Horizon Perfekt questions

[reddesert]

This is a photo of my Horizon 202 (not a Perfekt) with label tape on the rails. You can't see the details very well, because it's black label tape in a film chamber. I don't know how to answer the question of where you put it other than "on the film rails," covering basically all of them. I rounded the ends of the label tape so that it wouldn't scratch the film or worse catch on the the film and pull up, jamming everything. However, I stuck it on there 25 years ago and it hasn't come up, although I have not been using the camera every day. If you look at the bottom left, it shows how I rounded the tape end.

The reason I did this was to shift the focus closer than infinity, not for scratches. If the label tape is 0.2mm thick (I forget if this is the actual thickness), then it shifts the focus point to about 4 meters. At apertures smaller than about f/4 or f/5.6, infinity should be within the depth of field.

The curved film path of the Horizon tensions the film against the rails more tightly than in an average camera. If I had to polish the film rails I would try using something like a Scotchbrite pad and doing it by hand. They may be made out of aluminum, like many cameras, not very hard compared to steel.

You can't use typical plumber's Teflon tape in this application. Teflon tape is intended to be gripped between two things, like in a joint. It would just fall off. You could use stick on Teflon sheets or tape, but only if you find stick on Teflon that is 0.1-0.2mm thick.

 

[AgX]

Later I would like to try Dymo tape (the black one?) on the rails (poorly maintained by KMZ).
For now I would like to polish the rails: how can I do it?

What is the idea behind polishing these rails?
If they scratch the film, these scratches would not show up in the image.*

The idea behind putting foil on the rails seemingly was that by this the film would get lifted off something that scratches the it, at least we had hints at resulting focus shift in one post.


*(There even had been rails designed in Europe that by purpose yield friction on the film.)

 

[gorbas]

Thank you Raghu and Huss for kind words!
Matt, teflon tape is maybe 10X more expensive and much more difficult to find and order (at least in Canada).
I finally managed to get one roll and will soon run the test with it.
I'm very happy with focus shift caused by thickness of Dymo tape, it works almost perfectly for me.
I used 202 camera with Dymo tape applied from +40C to a 10C and it held well except in one case when tape got stuck with the film.
Well done Reddesert! That is exactly how my camera looks inside. I basically split Dymo tape to 2 equal strips, round ends and apply to the rails.
Strip needs to be wider than width of the perforation holes.

 

[LuigiMan]

This is a photo of my Horizon 202 (not a Perfekt) with label tape on the rails. You can't see the details very well, because it's black label tape in a film chamber. I don't know how to answer the question of where you put it other than "on the film rails," covering basically all of them. I rounded the ends of the label tape so that it wouldn't scratch the film or worse catch on the the film and pull up, jamming everything. However, I stuck it on there 25 years ago and it hasn't come up, although I have not been using the camera every day. If you look at the bottom left, it shows how I rounded the tape end.

The reason I did this was to shift the focus closer than infinity, not for scratches. If the label tape is 0.2mm thick (I forget if this is the actual thickness), then it shifts the focus point to about 4 meters. At apertures smaller than about f/4 or f/5.6, infinity should be within the depth of field.

The curved film path of the Horizon tensions the film against the rails more tightly than in an average camera. If I had to polish the film rails I would try using something like a Scotchbrite pad and doing it by hand. They may be made out of aluminum, like many cameras, not very hard compared to steel.

You can't use typical plumber's Teflon tape in this application. Teflon tape is intended to be gripped between two things, like in a joint. It would just fall off. You could use stick on Teflon sheets or tape, but only if you find stick on Teflon that is 0.1-0.2mm thick.

View attachment 289107

Thank you very much for this very clear explanation and photo!
I can see exactly where to put the tape on the rails; 9mm Dymo tape (I don't know the thickness) and cut it in half.
Rounding the ends is also very good.
The depth of field is also important to me because my panoramic photos usually have both foreground and background elements.
I have some doubts about polishing the rails because any error could be irreversible, while the tape can be removed.
For now, I'll put the tape on the rails and see how it works.

 

[LuigiMan]

The idea behind putting foil on the rails seemingly was that by this the film would get lifted off something that scratches the it, at least we had hints at resulting focus shift in one post.

Thanks. If the tape solves two problems (scratches and depth of field), this is indeed a remarkable solution.

 

[LuigiMan]

Strip needs to be wider than width of the perforation holes.

Great advice for me!

 

[LuigiMan]

Luigi, Thank you!
What film are you using in your Horizon

I used only Fomapan 100 and 400. My Horizon is new and I a newby user...

 

[gorbas]

Hi Luigi, I did shoot maybe 30m of Foma 100 before but none of it in Horizont. I think you will be Ok with Dymo tape applied. That will help you with rough rails.
Also, if you look closely at your open back Horizon you will see that Russians designed it the way that film image recording area is never touching any part of the camera body but execution of that design is something else.
We all started this as new, so please don't worry!

 

[LuigiMan]

Hi Goran, currently I have 30m of Foma 100 and 400, for the rest I am shooting a lot in medium format (6x9, 6x6, 6x4.5).
As soon as possible, I will try the tape on the rails.
I looked at how the film overlaps on the rails and in theory there should be no contact with the image area. Then, as you rightly said, in practice things change.
I still don't understand how the scratch occurs along the frame and why this doesn't always happen. Mysteries of Russian cameras ...

 

[AgX]

I cannot think of any other cause than the roller on the left.

I would not know how a protruding part of the swinging drum could pass the outer drum.

 

[gorbas]

Scratching is caused by rough rails 99.9%. End of story! Of course, it's Horizont, so it can be anything else including Gremlins & co.

 

[AgX]

How can a rough rail scratch the image?

 

[gorbas]

Who is talking about scratched image area? In the worst case scenario, usually with brand new Horizont, there is sometimes scratch line or lines, fraction of mm inside of the image area.
Amount of emulsion particles and dust left along rails clearly demonstrate who is responsible for scratching.