How do you expose a scene that is 50% Black and 50% White

ted_smith · May 26, 2008

I've got myself confused, so a quick question :

You're a Nikon user (Nikon F80 specifically) and you're photographing a dog who's 50% black, 50% white. You're filling the frame with him (so there's nothing much else in the scene other than black and white). Where from, and how, do you do your meter reading when using Black and White film (Ilford FP4, specifically)?

1) Do you use matrix metering? If so, do you under or over expose the overall scene? If so, which is it and how do you ensure the blacks are black and the whites are white as opposed to a shift towards 18% grey for both or a detrimental shift towards one or the other for either black or white?

2) Or do you use centre-weighted metering? If so, what do you centre weight off? His white chest, or black body? For either, how do you ensure the other colour is properly exposed and coloured correctly?

3) Or do you spot meter off his white chest or black body? Again, how do you ensure the other is properly exposed?

I might add that I have not yet tried this...I'm basing my experiences on less than perfect digital exposures but I don't want to waste a roll of Ilford FP4 in order to find out where I've gone wrong!

Ted

Les McLean · May 26, 2008

You expose for the shadows to ensure that there is sufficient information in the blacks to show the dogs hair on the final print. You determine the contrast range of the subject and if it is more than 5 stops you reduce development by 25% to reduce density in the highlight area of the negative which will reduce overall contrast. Having done that the negative should print without too many problems on a grade 2 or 3 paper. This is the basis of the old old photo saying "expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights".

Frank Szabo · May 26, 2008

Meter the black and close down 2 stops or meter the white and open 2 stops. That's only a start point.

Understand that a light meter can't see color - it sees only tones. Metering on the white will place the hound's hair on zone 5 as will metering the black will also give a reading that will place the film's exposure to zone 5. These readings will be different.

Opening two from the white reading will give the film a high exposure but there will be a tad of detail. Close two from the black reading will do the opposite but still provide a bit of detail.

Once the negative is made, then you can decide on the paper grade but if you don't have the detail on the negative you want, no paper will bring it out - you get to draw stuff with a pencil.

Hope this answers what you were asking.

vdonovan · May 26, 2008

I would spot meter the black body and then underexpose two or two-and-a-half stops from the meter reading. This will make sure you get some shadow detail. I would also spot meter the white bit, just to see where it will fall. If it's three or four stops brighter than the black bit, you'll have an easy-to-print negative.

Example: I spot meter the body. The meter says f/4 @ 250th. So my exposure would be f/8 @ 250th. Now check the white area. If the meter says f/16@250th (or maybe a little brighter depending on the dog and the light) I'm in good shape. If the meter says less (f/8@250th for example) I might want to develop longer for higher contrast, or I'll have to use a higher contrast filter in printing.

fschifano · May 26, 2008

If you have matrix metering available to you, by all means use it. I'm familiar with the Nikon matrix meters and they are quite good. There is no need to second guess it more than 90% of the time. Expose a frame at the suggested reading for box speed, and make additional exposures at +1/3, +2/3, and +1 stop. Use the settingthat gives you adequate detail with the minimum amount of exposure. Bracketing for under exposure is pointless. You'll learn only that it doesn't work unless you like empty, or nearly so, shadow values. Develop as normal. If contrast is too high, then cut back a little next time around. Do the opposite if the contrast is too low.

It ain't that hard. Soon you'll get the hang of it.

Pinholemaster · May 26, 2008

I'd meter off your hand which should be in the same light as the dog.

Extend your arm full length.

Focus on the back of your hand, and take a meter reading. Center-weighted, matrix or spot, doesn't matter.

Since you are Caucasian, open up one full f/stop, because Caucasian skin tone is usually one stop brighter than 18% gray.

Then shoot away, but remember to bracket your exposures a bit.

Ian Tindale · May 26, 2008

vdonovan, - so what you're saying is, to photograph a Dalmatian, one should use a spot meter?

vdonovan · May 26, 2008

Hoboy, I wish I'd thought of that. Clearly we have discovered one of the inviolable rules of photography: when shooting a Dalmation, you MUST use a spot meter.

blaze-on · May 26, 2008

There's a 50-50 chance to get the exposure right at least

waynecrider · May 26, 2008

Three ways to go. 1. incident metering; 2. gray card; 3 Camera meter.

I own the N80 and in this case would use either the centerweighted or spot metering pattern depending on the light the dog is in and how much of the background is taken into consideration. The spot btw isn't a true hand meter spot size but actually a little larger so take care using it.
Matrix metering will take the background into consideration for the shutter/aperture value. It's ok if the background is bright and important, and your using flash to fill a darker subject as part of the scene, or if the subject and background is in the same light. If the subject is lit stronger then the background meter the subject. When using any camera (especially older ones) that has a metering pattern outlined in the viewfinder, I split the viewfinder/metering pattern (filled and up close if need be) with the extremes if I can. In your case that means 50% white and 50% black. This will be influenced if using the centerweighted pattern and needing to take the background into consideration. Your other better option is to set the camera to manual metering and read the value on the scale at the bottom. Depending on which color you spot meter off of, you'll change either the aperture or shutter speed till the LED is centered. Once centered I'd probably spot meter the other color and split it the way I'd want to go; A little lighter or darker depending on the readings I get. It's actually faster to do then say.
Since your shooting 35mm, take three shots different ways and learn.

df cardwell · May 26, 2008

Fix the dog in post.

bjorke · May 26, 2008

Lee L · May 27, 2008

df cardwell said:
Fix the dog in post.

I thought you had to fix the dog before adopting.

Do you recommend alkaline fixer?

Lee

Frank Szabo · May 27, 2008

Lee L said:
I thought you had to fix the dog before adopting.

Do you recommend alkaline fixer?

Lee

I'll bet that would hurt - ouch!

2F/2F · May 27, 2008

If the metered area is truly filled with 50% of each, you can go with exactly what the meter says, and get an exposure that will most likely let you print the pic the way you want it. If you have a high contrast film like Pan F, you might want to give twice as much exposure. If you have a low contrast film like HP5 or Delta 3200, you might want to give half as much exposure and develop 25% more.

However, more technically speaking, the dog is not "truly" black or "truly" white. If you were to take a spot meter to each color (or get close with a wider meter), you would know exactly what the difference between them is. Probably not 10 stops, as it would be if they were "truly" black/white. Probably not even five stops, unless you are in bright direct light.

So, the "technical" answer(s), sans tonal placement: 1. meter a grey card in the same light as the dog, or 2. use an incident light meter. (This is equivalent to #1.)

But then again, this is usually one of the best options for any metering question, so no surprises here.

If I had time, I would place the black. I would meter just a black area and underexpose that reading by 2 stops if I wanted detail (or wanted to at least give myself the option of printing detail there later), and 3 stops if I just wanted texture, and knew for sure that that "texture" alone in the blacks was enough to get the print I envisioned.

Honestly, in practice, I'd just set an exposure for the overall lighting situation based on experience, and forget about the in-camera reflected meter, except perhaps as a rough self check. Catching the right moment and getting it in focus would be more of a concern/challenge than how to expose.

KD5NRH · May 27, 2008

vdonovan said:
Hoboy, I wish I'd thought of that. Clearly we have discovered one of the inviolable rules of photography: when shooting a Dalmation, you MUST use a spot meter.

Great, now I'll never be able to photograph zebras.

Bob F. · May 27, 2008

Zebras are easy: take a spot metering off the inside of its left nostril. Make a note to place this on Zone II.4 (Zone II.IV ?). Take another reading off the highlight on its right rear hoof and make a note to place this on Zone VII.8. Now, switch your meter to read lux in incident mode (or use another meter) to find the absolute intensity of the sun hitting your target. Make a note of this value, we need to convert it later on to candles per square furlong. Rummage around in your bag for your calculator, or preferably a laptop, and use the following set of formulas to calculate... Hang on... Where's the b!**&y zebra gone???...

FWIW, I would spot-meter off the black fur and close down 2 stops as others have suggested (bearing in mind that I rate FP4+ at an EI of 80 in ID-11).

Cheers, Bob.

P.S. another tip for photographing dogs: use a Golden retriever with an 18% reflective coat...

Dave Miller · May 27, 2008

Shoot the dog first. That way it won't run off before you get the picture.

DBP · May 27, 2008

Last time I needed to shoot a black dog I metered the grass, having heard long ago that it was approximately a midtone.

pentaxuser · May 27, 2008

DBP said:
Last time I needed to shoot a black dog I metered the grass, having heard long ago that it was approximately a midtone.

No. Just shoot the dog and be quick.Metering the grass won't prevent the dog runnning off. Check out Dave Miller's advice. It's the most practical I've seen. Well apart from the opening bit of BobF's which is superb and so straightforward. Then he goes and spoils it with some sort of " practical shortcut" which will never do.

pentaxuser

vdonovan · May 27, 2008

KD5NRH said:
Great, now I'll never be able to photograph zebras.

Use a test strip? No, I guess that's just for printing...

David A. Goldfarb · May 27, 2008

I would do it more or less the way Les describes in the first response, using B&W neg film.

Murray@uptowngallery · May 27, 2008

I didn't read all the thread- did anyone suggest mutt-tricks metering?

Frank Szabo · May 27, 2008

KD5NRH said:
Great, now I'll never be able to photograph zebras.

Sure you can - just bring your meter and extra batteries for it.

sanking · May 28, 2008

An incident reading with the lens of the camera pointed toward the subject, and the cone of the meter pointed toward the lens of the camera, is the way I would do it.

Sandy King

How do you expose a scene that is 50% Black and 50% White

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