How do you pronounce Wein cell?

Anscojohn · May 2, 2009

Q.G. said:
In German, a "w" is a "w", a "v" a "v".
Only in English comic versions of a German accent does a "v" become a "w" and wice wersa.

"Feber", John, may still be in local use in remote parts of Austria, but it's not something you need a pharmacy for.

The "ei" is explaned perfectly by Alan.

*******
Herr Oh Geh,

Well, about the time of the Wirtschaftswunder in Deutschland, and the advent of the VW (FauVeh) in the U.S.A., I was learning the received pronunciation of Neuhochdeutsch.

I do not know which product they sold in your part of German-speaking Europe, but the product we saw sold and advertised was Wicks. That would be vix, just about like the way the product name is pronounced in this neck of the woods in northern Virginia.

My poor young bride had six weeks of German before we sallied forth to Bavaria for a year. She spoke Italian, some Spanish, some French, had Latin and Ancient Greek, but not ze Cherrmen, and most certainly, not Bayrisch.

2F/2F · May 2, 2009

Just like in any language, there are different ways to say things. For example, in some parts of Germany (northern, I believe), Ich is pronounced as if it was spelled Ysh. Therefore, since it is a proper name (assuming that is the source of the name of the product...and I have no idea why else it would have such a crappy name), it really depends on how the owner pronounces his or her name. He or she may not even be German any more, but may simply be of German descent.

If you apply by the book pronunciation to the word, here is a little shortcut for English speakers pronouncing German words. I learned it in high school German class. Whenever there is a ie or an ei in a German word, it is pronounced like the last letter in the set is pronounced in English. Therefore, if it is ei, it rhymes with the English letter I, and if it is ie, it rhymes with the English letter E.

So, Wien (the capital of Austria) is pronounced Vēn in German. Wein (the battery company) would be pronounced Vīn in German. Same for Schneider, Leitz, Zeiss, etc.

Personally, I halfway butcher the German pronunciation and say Wīn., since people look at me like I'm a nutcase if I pull out the German pronunciation.

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

alanrockwood said:
One refinement on the German "w" and "v". A German "w" is generally pronounced like and English "v" and a German "v" is generally pronounced like an English "f".

One of the beauties of German is that the pronunciation is very regular. Unlike English, if you have a German word spelled out you can almost always pronounce it correctly, assuming you have good German pronunciation.

Well, i have probably heard millions of Germans speak German (hear it everyday. Why, even when writing these replies i hear German "w"s being pronounced as "w"s, "v"s as "v"s!), and never was a "w" pronounced as "v".
Nor an "v" quite as an "f", for that matter.

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

Anscojohn said:
Well, about the time of the Wirtschaftswunder in Deutschland, and the advent of the VW (FauVeh) in the U.S.A., I was learning the received pronunciation of Neuhochdeutsch.

The joke must have been on you.
"FauVeh" is not the received nor correct pronunciation.

The thing i was alluding to re pharmacy and all that was not the rub on or inhale stuff, but the february you were needing the thing for.

But speaking of Wicks, it is indeed pronounced with a "W" in Germany.
Just like the less sociable German word "Wickser"*.
Which is even less sociable than a "fixer" (in pharmacy and all that context).

*(For those of you guessing: "Wickser" shares a few letters with an English word of the same meaning. Those letters, in the right order, are "w", "k" and "er".
And no, it is not someone using "Wicks".)

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

2F/2F said:
Personally, I halfway butcher the German pronunciation and say Wīn., since people look at me like I'm a nutcase if I pull out the German pronunciation.

There's a clue in there ...

benjiboy · May 2, 2009

How do I pronounce "Wien cell " ? , with great difficulty.

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

benjiboy said:
How do I pronounce "Wien cell " ? , with great difficulty.

And the same for "Wein cell".

Mick Fagan · May 2, 2009

I agree with Ansco John. All of the German people I have heard talking about their VW cars, pronounce them as:- FauVeh.

That is how my wife who was a school teacher in Germany speaks it. It is how her friends living in Germany who speak high German, pronounce it. I am not talking about when they are speaking English, I'm talking about when they are speaking German.

My Brother in-law's name is Werner, he pronounces it Verner, he speaks limited English, so I'm assuming he knows how to say his name in German. He also says FauVeh.

Mick.

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

Should i give up?
No. I'll invite you to visit Germany instead, to cleanse you of these comedy accent preconceptions.

Meanwhile, feast your ears on any one of these.
Take the comedy accent wax out of your ears, and just listen.

2F/2F · May 2, 2009

Dead Link Removed

Listen to the second word, which is wein.

...and read this: Dead Link Removed.

Vs in German *do not* sound like Ws in English. That is crazy. Whoever thinks that has been watching too much Star Trek, and thinks that Chekov is supposed to be German. However, Ws in German do sound like Vs in English, according to any German-speaking person (native or learned) who has ever advised me on pronunciation.

Ws in German, of course, do not sound like Vs in German...but like Vs in English.

There is no V in Wein Cell, so let us just forget about that letter and how it sounds. If you really must know, the page to which I linked gives a nice and brief explanation: The lips do the same thing for F and V, but the vocal chords do different things.

Mick Fagan · May 2, 2009

I visit Germany often, the last trip was in December 2008 through to mid January 2009.

I hob nob when in Germany as most of the relatives and their friends are Doctors, medical specialists, professors, engineers, teachers and such. Plus virtually all of the nieces and nephews of my wife are university educated, and I'm not talking about an arts degree.

They speak exactly like 2F/2F's audio tape.

I don't require another trip at this stage, thank you very much.

Mick.

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

No, no.
"W"s in German also sound like "w"s in English.
Just listen to any of the radio links. There you'll hear German as it is spoken by Germans.

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

Mick Fagan said:
They speak exactly like 2F/2F's audio tape.

I don't require another trip at this stage, thank you very much.

Now i give up ... If you don't want to learn, you just don't.

Just one final hint: notice how the "Vee have vays to make you talk!" misconception is only put forward by English speaking APUGers.

Mick Fagan · May 2, 2009

Well I just went to Kinder Radio, I don't think you are going to like it, but, it is FauVeh.

Mick.

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

Don't just hear what you expect to hear, Mick.
Listen!

(Dang! I forgot that i gave up on you and your German skills! )

2F/2F · May 2, 2009

Q.G. said:
Just one final hint: notice how the "Vee have vays to make you talk!" misconception is only put forward by English speaking APUGers.

No! No! No! It is: "Ve haf vays of making you talk!" Get it straight, damnit.

Mick Fagan · May 2, 2009

QG, the collective wisdom of the two German house guests, plus that of my wife, is that you are possibly not German.

We have finished dinner here (abend essen) and this thread is the current discussion in the lounge, a couple of us listened to Kinder Radio via your link, where they speak to children very much like they do (or did) in Sesame Street. I also watched Sesam Strasse (spelling) 25 years ago in Germany, great way to get a handle on pronunciation.

Mick.

Mick Fagan · May 2, 2009

QG, German people do not say either, ve or vee. When talking about themselves it would be, wir, I'll let you figure out the way it is spoken, I know

I get the impression that you seem to be concerned about how German people speak when speaking English.

We are actually discussing in English, how a German word is spoken, by a German person, in German! Kapisch?

Mick.

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

Very astute, Mick! I am indeed not German, Mick.
But don't get your hopes up.

If you want to play the "my background is better suited to get the real deal" game:
I have been hearing Germans speak German day in day out for half a century. On radio, television, and in the flesh. (The millions i mentioned earlier).
And zey vere not reztraint by German Höflichkeit (see! i can use a German word too! ), trying to awoid ovvending zeir host by agreeing to vhatewer he vants them to agree to.

Mick Fagan · May 2, 2009

I don't know what the "Real Deal" is.

I now know what I believe your APUG name stands for, "Quasi German".

Enough, is enough.

Mick.

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

Mick Fagan said:
QG, German people do not say either, ve or vee. When talking about themselves it would be, wir, I'll let you figure out the way it is spoken, I know

So do i.

I get the impression that you seem to be concerned about how German people speak when speaking English.

We are actually discussing in English, how a German word is spoken, by a German person, in German! Kapisch?

Now that's what you think.
You haven't picked up the many "English comic accent" clues i have strewn about in this thread.

We are discussing how English speaking people, like you, think (!) that German people speak German.

("Kapisch", by the way, could be Ruhrpott-Deutsch of Italian abstraction. There are many people of Italian descent in the Pott. Just like in Australia, i gather.
But "kapito", or "kapischo" would be more common, but also isn't quite.
You perhaps meant "kapiert?" ).

AgX · May 2, 2009

Q.G. said:
In German, a "w" is a "w", a "v" a "v".
Only in English comic versions of a German accent does a "v" become a "w" and wice wersa.

Seemingly I'm the only German around.

So in general you are right, but many Germans do not follow the rules (hard to believe...)

Especially with names there is some uncertainty whether to pronounce the `v´ as (german) `v´ or `w´. And for some `v´-names which definitely must be pronounced as `v´ the majority uses the `w´-pronunciation.

In other cases as some forms of the diphthong `ae´ people forget about its origin and pronounce it wrongly `ä´ as this can also be written as `ae´. with the result that the wrong form becomes commonly accepted.

Concerning Wein: It is hard to say; being an North-American company (to my understanding) they will have adapted the pronunciation most probably.
The same for Porsche-USA.

Another example would be AGFA. People at AGFA itself pronounce it the flemish, not the original german way.

So, in such cases who is to say what is right and what is wrong?

luxikon · May 2, 2009

The 'second German around' confirms everything Mick Fagan has written. Especially the 'v' is pronounced as 'vau' when spelled - different from pronunciation in a complete word where it can be voiced or voiceless. Whereas 'w' can only be pronounces voiced.

nicefor88 · May 2, 2009

and no more apfelstrudel;;;
Wein is pronounced like "why-nn" in western europe except Germany... ach za tees normahll

Q.G. · May 2, 2009

Vell ...

Ich bin gespannt vo denn bloß alle die Villies, die Wolkers, die Valltrauts, die Weronicas und die Verners zu finden sind.
Vann haben die zuletzt den Hahn aufgedreht um ein Glas Vasser zu trinken? Oder eine Flasche entkorkt um ein Glas Vein geniessen zu können? Ein Veissbier beim Vildbraten genossen?
Viewiel Alkohol muss man überhaupt trinken damit man so spricht?

Habe schon manches erlebt, aber so vas... Vahnsinn!

How do you pronounce Wein cell?

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