How do I purposely achieve halation with black and white film?

[Homebrewmess]

Hi everyone, I am new to this stuff so forgive me for the gaps in knowledge or if I am missing anything key.

I am intending to do a photo shoot at a pub, they do open mic and proper shows there. so I was hoping to get the performers basked in the lights with some cool halation you know? I shoot black and white, and have struggled to find anything solid on the topic. I find a lot of stuff about colour films and whatnot, but anything solid on black and white has been tough, I think I just don't know where to look. I was recommended fomapan 400 but that doesn't agree with my camera at the moment. so if anyone has any information I would be happy to hear it.

 

[Nitroplait]

Filters i guess. No personal experience, but there seem to be a "thing" in the cine world with Fog and Mist filters (often with fancy names and high prices) that seem to achieve something resembling halation.
Those are intended for digital cine cameras to give a fake filmic look, but I don't see why they couldn't be used on a film camera.

Aside from that. Perhaps you could shoot the color film that provides the desired effect and print as black and white.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Kentmere 200 or 400.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Any of the Kentmere films. My favourite of the lot is their 400 speed.

 

[Paul Howell]

You can use repurposed black and white movie film Kodak Double X is widely available under a number of brands.

 

[Nitroplait]

Wow, I guess I don’t really know about halation then.
I don’t see halation worth mentioning in my Kentmere 400 results. Haven’t tried 200 yet.

Maybe OP could link to an example of “cool halation”?

 

[Arthurwg]

Some have said Infra-red can look like that.

 

[koraks]

I was recommended fomapan 400 but that doesn't agree with my camera at the moment.

Fomapan 400 in 35mm format would most definitely be my recommendation as well, at least if the effect really needs to be done by the film itself. In what way is it not compatible with your camera?
Overall I agree with @Nitroplait that filters are a more flexible and pragmatic option.

Also, welcome aboard!

 

[Paul Howell]

BTW, what is the issue?

"I was recommended fomapan 400 but that doesn't agree with my camera at the moment."

 

[Sanug]

Kentmere 200 and Foma Ortho 400 will provide some strong halation. Both films will give high contrast. Especially Foma Ortho 400 should not be overdeveloped.

Kentmere 200-135

Foma Ortho 400-120

 

[glbeas]

One way to enhance any halation is to carefully mount aluminum foil to the pressure plate so any light that does get through the film will be fully reflected back into the film. I have heard of soaking the film to remove the antihalation dyes then drying and loading it in the camera but this also removes any pan or ortho sensitizing dyes as well. I wouldn’t know how this would affect the speed of the film. This may be better done with ortho film.

 

[loccdor]

Washi F is an X-ray film with no anti-halation layer available in 35mm. This is a shot I took with it where the glow around the subject comes from a lens with a front element covered in very fine scratches as well as the film stock.

Another thing which could be recommended is some type of filtration. Look into cross-screen filters, also known as star filters. It's not exactly the same thing but they'll give additional artistic bloom around specular highlights. There are also some filters known as fog/mist and some people simply smear clear filters with vasoline or various other obstructive substances.

 

[Homebrewmess]

BTW, what is the issue?

"I was recommended fomapan 400 but that doesn't agree with my camera at the moment."

I use a Canon rebel 2000, when I put fomapan 400 in the camera it will register the film and after it loads the 36 frames onto its internal spool the screen goes blank and the reel makes a clicking-crunching sound inside of the camera. I tried new batteries and also putting electrical tape onto the cassette just in case it is throwing a fit over the entire cassette being metal and it still does it. it also wont re-roll the film onto the cassette once again making the crunching sound. I have an argus c4 in the shop being repaired so I hope to use fomapan in that when they get it back to me. I took the camera into my local camera shop and they told me "well that's not good, maybe don't use fomapan" and sent me on my way. I hope that helps

 

[koraks]

Does your Rebel camera behave better with different brands of film?

 

[MattKing]

For those who aren't aware, the Rebel 2000 is one of those cameras that advances the entire roll immediately upon loading, and then rewinds the film one frame at a time as you take your photographs.
I expect there is something slightly different about the Fomapan 400 cassettes that doesn't play well with the power (re)winding system in the Canon camera. It may be as simple as a slightly differently shaped centre spool.

 

[Homebrewmess]

Fomapan 400 in 35mm format would most definitely be my recommendation as well, at least if the effect really needs to be done by the film itself. In what way is it not compatible with your camera?
Overall I agree with @Nitroplait that filters are a more flexible and pragmatic option.

Also, welcome aboard!

In terms of incompatability my reply to Paul Howell says it best, but to sum it up my camera loads the film but makes a clicking-crunching sound when it hits the end of the reel and the screen on the camera goes blank. it also wont unwind back onto the cassette, I have to do that by hand in my dark room,

Thank you for the recommendations, and for being so welcoming. you all have been a big help. Unfortunately I use cafenol at the moment to develop, I am waiting on some Kodak pro xtol so I hope that will give me better results when I do finally shoot this film.

 

[loccdor]

Foma was using those snap-together plastic cassettes for a while if I recall correctly, but mentions "the entire cassette is metal" which I don't understand as being a problem, because most cassettes are.

 

[koraks]

In terms of incompatability my reply to Paul Howell says it best, but to sum it up my camera loads the film but makes a clicking-crunching sound when it hits the end of the reel and the screen on the camera goes blank. it also wont unwind back onto the cassette, I have to do that by hand in my dark room,

Yes, I read that, hence my question whether your Rebel camera does this with other brands of film as well, or only with Fomapan.

For those who aren't aware, the Rebel 2000 is one of those cameras that advances the entire roll immediately upon loading, and then rewinds the film one frame at a time as you take your photographs.
I expect there is something slightly different about the Fomapan 400 cassettes that doesn't play well with the power (re)winding system in the Canon camera. It may be as simple as a slightly differently shaped centre spool.

I'm familiar with the system; it's shared across a couple of Canon cameras. I've never seen it malfunction; the first possible cause that comes to mind is if there's insufficient leader length behind the 36th frame, but frankly, in that scenario AFAIK the Rebels tend to just wind to whatever maximum frame number they reach and start countdown from there. The clicking sound doesn't sound like normal behavior to me.

 

[Paul Howell]

Although the C4's 50mm lens is coated it is a not nearly as effective as the Canon 50mm, so with most B & W films you are more likely to get the glowing effect you are looking for. I still recommend that you try a roll of Kodak Double X, it might be stronger than Foma films.

 

[Homebrewmess]

Yes, I read that, hence my question whether your Rebel camera does this with other brands of film as well, or only with Fomapan.


I'm familiar with the system; it's shared across a couple of Canon cameras. I've never seen it malfunction; the first possible cause that comes to mind is if there's insufficient leader length behind the 36th frame, but frankly, in that scenario AFAIK the Rebels tend to just wind to whatever maximum frame number they reach and start countdown from there. The clicking sound doesn't sound like normal behavior to me.

my Canon doesn't do that with anything but fomapan, I noticed fomapan has a weird split leader on the end of a spool and that even when hand re-loading the gap make it difficult for it to rewind. but I imagine if this was a problem it would be universal. so it might be a defect in my camera

 

[Homebrewmess]

For those who aren't aware, the Rebel 2000 is one of those cameras that advances the entire roll immediately upon loading, and then rewinds the film one frame at a time as you take your photographs.
I expect there is something slightly different about the Fomapan 400 cassettes that doesn't play well with the power (re)winding system in the Canon camera. It may be as simple as a slightly differently shaped centre spool.

this is an interesting possibility, I might try loading fomapan onto a different spool then putting it into the case again to test if this is the problem. thank you for the insight

 

[Homebrewmess]

Although the C4's 50mm lens is coated it is a not nearly as effective as the Canon 50mm, so with most B & W films you are more likely to get the glowing effect you are looking for. I still recommend that you try a roll of Kodak Double X, it might be stronger than Foma films.

I am interested to learn what you mean by coating on the lenses, in regards to the film I am currently writing up a list of films to ask my camera shop about. Canada post is currently on strike so its a bit of a pain to get anything shipped at the moment.

 

[loccdor]

Lower-tech coatings or no coatings can result in more flare and bloom, as can scratched up lenses. The EF-mount lenses that go with your Canon have generally quite high tech coatings which will reduce this effect quite a bit.

Lenses with low tech coatings would tend to include stuff from the 60's, for example.

Lenses with no coatings were all they had before WW2.

 

[Homebrewmess]

Lower-tech coatings or no coatings can result in more flare and bloom, as can scratched up lenses. The EF-mount lenses that go with your Canon have generally quite high tech coatings which will reduce this effect quite a bit.

Lenses with low tech coatings would tend to include stuff from the 60's, for example.

Lenses with no coatings were all they had before WW2.

After some quick research I understand what you mean. so I have to probably wait on my argus in order to get the best results for this artistic look? so in theory if I used something like Kodak double x and then also an older camera I could achieve some really nice bloom? I'm also reading about carefully applying aluminum foil to the pressure plate of my camera. would that in theory be the way to maximize the chances for success? or do you think doing so much might be too much and nuke my photos?

 

[Donald Qualls]

If the film has an effective antihalation layer, a chrome plated pressure plate won't cause problems.

If you actually want halation as opposed to flare (overall loss of contrast due to light scattering within the lens or inside the camera), you need a film with little or no antihalation layer. Fomapan (in my experience) isn't that film. If you don't mind spending the money for color and its processing, Cinestill's rebranded Vision3 stocks have *no* antihalation (though that will change soon as Kodak switches from remjet, which Cinestill removes or pays Kodak to leave off, to a more modern antihalation layer).

If it needs to be black and white, you'll probably be best off with a duplicating stock (very slow films, but not intended for high contrast subjects since they're contact printed from a cine negative strip), though you might try a roll of Cinestill developed in B&W chemistry (it'll have a strong orange mask that makes it hard to print in the darkroom, but it still scans okay). Film Photography Project has a number of these slow duplicating stocks, and if you give them a call or email, they can probably tell you which ones have the "worst" halation.