Homebrew developers in the middle of the CoViD-19 pandemic

[Máx Arnold]

Hey there!
I've been wanting to try paper negatives and diy developers for quite a while now.
I've finally ordered an envelope of rc paper and a bottle of ilfostop. And I'm now looking for a good developer until it arrives, but I find myself in trouble:
I wanted to use a recipe published on youtube (Forgive me, the video is terrible, but the recipe is not) but I find myself confined to my home on a time when the only medicine people take are acetaminophen (tylenol) and vitamins, specially C. PLUS there is no chemical supplier available because of the lockdown.

Reading all those posts about caffenol makes me fell quite alone, because suddenly people pop out a jar of phenidone out of nowhere, and I can't even go out of my home. They even say HC110 syrup is cheap, but they obviously live in the us.

I wanted to read your thoughts and experiences in this times of pandemic and bloody cough, as well as ask the following: How much time will it take for simple paRodinal (I said simpe, lye and tylenol in water, no sulphite) to get ruined by air? I know the sulphite, metabisulphite, bisulphite are there to prevent oxidation, but if this oxidation happens slow enough I can use this as a one-shot dev, I guess...

Following the same thought Gainer had when discovering ascorbate developers, if I add a Vit C tablet to that solution (lye, tylenol tablets), would it be superaditive/ work better? Would it preserve it a little longer?

Bear in mind that I'm much better making a "glass" (around 300ml, 12 ounces) of developer that lasts a couple hours at most than preparing liters of developer and having it there for years.

These are just thoughts. Hope you're having a great day, inside your home.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Start with instant coffee, the cheapest rotgut is the best you can get. Add some vitamin C, and some washing soda (laundry soda, soda crystals, or soda ash for swimming pools, all same stuff). That's Caffenol C, on of the easiest (if also stinkiest) homebrew developers out there.

If you make Parodinal without sulfite, you can judge when it's usable by color: must be pink to work, but don't use it after the concentrate has turned as dark as Coca-Cola. That said, however, I'm not certain it will work at all without the sulfite -- but you can't just mix it to working strength, the lye has to be strong at the start to convert the paracetamol into p-aminophenol.

 

[Alan Johnson]

If you have some vitamin C the formula described in posts 28/9 here might work.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...aracetamol-tylenol.103503/page-2#post-1368429

 

[Máx Arnold]

Tanks for the replies!
Later yesterday, I found this:
http://ascorbate-developers.blogspot.com/2011/03/tylenol-and-ascorbate-it-works.html
http://ascorbate-developers.blogspot.com/2011/03/tylenol-and-ascorbate-addition.html
http://ascorbate-developers.blogspot.com/2011/03/tylenol-and-ascorbate-dynamite.html

There is a developer made from Tylenol/ Acetaminophen + Ascorbic acid that seems to work well. I assume the acetaminophen is first hydrolysed to p-aminophenol, and the borax is used as a buffer and restrainer. I might dilute it or use another kind of restrainer, since borax isn't sold here. (I once went into a pharmacy asking for borax, sodium tetraborate and they looked at me with such a surprised face...)

Using data given by the thread Alan Johnson quoted, usign ascorbic acid and p-aminophenol seems to be quite good. I'm really thankful for that.

Regarding what Donald Qualls said, I'm really thankful as well. I think it may work, though more poorly than with sulphite. I'm not looking into something picture perfect, so I think I'll give it a try. I'll be judging by your advice on the colour of the solution.

 

[Donald Qualls]

For whatever it's worth, in the USA, borax isn't usually sold in pharmacies, it's a laundry aid. Twenty Mule Team is the common brand, and you put it in your washing to make your detergent work better (makes more difference if you're using actual soap or pre-1970 detergents than with modern types).

Also, sodium sulfite is one of two chemicals (sodium thiosulfate is the other) that are sold to reduce chlorine in swimming pools and hot tubs -- so you can sometimes get it at pool and spa suppliers.

 

[Máx Arnold]

What you said is true. Maybe I'm not looking everywhere I can.

I remember something: Ferrous sulphate is used for wet plate/ dry plate developing. I've got chemicals for the cyanotype process, and I'm able to make ferric oxalate and then reduce it with sunlight aka ferrous oxalate.
I've been interested in this for a while, so when my paper arrives I'll try this and let you know how it does. Maybe we I can see a new dawn. The lockdown here has got reinforced and my paper will probably take a week more to arrive than expected.

Nevertheless I went to the pharmacy and was able to get 8 paracetamol tablets. They didn't have Vit C tablets this time. They're scarce now.

Best Wishes, Max.

 

[Alan Johnson]

If you cannot obtain Sulfite or ascorbate, Cysteine (possibly from a pharmacy) might work, see post 107 and later:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-10-by-ryuji-suzuki.83308/page-5#post-1126646
This would be an experiment.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Ferrous sulfate is available from garden supply stores in the USA -- it's a supplement for plants, some of which need more iron-rich soil than what they're planted in. It's also useful if you want to make your own ink (for dip pens only, please), it reacts with gallic or tannic acids to produce a very permanent black ink.

 

[Máx Arnold]

If you cannot obtain Sulfite or ascorbate, Cysteine (possibly from a pharmacy) might work

I DON'T BELIEVE IT! CYSTEINE?

I've even played with that stuff when practising making developers thinking it'll mimic the effervescent tablets...
Thanks!! I'll check that post!
The stuff I can get is named N-AcetylCIsteine, it's a nasal secretion-kind of drug.
I'll make some research... maybe it works or I can convert it.

Edit: Sometimes

Ferrous sulphate is available as you say, Donald. But I was thinking of making it myself since I've got the chemicals.
In the web they say ferrous developers have poor performance... but I want to try.-

 

[Máx Arnold]

Well, yes. I'll try it. Maybe it gets helpful for reducing grain.
Tanks Again

 

[alanrockwood]

...Nevertheless I went to the pharmacy and was able to get 8 paracetamol tablets. They didn't have Vit C tablets this time. They're scarce now.

Best Wishes, Max.

I don't know if it would apply to Argentina, but in the US you can find Vit C at health food stores.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The stuff I can get is named N-AcetylCIsteine

For film processing, it may work or it may not, but the difference between paracetamol and Rodinal is that same n-acetyl group -- and to make Parodinal, you have to cleave that group off the p-aminophenol (that's part of why you have to make it as a concentrate).

 

[Máx Arnold]

and to make Parodinal, you have to cleave that group off the p-aminophenol (that's part of why you have to make it as a concentrate)

Then I'm probably not going to add it, we'll see...
I prefer to take it when I have a cold.

On the other hand, the paper and fix arrived!!
We'll see what happens tomorrow. (Now it's nighttime)

 

[Rafael Saffirio]

Hi, I think cafenol C is the best "kitchen" developer. I have tried cafenol many years ago and very recently parodinal (with sodium sulfite and everything) it worked but is to grainy, at least in kentmere 400.
This is the cafenol that I used:

• 3 tablespoon of pool pH up
• 3 tablespoons of coffee (Nescafé)
• 2gr of vitamin C
• water to complete 600 ml

Develop for 20 minutes at 20C, tomorrow I will post samples.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Yep. In halfway normal times, everything you need for Caffenol C can be sourced at a grocery store, though a health food shop for powdered vitamin C makes things a little easier. A stop by the pool/spa supplier for chlorine reducer to make fixer, and you're ready to go.

 

[koraks]

(I once went into a pharmacy asking for borax, sodium tetraborate and they looked at me with such a surprised face...)

I'm not surprised. Here in The Netherlands, it's more or less impossible currently for consumers to buy borax due to regulations that went into effect in the past few years. Of course, just trying a little harder helps and you can still get your hands on it. But it's not one of those chemicals that is (or even, was) available in pharmacies/drug stores, grocery stores etc. My batch came from a brewery supplies store; apparently it's used for cleaning utensils & vessels. My dad uses it to poison ants, so he bought some and gave me half of it.

Not sure what the current situation in Argentina is w.r.t. the lockdown & stuff but you may want to look for brewery and wholesale professional food stores. Stuff like sulfite, bisulfite and sometimes even vitamin C can be had there as well as several other things that may be useful for photography. I'd say about 2/3 to 3/4 the chemicals I use in my darkroom come from supermarkets, food stores etc. And I don't even do caffenol and parodinal...

 

[Rafael Saffirio]

Hi,
Here are the samples

This is two are Ilford FP4
Traditional D76 1+1 11min
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-QO3c6Y_vOtu5ZwwQnWKEHrmu2oK-Eg6

Cafenol (corrected recipe)

• 10 teaspoons cooffe
• 6 tablespoos pool pH Up
• 3 gr vitamin C
• Water to complete 500ml

Developed for 15 minutes
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GmIgLsEpQ9I-DZkfWeEq6bTGDvDg06Kv



Finaly Parodinal 1+50 for 11 minutes, Kentmere 400, too much grain
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SsVfWbxB6_FucBajAiYcyGOw0eXsX5Vy/view?usp=sharing


@Máx Arnold: en mercado libre de argentina vi que hay publicado tiosulfito de sodio para el fijador y sulfito de sodio para hacer parodinal.

 

[Donald Qualls]

That's not a very equal comparison -- 100 speed film in a highly solvent developer, vs. 400 speed in a high acutance type. Swap the two and you'll probably like the results more.

 

[Máx Arnold]

Well... paper arrived yesterday.
I made an experiment, but note it was probably gross by photographic standards.
I mixed 2.5 grs of acetaminophen (in the form of two and a half tablets of 1 gram) and 15.70 grs of lye pellets into 50ml of water.
The lye dissolved completely and the tablets incorporated. First the solution was milky, and then it started becoming more rose coloured, like Donald said it should be.
I then exposed a photograph on my pinhole camera from a cut of rc paper, for one minute. Today is an overcast day.

I got into the darkroom, took the paper out of the camera and just put it into that mixture of "rude parodinal" dilluted with water to make 237 ml and then added 237ml more to the tray. I was able to see and image appear onto the paper, and left it for two minutes into that mixture to fully develop. Mi stop bath was a splash of bottled lemon juice on tap water (I know, very unscientific) and the fixer Ilford Rapid Fixer 1+9 for 2 minutes. I washed for two minutes.
My result:

Now, the image is very soft. It's my cellphone. The real image has detail in shadows and mid tones. (Iḿ not sure for the highlights because since the sky was completely cloudy, I don't think there could be much detail anyway) To me, it's overexposed. But that's not the issue.}

I obviously had problem with development. The image has lighter streaks all over it (Since they're lighter in the negative, it's not light gaps) And there's a chemical... thing... in the edge.
I think maybe my crude developer is too harsh for the emulsion, too cold, too little time, or too little agitation.
Maybe you can tell better.

Regarding Rafael, I bought the paper an the fixer on Mercado Libre. If my Rodinal doesn't work I'll but things there then. (Compré el papel y fijador en Mercado Libre. Si mi "Rodinal" no funciona, entonces compraré as cosas allí.)

 

[Donald Qualls]

For the way you made the developer, I don't think that negative looks terrible. Normally, with the sodium sulfite, you'd let your Parodinal stand for 24-72 hours to turn pink. You may have underdeveloped, however; Parodinal at the usual dilutions is much less active than common paper developers at printing dilutions (like Dektol 1+2). Longer in the developer might have evened out your development. The unevenness might also be due to stop bath that was too weak, so didn't stop the developer at the same time over the whole sheet -- ordinary white vinegar, 1+1 in water, is the same as common commercial stop bath.

The "chemical...thing..." is probably an area that either didn't get fully fixed or didn't wash completely. At this stage, I wouldn't worry much about it.

 

[Rafael Saffirio]

Hi.
The parodinal recipe that I made needed like 3 day to "mature" (change color to pink) I don't how much time you waited.
The other day I tried using it as a paper developer, I had to dilute it 1+200 because it was to fast. I don't know if my parodinal is ok because 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottle is filled with crystals

 

[Donald Qualls]

@Rafael Saffirio For best concentrate longevity, you need to have some crystals in the liquid, but I've never had more than a thin layer on the bottom of the bottle when I've made it.

Max's developer turned color fast because he didn't have sodium sulfite, so the p-aminophenol started to oxidize immediately; his developer probably would have looked like coffee after three days.

 

[Máx Arnold]

I really thank you for the replies!
I made a second test:


That's the second test next to to the one I posted earlier.
This time the crude rodinal (if I can call it like that) was grey-ish in colour.
I constantly agitated it in both dev and fixer. The uneven development now isn't a problem. It seems to have been underdeveloped because the exposure was the same.
The density was gorgeous right before getting into the fixer. When I washed it it had come up like this.

My rodinal just doesn't last as much as three days. I left it overnight in the tray and today it was dark coca-cola-like so.. whatever. I don't really mind. It's cheap and easy, if not quick and dirty.

I'll make the developer again, same method described. I'm going to wait 15 minutes and not gonna dilute it too much. (Just add enough water to make 237 ml)

 

[Máx Arnold]

I made two further tests with the developer I described: 2.5 g acetaminophen 15.70 g lye pellets into 50 ml water (I add the lye to the tablets already in suspension) wait 15 minutes (it gets milky pink) add water to make 237 ml. I used it when it was brownish coloured like the one Rafael made.



I insert both the photo of the negative and the digital inversions (in case you're curious)
I honestly really thank you for the feedback given! It's helping me a lot to discover the paper negatives and the silver gelatin process!

 

[Donald Qualls]

That's some real progress! I've never shot paper negatives in fifty years of on and off photography, but I'm thinking I really need to order in some Harman Direct positive to fit my 4x5 film holders and make some "one of a kind" shots with my bigger cameras (got a 4x5 pinhole, too). It's also tempting to build an "Afghan Box Camera", just for the fun of it; those are evolved to make paper negatives, then rephotograph them to make positives.