How do I purposely achieve halation with black and white film?

[koraks]

Fomapan (in my experience) isn't that film.

Is your experience with the 35mm versions specifically? I'm asking because the 35mm is a totally different product than the larger versions specifically in terms of halation. The Fomapan films aren't particularly prone (esp. 100, 200 & 400) to halation in 120 and sheet film format, but in 35mm, it's a whole different ballgame. I can assure you that in 35mm, Fomapan films halate very strongly.

 

[loccdor]

You don't need to use a whole new camera and don't even necessarily need to use a different lens.

It depends on what you want. Some of this can be achieved with filters. But as others said, this has similarities to, but is different from, halation.

If you have a cheap clear filter you don't need, try scratching it up and then looking through your camera at light sources. Keep scratching it until you're getting the right intensity for what you want to do.

 

[Arthurwg]

I'm familiar with the system

Xpan as well.

 

[Homebrewmess]

If the film has an effective antihalation layer, a chrome plated pressure plate won't cause problems.

If you actually want halation as opposed to flare (overall loss of contrast due to light scattering within the lens or inside the camera), you need a film with little or no antihalation layer. Fomapan (in my experience) isn't that film. If you don't mind spending the money for color and its processing, Cinestill's rebranded Vision3 stocks have *no* antihalation (though that will change soon as Kodak switches from remjet, which Cinestill removes or pays Kodak to leave off, to a more modern antihalation layer).

If it needs to be black and white, you'll probably be best off with a duplicating stock (very slow films, but not intended for high contrast subjects since they're contact printed from a cine negative strip), though you might try a roll of Cinestill developed in B&W chemistry (it'll have a strong orange mask that makes it hard to print in the darkroom, but it still scans okay). Film Photography Project has a number of these slow duplicating stocks, and if you give them a call or email, they can probably tell you which ones have the "worst" halation.

Thank you for the advice, I'll look into this stuff and ask around town. I hope to update you guys soon with my results soon.
If I were to enlarge a colour negative (like the vision3) onto black and white paper would you recommend using a red/green/yellow filter to increase my contrast? I could try all of them regardless but I figure its best to ask for advice in an uncharted area like this

 

[koraks]

If I were to enlarge a colour negative (like the vision3) onto black and white paper would you recommend using a red/green/yellow filter to increase my contrast?

I wouldn't recommend this; the results are generally lackluster and exposure times for the prints are long due to the orange mask. The exception would be (partially) maskless films like Phoenix, but here you'd still have to deal with the issue of the spectral response of the paper, which just isn't very suitable for color negatives. If you decide to go this route, you could overdevelop the color film (so you'd need to develop it at home, which isn't very difficult) to get more contrast in the negative.

I'd frankly just wait until the other camera is back and load your Foma 400 into it. Or pick up another 35mm camera that doesn't do the spooling thing your Rebel does; most cameras don't do this and will accept these Foma rolls just fine.

Btw, come to think of it - the Foma film you're using, does it indeed come in the metal cassettes, or the two-part plastic ones? I'm asking because my niece uses a Canon Rebel of the kind that spools up the entire film before photographing it back into the cassette, and she's using Fomapan 400 in metal cassettes without apparent transport problems.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I can assure you that in 35mm, Fomapan films halate very strongly.

I've shot a couple bulk rolls of .EDU Ultra (Fomapan without the edge printing) over the last twenty years and never noticed halation -- but I don't shoot a lot of bright light sources in dim scenes...

 

[Homebrewmess]

Btw, come to think of it - the Foma film you're using, does it indeed come in the metal cassettes, or the two-part plastic ones? I'm asking because my niece uses a Canon Rebel of the kind that spools up the entire film before photographing it back into the cassette, and she's using Fomapan 400 in metal cassettes without apparent transport problems.

So it does come in an al metal case, I thought that might be a problem because other cassettes I use appear to be plastic with metal components that allow to camera to tell the iso. though I figure I am wrong on this thought. Thanks for letting me know about your niece's camera hat actually is a bit reassuring because it lets me know that it is just my camera that is funky. I'll wait until my other camera is back to me to do this like you suggest, its even a camera from the 50s so I imagine it is lacking in the lense filters and I might get artsy looks because of that.

I wouldn't recommend this; the results are generally lackluster and exposure times for the prints are long due to the orange mask. The exception would be (partially) maskless films like Phoenix, but here you'd still have to deal with the issue of the spectral response of the paper, which just isn't very suitable for color negatives. If you decide to go this route, you could overdevelop the color film (so you'd need to develop it at home, which isn't very difficult) to get more contrast in the negative.

This is good to know, so if I am to be enlarging at home I should stick with black and white film, but if I am to go the colour route its better to go hybrid and have it scanned and printed for the best effect?

 

[dourbalistar]

Hi everyone, I am new to this stuff so forgive me for the gaps in knowledge or if I am missing anything key.

I am intending to do a photo shoot at a pub, they do open mic and proper shows there. so I was hoping to get the performers basked in the lights with some cool halation you know? I shoot black and white, and have struggled to find anything solid on the topic. I find a lot of stuff about colour films and whatnot, but anything solid on black and white has been tough, I think I just don't know where to look. I was recommended fomapan 400 but that doesn't agree with my camera at the moment. so if anyone has any information I would be happy to hear it.

Another recommendation for Kentmere Pan 400, with some examples that might be similar to the OP's use case. Using a lens at or near wide open may contribute to more softness and "glow". I used the Nikkor-S Auto 55mm f/1.2 for these first two examples. In the second, you can see the halation around the ride cymbal.


2022.07.17 Roll #315-07336-positive.jpg by dourbalistar, on Flickr


2023.12.03 Roll #346-08459-positive.jpg by dourbalistar, on Flickr


A few more examples that show Kentmere Pan 400's halation, in low-light settings with bright highlights. All of these made using an AI Nikkor 50mm f/1.8S, probably also at or near wide open.


2022.11.18 Roll #321-07574-positive.jpg by dourbalistar, on Flickr


2024.03.30 Roll #352-08634-positive.jpg by dourbalistar, on Flickr


2024.07.29 Roll #361-08807-positive.jpg by dourbalistar, on Flickr


2024.07.29 Roll #361-08808-positive.jpg by dourbalistar, on Flickr

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hi everyone, I am new to this stuff so forgive me for the gaps in knowledge or if I am missing anything key.

I am intending to do a photo shoot at a pub, they do open mic and proper shows there. so I was hoping to get the performers basked in the lights with some cool halation you know? I shoot black and white, and have struggled to find anything solid on the topic. I find a lot of stuff about colour films and whatnot, but anything solid on black and white has been tough, I think I just don't know where to look. I was recommended fomapan 400 but that doesn't agree with my camera at the moment. so if anyone has any information I would be happy to hear it.

Welcome to Photrio!

 

[loccdor]

I just saw this frame from one of my contacts on Washi F.

 

[Sanug]

Looks a bit like Kentmere 200-120.

Rolleicord V
Kentmere 200
Adox XT-3, 1+2
Silver Gelatine Print

 

[koraks]

Dug into the archives for a bit. Fomapan 400, 35mm.

(note how the halation extends far beyond the lower frame edge)

 

[mshchem]

Interesting bit about Voigtlander single coating lenses. Not really halation from film but similar outcomes.

Difference Voigtlander MC and SC

Understand the difference between Voigtlander’s single coating (SC) and multi coating (MC)

www.l-camera-forum.com

 

[Paul Howell]

I am interested to learn what you mean by coating on the lenses, in regards to the film I am currently writing up a list of films to ask my camera shop about. Canada post is currently on strike so its a bit of a pain to get anything shipped at the moment.

The C3 50mm was made as an uncoated and single coated lens, mine is coated but flares quite easily, even with a lens hood, shooting into the sun or even with strong lights it will flare, back to the sun, strong reflective surfaces, it will flare. With overcast sky, early in the day late in day, although a simple 3 element design, does quite well. At F3.5 not sure if it is fast enough or indoor low light. Maybe Kodak Double X pushed to 400.

 

[Paul Howell]

Thinking about you have the C4 which has a 2.8 50mm, still single coated. With that lens I would use Kodak Double X, push to 400 and develop in Edwal 12. Photographers Formulary sells a version of it, if you can import it. Edwal 12 produces a glowey type negative. Not a compensation developer, used for shoot line drawing, what PF calls brilliant. Meter for highlights and let the shadows fall where they may.

 

[hobbes]

Also Fomapan 100 and Rollei SuperPan 200..

 

[Homebrewmess]

Quick update, the problem with the fomapan on my rebel 2000 was the center spool for some strange reason so if I buy it in bulk then load it onto my cassettes then I should be fine. I bought some eastman double x. and hope to post the results soon. I am very grateful for all of your help in this and hope to use everything I learned here. I promise to hassle you all with another project I have cooking soon : D

 

[Homebrewmess]

Thinking about you have the C4 which has a 2.8 50mm, still single coated. With that lens I would use Kodak Double X, push to 400 and develop in Edwal 12. Photographers Formulary sells a version of it, if you can import it. Edwal 12 produces a glowey type negative. Not a compensation developer, used for shoot line drawing, what PF calls brilliant. Meter for highlights and let the shadows fall where they may.

HUh that's very interesting, do you know why Edwal 12 does that in comparison to other developers?

 

[Sanug]

Some more halation samples with Kentmere 200:

 

[koraks]

the problem with the fomapan on my rebel 2000 was the center spool for some strange reason so if I buy it in bulk then load it onto my cassettes then I should be fine.

Huh, imagine that! Nice that you've been able to find the cause!

Edwal 12

Careful with that stuff. Don't get it on your skin.

 

[Homebrewmess]

Huh, imagine that! Nice that you've been able to find the cause!

Yeah, I'm really surprised that my problem was that. I am going to do some looking around for some other stuff on the rebel 2000, maybe its just a problem for this camera model and not other rebels? or maybe its just my camera. when I get that sorted i'll look into taking it to a repair shop in a bigger city than mine to see if they can fix it for me

 

[MattKing]

Or maybe it is a problem with modern Foma cassette spools that the were designed at least 30 or so years after the Rebel 2000 camera's film transport system was designed.
A slight variance that has no affect on results with most cameras, but not absolutely every camera model, or the tolerance variation one may encounter in some examples.

 

[Homebrewmess]

Or maybe it is a problem with modern Foma cassette spools that the were designed at least 30 or so years after the Rebel 2000 camera's film transport system was designed.
A slight variance that has no affect on results with most cameras, but not absolutely every camera model, or the tolerance variation one may encounter in some examples.

So maybe there's just enough play to mess with the recall portion of the film delivery mechanism? It isn't too big of a deal, once I get the argus back it shouldn't matter too much how the film is anywho. but maybe I should look into who produces fomapan cassettes that way I know who I can use in the rebel and who I cant

 

[MattKing]

I wouldn't count on there being one consistent supply of cassettes to anyone currently, with the exception of Harman/Ilford, who IIRC recently actually started making their own cassettes again.
I don't know whether Fuji make their own. I don't think Kodak does, but they probably have the resources to hold their suppliers to narrow tolerances.
Although your camera does share its relatively unusual film transport system approach with several other relatively recent Canon model, it wouldn't surprise me if the current film manufacturers never tested their current cassettes with that model.

 

[Chuck1]

The ilford/harmann cassettes are like the ones from the late 80's(reloadable)?