versus female . . . I've had better luck with male models than female models. The attached photo was shot in digital, but it's worth a peek. This is Frankie. I entitled this "Frankie at the Window." He was a such a cool cat - very easy going and just totally flamboyant. We did a six hour shoot and it was a blast. (This portrait also won a local award.) But, his energy was great.

(I know it's so warm that it looks like he has hepatitis. It's just the low res factor.)

Also, someone mentioned having the model bring a friend along. I've found that it works more often than not. No ego here. I'm good to have another set of eyes on the set spotting. It gets exhausting watching everything.

I'd love to see some other people's modeling pics.

 

[jd callow]

HUGE question..

but I am always careful on how to say things to a (female) model.

ex: I'll never ask her to spread her legs; I'll ask her to take her feet apart.. (sounds wierd in english..)

I am also trying to be honest. But avoiding the words that could take her mind the wrong way, if that makes sense..

I'll call her breasts for breasts, not tits or anything else.

I am not afraid to go to her and touch her - "mold" her in the position I like.
If I do it right, it won't be misunderstood, and so many times the model doesn't know/understand what you want her to do with her body. I'ts all about the details.

I'll tell her that I'd like to show her what I want, and then do it without "fumbeling"..

The more I know the model, and the more she knows me, the more free the wordings.

There would obviously be a huge difference when I use my girlfriend, than if I use another girl, and it is her first time posing.

I painted nudes for many years and my experience is similar to yours.

 

[gandolfi]

From the interview:

"Once working, I try never to pose my models at all.

- Jock Sturges

hi Ed.
I FINALLY actually read the interwiew (not to fast, I know, but being a Dane, I have some difficulties with some sentenses....)

I have heard this sentense in the interwiew, but interestingly enough, I have just seen the documentary about him, and here he (I think) states the same...

However, seeing him with the models, is like seeing a totally other photographer.
He certainly decides a lot. All the time, and I find this quite interesting.

He chooses the time of day - the place to take the images or not to take it - the angle of wiew, and also how the models are posed.

I have heard something like this from many other photographers, but in the end of the day, they are the photographers - not only the "shutter", so naturally, they decide almost all..

Seeing the film, and reading the interwiew is quite interesting.