how do you deal with low contrast situations that need more contrast?

[markbarendt]

Assuming that:
1. I'm not underexposing my film
2. I've decided how I want the final print to look and N+ something is desired...

Monk,

These are probably the two most important concepts to grab onto.

1. Get enough exposure. You seem to get this idea in spades. Your "expose shadows (where you want detail) in zone IV" statement seems to put you in the super-overkill camp on this topic. You are actually shooting at an exposure level where many zoners and the Kodak and Ilford data sheets are suggesting minus/pull development. (That's not what I'm suggesting.)

Essentially your exposure standard means you are rating an ISO 400 speed film at about EI 100. (Here's the math, ZS testing normally gets you close to 1/2 box speed so 400 film is rated at 200, then moving the shadow standard from Zone III to IV moves your EI from 200 to 100)

Now the ISO standard already included a safety factor of about a stop for normal scenes so now you have roughly a 3-stop safety factor, for a low contrast scene your safety factor is probably closer to 4-stops. That's why I'm saying you are in the super-overkill camp. If this is all true you could reduce exposure 2 stops and still have extra shadow detail for most shots.

What I'm hoping you are starting to see here is that how you expose and how you develop are and should remain different decisions. They are not linked. Development changes are a printing control not a good film speed control.

2. Deciding how you want your prints to look is a good reason to adjust development, or not. What I have found over time is that normal print contrast works for me regardless of whether the scene is high or low contrast. Ian's examples are good, I would not really want to make them more or less contrasty. Regardless of the camera exposure level I would not adjust my development.

What I have found for myself is that if I develop my films normally they typically print at the contrast rate I prefer, if I want more shadow detail I dodge, if more highlight detail is needed I burn.

The way I figured this out was that, generally, when I pulled film development I had to use harder paper grades than normal to get the print "right", when I pushed I had to use softer paper grades to fix things, when I developed normally prints rarely needed print contrast adjustments.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I, too, am with Mark on this one.

 

[monk]

Monk,

These are probably the two most important concepts to grab onto.

1. Get enough exposure. You seem to get this idea in spades. Your "expose shadows (where you want detail) in zone IV" statement seems to put you in the super-overkill camp on this topic. You are actually shooting at an exposure level where many zoners and the Kodak and Ilford data sheets are suggesting minus/pull development. (That's not what I'm suggesting.)

Essentially your exposure standard means you are rating an ISO 400 speed film at about EI 100. (Here's the math, ZS testing normally gets you close to 1/2 box speed so 400 film is rated at 200, then moving the shadow standard from Zone III to IV moves your EI from 200 to 100)

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[/HR

]is this what i do wrong?or this is what i should do?i dont really get this,im RRReally sorry!!
yes,i rate my 400 film 200,and III goes to IV,so i guess you mean i do this..

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Now the ISO standard already included a safety factor of about a stop for normal scenes so now you have roughly a 3-stop safety factor, for a low contrast scene your safety factor is probably closer to 4-stops. That's why I'm saying you are in the super-overkill camp. If this is all true you could reduce exposure 2 stops and still have extra shadow detail for most shots.

What I'm hoping you are starting to see here is that how you expose and how you develop are and should remain different decisions. They are not linked. Development changes are a printing control not a good film speed control.

---

so you mean(if i got it right)whatever i do,i shouldnt reduce exposure.
cause bad things are going to happen to me

---

2. Deciding how you want your prints to look is a good reason to adjust development, or not. What I have found over time is that normal print contrast works for me regardless of whether the scene is high or low contrast. Ian's examples are good, I would not really want to make them more or less contrasty. Regardless of the camera exposure level I would not adjust my development.

What I have found for myself is that if I develop my films normally they typically print at the contrast rate I prefer, if I want more shadow detail I dodge, if more highlight detail is needed I burn.

The way I figured this out was that, generally, when I pulled film development I had to use harder paper grades than normal to get the print "right", when I pushed I had to use softer paper grades to fix things, when I developed normally prints rarely needed print contrast adjustments.

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Thanks Mark!and Everyone here!

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..

 

[markbarendt]

is this what i do wrong?or this is what i should do?i dont really get this,im RRReally sorry!!
yes,i rate my 400 film 200,and III goes to IV,so i guess you mean i do this..

Yep, sure sounds like you do.

so you mean(if i got it right)whatever i do,i shouldnt reduce exposure.
cause bad things are going to happen to me

No.

I think that for most shots you could probably reduce your exposure by two full stops and still get great prints with plenty of shadow detail. You should test that for yourself.