How do you meter with your meterless Leica?

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 22, 2014

Metraphot attachment meter, iPhone meter app, or Gossen Luna Pro (which I use with all my cameras).

Or Sunny 16, of course, which is most often more than enough for walking around shooting with the M2. I like not using a meter. It trains the eye to really 'see' the light.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 22, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Metraphot attachment meter, iPhone meter app, or Gossen Luna Pro (which I use with all my cameras).

Or Sunny 16, of course, which is most often more than enough for walking around shooting with the M2. I like not using a meter. It trains the eye to really 'see' the light.

One of the few really good reasons to not use a meter IMHO.
I can make surprisingly accurate cuts on a lathe or mill without measuring.
But when I need the part to be right the first (and possibly only) time, I consult carefully with Mr. Starrett.

markaudacity · Apr 23, 2014

I check the meter app on my phone and then decide how much to ignore it based on how the light looks. Tri-X is very forgiving.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 23, 2014

markaudacity said:
I check the meter app on my phone and then decide how much to ignore it based on how the light looks. Tri-X is very forgiving.

Now there's the issue right in a nutshell. "Negative film is very forgiving". Well, it isn't always. Oh, you'll get a printable negative as long as you're within a few stops, BUT - if you want detail in these shadows, and those highlights need to retain texture - there's only one correct exposure.
Certain films are more forgiving than others, the Ilford chromogenic film seems to give better-than-decent albeit rather dense negatives at EI 40!! (it's rated at 400). So with a film like this you just need to worry about getting enough light on it. Color negative film is very forgiving of overexposure as well. Granted this thread is in the context of 35mm, but when using sheet film in the larger sizes, waste becomes very expensive rather rapidly.

removed account4 · Apr 23, 2014

hi EvH

i know what you mean, but sometimes you shoot sheet film, you process it and it is so dense ( from over exposure and or over development )
that you can't see the image on the negative, even with a floodlight behind the film .. but you figure out a way to print it
and the highlights and textures and everything else are still there ...
the attached images were just like that ( and handfuls of others )
i just contact printed them on RC paper with a 300W bulb as i would have done for an azo print ..
the only problem i ran into was tmy ( or was it tmx? ) had a uv blocking layer so my exposures weren't 20 seconds or 15 seconds
but 45 seconds or a minute ( or longer )
... i agree with what you said though, it is easier to make a print using film that had a "normal" exposure
and often times the only way to get a "normal" exposure is to use a meter

... if these were 35mm frames that i had to enlarge,
i wouldn't have bothered,

vpwphoto · Apr 23, 2014

kivis said:
Question goes for really any meterless camera. I use an app on my iPhone (Pocket Light Meter), but I am trying to train myself to use the "force within". You know, try to remember or guess what the reading would be. Not that good at it yet. What are others doing? A real meter? Please be specific as I still, after all these years am wishing to learn more what others do.

The "force within" only comes with EXPERIENCE, and works better with negative film rather than slides. But my force is strong with either.

I rely on my handy Minolta IV meter for everything I shoot, wether I was using a meter-less Hasselblad, or full on Nikon N90s.

Although with the D700 and D800 I just look at the histogram and image and don't mess with a meter with the exception in the studio to meter ratios of flash.

I walk around with meter-less Canon VT whatever and BW neg film I often just say... oh it's a bright cloudy day... F8 @ 250 will work. this alley see seems dark (same day). Lets go to f5.5 at 125 or enve a 60th. It's fun, but if it is A PAYING customer.. I HAVE A METER!!!

vpwphoto · Apr 23, 2014

benjiboy said:
I always carry a meter, guesswork is foolishness, and it avoids time , effort, and expense of useless exposures

Right on! ^^^

Although, when looking through a lens and you see the sun highlighting something and stuff you like on the shadow side, shooting 100 speed chrome let's see I use to say 1000 @f4 for the sun... open up a stop on the lens and slow the shutter a stop and a third, and bingo. (or OH! similar seen, but there is white concrete tossing some light into the shadows or a glass building reflecting light in... just open a half stop or 3/4 over the base of 1000 f4.. i shot a lot of wide aperture stuff or near to it with a 300 2.8)
Nice fall photo of kids walking on college campus... that is how I used to roll photographing out-doors on a sunny day... even with the N90s meter which I ignored a lot.

Chan Tran · Apr 23, 2014

As in my first post I do use a meter from time to time. But sometimes it's cumbersome to carry a meter so I can guess the exposure well enough. Well enough that is better than many lousy light meters.

removed account4 · Apr 23, 2014

sorry to edit your post !

vpwphoto said:
T It's fun, but if it is A PAYING customer.. I HAVE A METER!!!

exactly !
its fun, but if it is a paying customer i use a meter ( and it often times says what my onboard computer thinks it will be )

RalphLambrecht · Apr 23, 2014

R.Gould said:
Sekonic flashmate

I also use either'sunny16' or a Gossen Digisixwith my Mamiya6.but mostly the former over the latter.I find it amazing how accurate it really isbut maybe living in Florida gives me that advantage.I even used it for the recent lunar eclipse and it worked great for ZoneV lunar soil.

markaudacity · Apr 23, 2014

There may be only one perfectly-correct exposure, but a perfect exposure of a passed moment is useless.

I guess it depends on what you're shooting, too. I do mostly street, so all I care about is the gesture (and getting focus as close as possible). One of my best images is on Tri-X overexposed by four stops because I neglected to re-set my camera's ISO. Would it have been better if it was correctly exposed? Maybe so. But the moment is there.

vpwphoto · Apr 23, 2014

markaudacity said:
There may be only one perfectly-correct exposure, but a perfect exposure of a passed moment is useless.

Right on! ^^^

On this note, I crack up remembering reading Ansel Adams' description of how he arrived at the "Moonrise Hernandez" photograph. Very dramatic description in one of his books. Now that I am seasoned... I am a little less impressed with the drama he wrote about, although I certainly understand the urgency. I've had similar "fleeting moments" presented, you gotta move, or if using roll-film non bracketing in this case a "false economy".

omaha · Apr 23, 2014

markaudacity said:
There may be only one perfectly-correct exposure, but a perfect exposure of a passed moment is useless.

Brilliant.

markaudacity · Apr 23, 2014

Oh, I forgot about bracketing. If I'm not sure of the light (ie not Sunny 16) and I really want the shot, I will usually take one frame at my guessed exposure and another that's burned a stop.

cliveh · Apr 23, 2014

kivis said:
Question goes for really any meterless camera. I use an app on my iPhone (Pocket Light Meter), but I am trying to train myself to use the "force within". You know, try to remember or guess what the reading would be. Not that good at it yet. What are others doing? A real meter? Please be specific as I still, after all these years am wishing to learn more what others do.

I like the "force within" technique.

vpwphoto · Apr 23, 2014

markaudacity said:
Oh, I forgot about bracketing. If I'm not sure of the light (ie not Sunny 16) and I really want the shot, I will usually take one frame at my guessed exposure and another that's burned a stop.

With BW I have never made a good print from a "thin" negative, but have been amazed at what I can get from a 4-5 stop over negatives.
I had the spring break in a Nikkor 35mm 1.4, I shot 3 assignments (black and white) and had to make prints or re-shoot. I made prints and one sticks out in my mind's eye as damn good.

markaudacity · Apr 23, 2014

Same. If the silver didn't react, it didn't react, but you can almost always pump more light through thick negs. ^_^

vpwphoto · Apr 23, 2014

^^^ also the start of my love of wide aperture work!

Mainecoonmaniac · Apr 23, 2014

Metering without a meter is like fighting without fighting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow

Chan Tran · Apr 23, 2014

How accurate should the meter be? And I mean accurate not whether or not it gives you the exposure you want.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 23, 2014

vpwphoto said:
With BW I have never made a good print from a "thin" negative, but have been amazed at what I can get from a 4-5 stop over negatives.
I had the spring break in a Nikkor 35mm 1.4, I shot 3 assignments (black and white) and had to make prints or re-shoot. I made prints and one sticks out in my mind's eye as damn good.

Yep indeed, when in doubt, overexpose. When I shoot without metering, I always shoot what I think is one or two stops over. The prints coming from overexposed negatives are not a problem at all, and sometimes even better than normally exposed.

MattKing · Apr 24, 2014

I find that I work best when I allow my "inner" meter to review and check the readings I get from my camera or hand-held meter.

A sensitivity to both the quantity and the quality of light is an important tool for photographers.

Regular Rod · Apr 24, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Yep indeed, when in doubt, overexpose. When I shoot without metering, I always shoot what I think is one or two stops over. The prints coming from overexposed negatives are not a problem at all, and sometimes even better than normally exposed.

Especially if you happen to use a compensating developer...

RR

darkosaric · Apr 24, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Yep indeed, when in doubt, overexpose. When I shoot without metering, I always shoot what I think is one or two stops over. The prints coming from overexposed negatives are not a problem at all, and sometimes even better than normally exposed.

+1 for overexpose in doubt.

When I shoot without meter (Leica M3 or with some toy cameras like Diana) - overexpose and develop in Rodinal 1+100 semi-stand 1 hour.

Xmas · Apr 24, 2014

darkosaric said:
+1 for overexpose in doubt.

When I shoot without meter (Leica M3 or with some toy cameras like Diana) - overexpose and develop in Rodinal 1+100 semi-stand 1 hour.

Ditto except full stand.
If low contrast derate film ISO /4!
If contrasty meter the zone1 shadows.
Always carry a Weston as much for the zone calculator as the photocell. Easy to take quick incident reading of scale if you recall the previous number.
It is a lot easier burning in skies, but wont work with scanners...
Frequently use CanonP or F2/DE-1

How do you meter with your meterless Leica?

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