How do you store bulk film?

[Simonh82]

I'm just taking my first foray into bulk loading 35mm film and have bought some HP5 and RPX 100. I normally keep my film in the freezer, with maybe a couple or rolls ready in the fridge. I've got two bulk loaders one of which has what appears to be ancient FP4 in it but that is a different matter.

My question is how do others store their bulk rolls? Do you make up a whole load of cassettes and freeze these? Do you take the bulk roll in and out of the freezer each time you load a cassette? Do you store the film in a loader or in the original packing? What precautions do you need to take against condensation when thawing the film?

I do want to store it in the freezer as I don't shoot enough to finish the roll by the expiry date and I just think it is good practice to maintain a consistent product.

Any advice grateful received.

 

[HowardDvorin]

I make up the entire roll into casettes Then I referate the casettes. I have.done this for years.

 

[MattKing]

I wouldn't freeze re-loaded cassettes.

I have always kept my bulk loaders at room temperature, even if there may be film in there that goes past its "best before" date. I just make sure that the bulk loaders weren't exposed to temperature extremes.

I might approach this differently if I bulk loaded colour film, or anything that was particularly susceptible to age deterioration, but T-Max 100 and 400 and Plus-X survive well.

 

[jim appleyard]

I store the bulk cans in the freezer, pull them out for a thaw, then load up the cassettes. Cassettes are at room temp in a camera bag. I usually go thru 100' in 6 mos. or so, but I have four different kinds of film running thru different camera bodies at the same time.

 

[NedL]

I only use BW film, but it stays in the freezer until I load it in the bulk loaders. The bulk loaders just sit in my closet, and I roll up cassettes as needed. I don't refrigerate or freeze the film once it's in the loader.

 

[mdarnton]

About 15 years ago I gave up film forever, sold all my cameras and gave my darkroom away. At that point I had bought about 100 feet of Tri-X recently, and also had a bunch of fresh TMax3200. I figured no one would want either, so I shoved them into the back of my freezer. Fast forward 10 years. I get back into film, buy a Nikon film camera to go with my Nikon digital system lenses, and haul the film out. What did I have, after 10 years in the freezer?

The TMax3200? Useless. Fogged beyond what I could tolerate. The Tri-X? A bit of fog, not too bad, certainly useable and I used it.

Prompted by this I did some research on film preservation, and here's what I found. This isn't my opinion on the issue, I stress, just what seemed to be the prevailing word from people I most credited with possibly knowing truth rather than myth: most of what happens to film happens thanks to fogging by gamma rays. Gamma rays don't notice your fridge, in fact they don't notice the earth, and pass right through it, just as easily as your fridge. That's where most fogging comes from. Faster films are more vulnerable, because it's not a chemical reaction, it's simple fogging. Chemical reactions that can be slowed by lower temperatures? Not so much. A little, but that's not the real problem.

Bottom line: freezer = superstition. I'm not saying I have the last word on this. I'm just saying that I did some honest extensive research, and that's what seemed to be the most factual representation of the process of aging and the value of freezing.

The result for me is that now I store my film where it's convenient for me, in a 99 cent reusable poly shopping bag hanging on the door in my darkroom, with all the film cassettes and cans, a roll of tape and a pair of scissors, where I can spool it up as I need it without having to worry about it thawing first, or bothering my wife in the freezer (talking about film in freezer, not wife in freezer....

The counterpoint to that is that supposedly the difference between Kodak's normal color films and their pro line was REPUTED to be that the normal color films were shipped somewhat before they were precisely ripened, passed through time through perfect ripening, and then became overripe, too much so at their expiration dates, whereas the pro films were SUPPOSEDLY ripened to perfection, frozen and shipped meant to be stored cold to lock them in to that perfect point. Whether that's true or not, I have no idea.

 

[summicron1]

mdarnton -- that may be true for b/w film, but I've got some old unrefrigerated color film here that, when I shoot it, comes out like crap. Thin and grainy and muddy. It's as if color film loses sensitivity after a while unless frozen.

On the other hand, I DID finally shoot up a 100 foot roll of ilford pan f that I bought in 1977 and had frozen until last year some time and it came out fine. Gamma rays apparently didn't bother it.

so despite what you say, I'm keeping my stock in the freezer, if for no other reason than because there is where I know it is until I put it in the bulk loader.

It's also visible proof that my wife is a saint.

 

[trythis]

I thought I read that its muons rather than gamma rays. Not really the point, I know

 

[Gerald C Koch]

It all depends on how fast you intend to use the film. If this is within a few months then store the bulk loaders at room temperature. Otherwise you can decide to refridgerate or freeze them. Never had any problems.

 

[Xmas]

Moisture eg condensation kills film faster than heat.

Only put sealed film in fridge note that some bulk is in folded over poly bag.

Snap on cassette tubs can allow moisture ingress.

 

[swchris]

most of what happens to film happens thanks to fogging by gamma rays. Gamma rays don't notice your fridge, in fact they don't notice the earth, and pass right through it, just as easily as your fridge.

From what I remember of phyics at school, gamma rays can be blocked by lead. So, theoretically, cover your fridge with lead bars, and you should be fine (or better, at least).

 

[georg16nik]

You need to get ISO 18928, last revision was in 2013. Pretty much everything you need to know is in there.
I've quoted parts from the doc on APUG years ago, so here you go:

BrianShaw, I will try summarize..

Film or paper should be stored in environment with 40 % to 60 % relative humidity (RH).

RH below 30 % might result temporarily brittleness and lead to unacceptable curl and possible emulsion cracking.
RH above 65 % can damage containers (e.g. rust), cause labels, tapes and cartons to deteriorate and encourage the growth of fungi.

Manufacturers recommend a maximum temperature of 13 ◦C for longer periods.
Manufacturers' expiration dates can be extended by storing at still lower temperatures.
25 ◦C is OK If storing for less than a month.
Infrared-sensitive films shall be stored at −18 ◦C at all times.

There is a table with temp specs for various materials and a few notes under it, the relevant one is:
For VERY LONG STORAGE of all types of photographic materials, the recommended storage temperature shall be between −18 ◦C and −20 ◦C.

Further within the ISO 18928 doc, there is storage room specs on gases, extraneous radiations, background radiation, mechanical requirements, medical x-ray film stuff, airport stuff about carry-on baggage, the well known ISO 400 barrier.
A table with temperature acclimatization for various films and paper.

Bibliography refers to SO 18906, ISO 18911, ISO 18918, ISO 18920 and some books and tech reports

And.. some other stuff

....

also, recently here (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[bsdunek]

I do it two ways. I put my 100' roll in the bulk loader and load as many cassettes as I think I'll need for a couple of months. The bulk loader goes in a freezer bag, I get as much air out as I can and put the loader in the freezer. When it's time to load more cassettes, I lit the loader sit out overnight before opening the bag.
The other way is to take the partly used 100' roll out of the loader, but it in a metal 100' can (I have several), tape the lid joint and put that in the freezer.
I've been doing this for more than 50 years and have never had film go bad, either color or black & white.
I think the whole gamma ray thing is over blown. My freezer is in the basement, so it is shielded by earth, the house, metal, etc. Don't seem to hurt my film.

 

[GRHazelton]

Seal a meal or seal a loader??

I do it two ways. I put my 100' roll in the bulk loader and load as many cassettes as I think I'll need for a couple of months. The bulk loader goes in a freezer bag, I get as much air out as I can and put the loader in the freezer. When it's time to load more cassettes, I lit the loader sit out overnight before opening the bag.
The other way is to take the partly used 100' roll out of the loader, but it in a metal 100' can (I have several), tape the lid joint and put that in the freezer.
I've been doing this for more than 50 years and have never had film go bad, either color or black & white.
I think the whole gamma ray thing is over blown. My freezer is in the basement, so it is shielded by earth, the house, metal, etc. Don't seem to hurt my film.

Hmmm. I have one of those "seal a meal" gadgets which evacuates much of the air and then heat seals the bag. I'll bet that would be a good way to prepare a bulk loader for the freezer! Just don't confuse it with the rib roast nearby!

 

[bsdunek]

Hmmm. I have one of those "seal a meal" gadgets which evacuates much of the air and then heat seals the bag. I'll bet that would be a good way to prepare a bulk loader for the freezer! Just don't confuse it with the rib roast nearby!

 

[Sirius Glass]

My bulk film is in roll and not for a bulk loader. I freeze the film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hmmm. I have one of those "seal a meal" gadgets which evacuates much of the air and then heat seals the bag. I'll bet that would be a good way to prepare a bulk loader for the freezer! Just don't confuse it with the rib roast nearby!

Even then you would have something to sink your teeth into.

 

[Simonh82]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will make up a good few cassettes and freeze them.

Film already takes up 1 of the 3 draws in our freezer and I think I would be persona non grata if I moved two bulk loaders in too.

I should be able to wiggle some space in my paper fridge to keep either the bulk loaders or cans.

 

[kreeger]

35mm film is by default a higher base level density in high speed films which adds to the problem.

In my actual experience using film stored in freezers, over the past 30+ years, films of ISO 125 or slower are very tolerant of time and the gamma ray effect especially 120 and sheet films. ISO 400 films after 5-10 years frozen will begin to show base level fog, but nothing that can't typically be compensated for with increased contrast in 120 and sheets.

I am still shooting some of the last Verichrome Pan 120 I have left which expired in 1996, and it's showing about .10 base fog increase over the original density, which is still less than most fresh Tri-X 35mm film in bulk rolls..

I would recommend you purchase some inexpensive plastic zip lock type containers used for freezing food and store the films in them, after first placing it all in zip lock bags as extra protection against moisture and accidentally thawing of freezers.

Don't ask me how I know !!!