Hipsters and hasselblads

[qqphot]

It means "someone who is cooler than me."

 

[cptrios]

This term hipster is tossed about but I don't really know what it means. At first I thought it was something about hippies, but it wasn't. When I read descriptions of hipster virtually every quality attributed to them overlapped to a large degree with members of other groups. I thought it must be an urban, yuppie thing. But then I read there are rural hipsters. Then I thought it must be a left-leaning thing. But then I read there is subset of Nazi hipsters called Nipsters. It said that hipsters like to wear tight fitting jeans. But don't a lot of people, especially women, pay top dollar to get tight fitting designer jeans? Does hipster really mean anything other than a general pejorative to effect that, "I think this person(s) is pretentious and has bad taste"? If that is all it means why don't we just say that?

Because it's a lot more words!

 

[Helge]

This term hipster is tossed about but I don't really know what it means. At first I thought it was something about hippies, but it wasn't. When I read descriptions of hipster virtually every quality attributed to them overlapped to a large degree with members of other groups. I thought it must be an urban, yuppie thing. But then I read there are rural hipsters. Then I thought it must be a left-leaning thing. But then I read there is subset of Nazi hipsters called Nipsters. It said that hipsters like to wear tight fitting jeans. But don't a lot of people, especially women, pay top dollar to get tight fitting designer jeans? Does hipster really mean anything other than a general pejorative to effect that, "I think this person(s) is pretentious and has bad taste"? If that is all it means why don't we just say that?

It basically means exactly the same thing as in the fifties. A poseur, an inauthentic person who is only doing "it" to borrow some personality and identity from the realm of people who has it.
Not a case of faking it till you make it, because the hipster generally have little to no real interest in the line of work, hobby or group whom they are stealing feathers from.
You don't often see very rich or poor people being posers. It's an almost exclusively bourgeois concept.
It's a (relatively cheap and available) ways to be someone, and not drown in the maelstrom of mediocrity and the constant reminder of the other 8 billion people, that is modern popculture.
Of course ironically they just create their own local maelstroms because these people lack the mental capacity to think of something truly new.

 

[Arthurwg]

Sorry Helge, total nonsense.

 

[cptrios]

I don't think it's nonsense - at least not all of it. My own definition of a 'true' hipster is basically "someone who engineers their fashion, behavior, and lifestyle choices to be 'outside of the mainstream' in a way that is specifically designed to improve their social cachet (i.e. make them look cool)." There are plenty of people who look and dress like hipsters and therefore have hipster style, but I'd only really apply it to a person whose motivations for doing the above were not grounded in their actual desires. For example, someone who buys a film camera of any sort and posts more Instagram shots of them holding it than pictures taken with it is absolutely in hipster territory. I think that Helge's description is definitely on the aggressive side, but the only point I absolutely disagree with is that there are plenty of rich hipsters. The ur-hipster of the current generation is, after all, a 20-something who lives off of a trust fund in a $5000-per-month loft in Brooklyn.

Having said that, and joking aside, it's not a word I use too often anymore because of the same issue bluechromis mentioned. It's really reductive and ends up dismissing plenty of people who don't deserve to be dismissed. I did definitely enjoy lookatthisf*ckinghipster back in the day, though.

 

[henryvk]

Griping about perceived hipsters or endlessly debating definitions of hipsterism is far worse than any bearded urban poseur on a fixie or penny-farthing or whatever it is people ride.

 

[Helge]

Sorry Helge, total nonsense.

What part?

I don't think it's nonsense - at least not all of it. My own definition of a 'true' hipster is basically "someone who engineers their fashion, behavior, and lifestyle choices to be 'outside of the mainstream' in a way that is specifically designed to improve their social cachet (i.e. make them look cool)." There are plenty of people who look and dress like hipsters and therefore have hipster style, but I'd only really apply it to a person whose motivations for doing the above were not grounded in their actual desires. For example, someone who buys a film camera of any sort and posts more Instagram shots of them holding it than pictures taken with it is absolutely in hipster territory. I think that Helge's description is definitely on the aggressive side, but the only point I absolutely disagree with is that there are plenty of rich hipsters. The ur-hipster of the current generation is, after all, a 20-something who lives off of a trust fund in a $5000-per-month loft in Brooklyn.

Having said that, and joking aside, it's not a word I use too often anymore because of the same issue bluechromis mentioned. It's really reductive and ends up dismissing plenty of people who don't deserve to be dismissed. I did definitely enjoy lookatthisf*ckinghipster back in the day, though.

Not aggressive at all.
And not a description I can really claim as my own.
It’s basically something that was observed decades ago with other groups, one of them also called hipsters in the 40s/50s.

It’s people with a profound grievance, identity crisis and/or existential problems.

If they have a modicum of resources they will seek an outlet and a relief.

If they have plenty of resources they won’t care. If they have none they won’t care either.

That affluent $5000 per month Brooklynite is often not as well to do if you (are allowed to) take a deep look. They are often just scraping by, and can put up the spiel for only so long.

Of course there is exemptions to every rule. And there is always grades and gradations.
Even with something that is seemingly binary.
But that doesn’t discount general tendencies.

Griping about perceived hipsters or endlessly debating definitions of hipsterism is far worse than any bearded urban poseur on a fixie or penny-farthing or whatever it is people ride.

It’s sociology and trends. That is always interesting.
Your description of a hipster was valid ten years ago. That perhaps says something of your interest and general knowledge on the subject.
Perhaps you best just stay out of this discussion altogether?

 

[henryvk]

I don’t think I need a sociology degree to identify embarrassing attempts at gatekeeping.

 

[cptrios]

Hey, I saw that previous 'old dude' comment! I'm in my 30s and have been called a hipster myself plenty of times. Worse yet, in the late 00s I worked at an Apple store, where skinny jeans abounded. This exact conversation happened all the freaking time. You should have seen the mass confusion that followed a customer referring to one of our employees (a guy in his 60s who looked like Willie Nelson) as an 'aging hipster.'

For what it's worth, the only gatekeeping I'm interested in is futilely wishing that people who have no intention of enjoying cameras stop buying them and driving prices up. I'd even use a really broad definition of 'enjoying' there.

 

[Helge]

I don’t think I need a sociology degree to identify embarrassing attempts at gatekeeping.

Gatekeeping seems to be the newest version of "I just don't like what you are saying but lack the capacity or will to argue" or "I feel hit on a raw nerve and I can't be bothered to articulate".
This is not about keeping a gate closed or value judgement.
It's an observation.

Gatekeeping is much too good a word to be spoiled by overuse and misuse.
Universities does gatekeeping. Big corporations does gatekeeping. Governments does gatekeeping.
Random users on a message board has zero ability to do gatekeeping.

 

[Helge]

Hey, I saw that previous 'old dude' comment! I'm in my 30s and have been called a hipster myself plenty of times. Worse yet, in the late 00s I worked at an Apple store, where skinny jeans abounded. This exact conversation happened all the freaking time. You should have seen the mass confusion that followed a customer referring to one of our employees (a guy in his 60s who looked like Willie Nelson) as an 'aging hipster.'

For what it's worth, the only gatekeeping I'm interested in is futilely wishing that people who have no intention of enjoying cameras stop buying them and driving prices up. I'd even use a really broad definition of 'enjoying' there.

Any popular phrase or word concept will get overused and appropriated. Often by people who shouldn't at all consider doing so.

 

[henryvk]

Hey, I saw that previous 'old dude' comment! I'm in my 30s and have been called a hipster myself plenty of times. Worse yet, in the late 00s I worked at an Apple store, where skinny jeans abounded. This exact conversation happened all the freaking time. You should have seen the mass confusion that followed a customer referring to one of our employees (a guy in his 60s who looked like Willie Nelson) as an 'aging hipster.'

For what it's worth, the only gatekeeping I'm interested in is futilely wishing that people who have no intention of enjoying cameras stop buying them and driving prices up. I'd even use a really broad definition of 'enjoying' there.

“But but but they are enjoying it for the *wrong* reasons”

Since when does gatekeeping have to be effective to count? you are moving the goalposts, buddy.

 

[MattKing]

I have a feeling that hipsters would also have animated discussions about what it means to be a hipster.
This will really date me, and may not resonate with those who are not in North America, but I can't resist asking:
"Would Maynard G. Krebs have been a hipster?"

 

[cptrios]

“But but but they are enjoying it for the *wrong* reasons”

Since when does gatekeeping have to be effective to count? you are moving the goalposts, buddy.

Sorry, I probably should have explained that better. If you enjoy something, you enjoy it. I don’t care what your reasons are. Even if it just sits on a shelf looking pretty. The people who bother me are the ones who buy a camera, shoot one roll of film with it, realize how much of a hassle film is, then, crucially, stick it in a closet instead of putting it back into circulation. It’s an admittedly small subset.

 

[Helge]

“But but but they are enjoying it for the *wrong* reasons”

Since when does gatekeeping have to be effective to count? you are moving the goalposts, buddy.

If you are not effectively keeping a gate or at least making an attempt at it, it's "just" an explanatory argument and a stance.

There is people using a nice SLR as a necklace, never planning on really using it. Might not even have film in it. And maybe even mistreating it. It's legal of course, but it's morally not nice to look at.

Then there is the people where you can clearly feel that it's phase, riding a perceived local trend. You might even get them to admit it.
These guys will stick around for a year to two, handing a chewed out hull of a camera back, from where it had been given to them in perfect condition decades after manufacture.

Then there is the speculators who has the Scrooge version of GAS where they profusely and speculatively deal gear, often circling lemons sold as "perfect condition" to hungry naive buyers, soon to be jaded, cynical non-buyers.
A camera should change hands as few times as possible.
It's even a point in many adds: "one owner".
Every time a camera changes hands the likelyhood of it ending up in an arseholes hands goes up, and the accumulative wear and chances of first use accidents climbs.

Anyone regularly buying film has my vote though.

 

[henryvk]

If you are not effectively keeping a gate or at least making an attempt at it, it's "just" an explanatory argument and a stance.

There is people using a nice SLR as a necklace, never planning on really using it. Might not even have film in it. And maybe even mistreating it. It's legal of course, but it's morally not nice to look at.

Then there is the people where you can clearly feel that it's phase, riding a perceived local trend. You might even get them to admit it.
These guys will stick around for a year to two, handing a chewed out hull of a camera back, from where it had been given to them in perfect condition decades after manufacture.

Then there is the speculators who has the Scrooge version of GAS where they profusely and speculatively deal gear, often circling lemons sold as "perfect condition" to hungry naive buyers, soon to be jaded, cynical non-buyers.
A camera should change hands as few times as possible.
It's even a point in many adds: "one owner".
Every time a camera changes hands the likelyhood of it ending up in an arseholes hands goes up, and the accumulative wear and chances of first use accidents climbs.

Anyone regularly buying film has my vote though.

It’s weird and petty to keep a list of imagined grievances like that. Definitely unbecoming of a guy like you who otherwise is so friendly and helpful. Why would you care if someone “wears a camera for a necklace”?

 

[Helge]

It’s weird and petty to keep a list of imagined grievances like that. Definitely unbecoming of a guy like you who otherwise is so friendly and helpful. Why would you care if someone “wears a camera for a necklace”?

For the same reasons people object to poseurs in general.

It’s not petty to make observations and remember them, is it?

There is however words for people who frame everything they don’t like with negative expletives.
Straw man builder is one. Seewhatididthere.

 

[Pieter12]

From the Urban Dictionary:
"Hipsters are people that try too hard to be different (and genuinely do think that they're being different), by rejecting anything they deem to be too popular.
Ironically, so many other people also try too hard to be different that they all wind up being the exact same, so hipsters arent actually different at all, theyre just people that are snobbier and more annoying about their taste in "alternative" things, which are all popular now thanks to the other hipsters.
Hipsters pride themselves on liking things that no one else likes, and normally only really like them because they think no one else likes them and that theyre being unique. This is being delusional because all the other hipsters also like the same things."

 

[Sirius Glass]

From the Urban Dictionary:
"Hipsters are people that try too hard to be different (and genuinely do think that they're being different), by rejecting anything they deem to be too popular.
Ironically, so many other people also try too hard to be different that they all wind up being the exact same, so hipsters arent actually different at all, theyre just people that are snobbier and more annoying about their taste in "alternative" things, which are all popular now thanks to the other hipsters.
Hipsters pride themselves on liking things that no one else likes, and normally only really like them because they think no one else likes them and that theyre being unique. This is being delusional because all the other hipsters also like the same things."

Now I think we are beginning to nail it down.

 

[faberryman]

This definition easily applies to hippies or kids who thought they were cool and non-conventional in the late 1960s. But most of them listened to the same music, wore the same stringy hair, and wore the same jeans with a patterned cloth strip in the lower seam. They were exactly like the other hippies of that era.

What is most shocking is that many (most?) grew up to be totally conventional suburbanites and far more consumerist and avaricious than the parents that they railed against during their young hippie period. Exhibit 1: look at the pretentious McMansions that ring American cities. Exhibit 2: look at the size, number, and gaudy bling of the SUVs that park in said McMansion driveways.

I think most hippies from the 1960s are dead or dying and it is their children who occupy the suburban McMansions and drive the bling SUVs you are referring to. Who could blame them after having been brought up in a yurt?

 

[takilmaboxer]

A hipster is someone who wants to present an image that causes the observer to assume that they are possessed of special knowledge or awareness that makes them stand out from the crowd; that you are boring and they are not. As a human cultural type I'm sure it started in bohemian Europe way back a couple hundred years ago.
I once saw a Mom shopping with her teenage son, who was carrying a TLR. The Mom being my age I said "nice camera he's carrying" and she said, "don't tell him that, if someone your age does he'll immediately find another prop" and we both laughed.

 

[Steven Lee]

I found @Helge description of hipsters brilliant. Concise, accurate and to the point. A shortcut to have a copy-pasted identity of another group without having to do the work which goes into having one.

Understandably, the copy-pasters feel vulnerable when you bring up the copy-pasting. Apologies for not reading the entire thread, but this story, which could have been shared already, illustrates this perfectly.

 

[Pieter12]

It basically means exactly the same thing as in the fifties. A poseur, an inauthentic person who is only doing "it" to borrow some personality and identity from the realm of people who has it.
Not a case of faking it till you make it, because the hipster generally have little to no real interest in the line of work, hobby or group whom they are stealing feathers from.
You don't often see very rich or poor people being posers. It's an almost exclusively bourgeois concept.
It's a (relatively cheap and available) ways to be someone, and not drown in the maelstrom of mediocrity and the constant reminder of the other 8 billion people, that is modern popculture.
Of course ironically they just create their own local maelstroms because these people lack the mental capacity to think of something truly new.

In the 50's a hipster was a person that was "hip" to avant-garde trends. Today's hipster ignores the avant-garde and looks backward to be different.

 

[Helge]

From the Urban Dictionary:
"Hipsters are people that try too hard to be different (and genuinely do think that they're being different), by rejecting anything they deem to be too popular.
Ironically, so many other people also try too hard to be different that they all wind up being the exact same, so hipsters arent actually different at all, theyre just people that are snobbier and more annoying about their taste in "alternative" things, which are all popular now thanks to the other hipsters.
Hipsters pride themselves on liking things that no one else likes, and normally only really like them because they think no one else likes them and that theyre being unique. This is being delusional because all the other hipsters also like the same things."

Urban Dictionary‽
For starters Wikipedias article is very good, especially this part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_(contemporary_subculture)#Critical_analysis

In the 50's a hipster was a person that was "hip" to avant-garde trends. Today's hipster ignores the avant-garde and looks backward to be different.

The 50s hipster and Beatnik emulated black culture and bohemian culture without really grokking it.

Just like todays hipsters do and don’t.

The famous beat poets did. But they’d been more than a little cross to be called beatniks and hipsters.


Hipster has become kind of a tired word, but the basic ideas it describes hasn’t changed much.

Two of the main axioms being faux authenticity and fabricated downtrodden-nes and a collective notion and self image of being heroic underdogs.
Stuff that doesn’t take much work and is basically free to emulate passably well.

 

[VinceInMT]

It basically means exactly the same thing as in the fifties. A poseur, an inauthentic person who is only doing "it" to borrow some personality and identity from the realm of people who has it.

That certainly exists in many other genres. Just look at guys who ride Harleys or people who play golf. Both adorn themselves in costumes to gain acceptance from other costume wearers.