Horizon Perfekt - user experiences, please

tkamiya · Jul 4, 2013

I am considering purchasing a Horizon Perfekt from Lomography.

First, I am very much into sharp and well defined photographs. So that will be one of my BIG concern. I am also NOT into light leak and random effects that Lomo is known for. It *seems* Horizon line is better made with glass lens but I'm going by random reviews.

I would like to get user opinions, please. Please tell me if you actually own this camera and use it yourself, or if you are repeating something you saw elsewhere. Both are welcome and appreciated but I'd like to know which is which.

My expectation of sharpness is, able to print on 11x14 paper full frame (obviously, the image will not fill the paper vertically) and not see softening. I don't expect top end Nikon sharp or Zeiss sharp but I would like to see decent results.

I will be shooting B&W mainly and print myself in my darkroom.

If you have any other ideas about any other cameras in panoramic shoots, I'd like to hear that too.

Thanks very mucho!

gorbas · Jul 4, 2013

Buy original Horizon 202, not one from overpriced Lomo. Happy user with 25 years of experience shooting with Horizont and Horizon 202. You can see examples at my web site, all pictures there are taken with those two cameras.
Goran

ambaker · Jul 4, 2013

I have the Horizon 202, which is an earlier version. The lens is fixed focus, but 11x14 is very achievable. Tripods and mono pods are helpful. It can be hand held, but the grip is almost necessary to keep your fingers out of the picture.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

JLP · Jul 4, 2013

The Horizon Perfekt is a very good camera with a fine lens. I regrettably sold mine about a year ago because I needed the money for something else.
I could see myself buying another one I the future.
I don't think you will be disappointed as far as sharpness goes with this camera if you compare it to other 35mm film cameras.

AgX · Jul 4, 2013

The Horizon cameras have nothing to do with the cameras typically sold by Lomography.

The lens is of the Tessar type. As only a lesser coverage is needed a Tessar of quite short focal lenght is sufficient.

tkamiya · Jul 4, 2013

What do you mean??

Lomography site has Horizon Perfekt and Kompact listed. You mean they don't make them that they are just dealers?

whlogan · Jul 4, 2013

Get a Fuji TX1 or a Hasselblad Xpan... they are super!!!
Logan

AgX · Jul 4, 2013

tkamiya said:
What do you mean??

Lomography site has Horizon Perfekt and Kompact listed. You mean they don't make them that they are just dealers?

Yes they are listed there, but Horizon (Horizont) panorama cameras are being made by KMZ in Krasnogorsk/Russia starting back in 1967 !

thegman · Jul 4, 2013

I had a Horizon Perfekt, it did not leak light or anything like that. The lens I found to be pretty sharp, in fact, it was very sharp. Obviously if you don't get the horizon straight, it'll look very curved.

I liked it on balance, it was a cool camera, no reliability issues, easy to use etc. It goes without saying that the XPan is probably the better camera, but it's also priced accordingly. I think the Horizon is actually a pretty nice camera.

tkamiya · Jul 4, 2013

whlogan said:
Get a Fuji TX1 or a Hasselblad Xpan... they are super!!!
Logan

Yeah.... let me see if I can find some $2000 in my pocket....

gone · Jul 5, 2013

gorbas, your first link is picture less on my computer

gorbas · Jul 8, 2013

Thank you Momus for the note! Yes, my server was down. Now, it's back in service.

http://basaric.ca/

jamie young · Jul 8, 2013

The xpan is a traditional flat plane film camera with a panoramic crop and the horizon is a swing lens panoramic camera, and they are very different tools. They aren't really comparable as they do different things. Some of the earlier horizons did have quality control issues that caused banding in some of the cameras. I would be curious to hear more opinions as well on the latest model

gorbas · Jul 9, 2013

Jamie, you are absolutely right. There is huge difference in final pictured taken with those two cameras, like day and night. After many years of using Horizonts i tried Xpan for a year and I had to give up. Beautifully made camera with amazing features but on the end it didn't help me produce pictures I liked. Mechanically Horizonts can be challenged, even the newest S3 model. They are very crude picture taking machines but they can produce the most beautiful results. Banding is an issue when people mistakenly keep fingers close to rotating speed setting drum or if camera has some mechanical issues. But generally banding was never an issue with my 4 Horizont/Horizon 202 cameras or with S3 I tried. But be ready for everything else!

fastw · Jul 9, 2013

They're great, get one.
Bought mine from Lomo website, it was the cheapest.

David Brown · Jul 10, 2013

tkamiya said:
My expectation of sharpness is, able to print on 11x14 paper full frame (obviously, the image will not fill the paper vertically) and not see softening. I don't expect top end Nikon sharp or Zeiss sharp but I would like to see decent results.

I print on 16x20 paper cut in half for 8x20. You'll be fine.

tkamiya · Jul 10, 2013

gorbas said:
There is huge difference in final pictured taken with those two cameras, like day and night.

I'm very curious about this. How are they different? Is this due to the difference in mechanism, one being rotating lens and the other being ultra-wide lens?

AgX · Jul 10, 2013

Yes, the imageforming is different. Consider the scale of parts of the image at both systems.

gorbas · Jul 11, 2013

tkamiya, pictures from Xpan simply looked like centre cropped 6x7 negatives, witch this is basically concept of this system. Everything was so straight. I was fine with horizontal angle of lens view but I couldn't adjust on vertical angle of 45mm lens. It was way to narrow for my liking. I was missing vertical angle of 28mm lens. If I had money to buy 30mm Xpan lens then my vertical angle will be OK but then my horizontal angle will be just too wide. The reason why I thought Xpan will work for me is because sometimes Horizont's horizontal 120 degree angle of view was to wide. Then rotating lens made all the difference I was looking for and Xpan with 45 and 90mm lenses was sold. And I never looked back! You can also check their New S3 model. The ugliest camera known to man, but it works!

tkamiya · Jul 11, 2013

Thank you Gorbas! Quite helpful.

According to Lomography's page, Perfekt is newer than S3 Pro...
http://www.lomography.com/magazine/reviews/2013/06/28/lomopedia-horizon-s3-pro

Other than the angle of view issue both vertical and horizontal, do images taken by these cameras (Xpan and swing lens) differ in any way? Do the images get compressed/distorted differently? I'm tying to get a grip on the image differences, still. I ask this because I could, conceivably get an ultra-wide lens for my Nikon and crop top and bottom.

No, I don't think S3 is ugly at all.... I think it's neat looking!

gorbas · Jul 11, 2013

Hi Tkamiya,
I'm not sure did you check out my Flickr Horizont page?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26983280@N00/sets/72157623331296558/
There are two pictures there showing difference in field of view between those two cameras, Horizont and Xpan.
If you take look at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26983280@N00/8289108459/in/set-72157623331296558
you will see how much curvature is introduced by rotating Horizont lens. In reality those chairs are in straight perfect line. I was right in middle of them and maybe 2-2.5meters away. So far this one is perfect example I found in all my pictures of this phenomena. Pictures of the straight long walls are also very indicative. But when you picture everything else this phenomena is very nice hidden and I like it a lot.
Nice thing about S3 is that it has 1/30s. I do not care about anything faster than 1/125 but found that I'm using those slower speeds a lot.
Inside film chamber of S3 I tried last year was very rough. After one roll there was a lot of emulsion dust left inside.
If I have time today I will try to find you few more examples of the same scene taken with Horizont and Xpan.
My approach was to fit pictures taken with Xpan in my vision of pictures taken with Horizont. Maybe if you start with Xpan you can be happier and poorer!? But do not mix them!

tkamiya · Jul 11, 2013

I noticed Lomo site was offering 100 dollars off on Horizon Perfekt so I grabbed one. I'm going to start with this....

The char example is very telling. So it has a pronounced curve toward the edge then. I'll really have to shoot a brick wall to get a handle on it. I was curious as to what shutter speed really means to this camera. The lens is open and rotates. So when it says 1/250, is it an equivalant exposure per section of the film?? It's open longer than that for the lens to sweep side to side, correct??

AgX · Jul 11, 2013

Yes, this the disadvantage or adavantage, depending on viewppoint, of rotational panoramic cameras.
Though there had been a trend to reduce overall exposure time with those.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jul 11, 2013

Its too late to join the discussion because you bought the camera. I am interested in these cameras for a long time and I contacted with Lytkarinko at Moscow - One of the largest optical glass makers and casters of 8 meters diameter Chilean telescope mirror - and Zenit Factory at Moscow. I wanted to see a lens diagram of Perfekt camera and they said it was a old project and lens designed and produced at glass factory. Zenit reply was interesting , if I order 1000 dollars or more , they said they could send me 4 perfekt camera each 250 dollars. No shipping fee and they carry the package with their van to Moscow Int. Airport.
I want to add these cameras pictures gives an wrong impression that they look too big. In real time , they are small cameras to what to do.
They use watch mechanism - real one - to move the lens and when they are broken , no camera repair shop can repair.
They have thin cheap feeling plastic body and cheap noisy mechanism.

And the latest notice , with latest model , they changed the lens design and quality drops too much and lots of fans flame to zenit.

Umut

AgX · Jul 11, 2013

Umut, see post #5.

Horizon Perfekt - user experiences, please

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