Highest Resolution Fine Grain Developer

FilmIs4Ever · Mar 17, 2005

I'm sure I'm going to get 50 different answers with this post, but I just want a general survery of what everyone thinks the best developer is in this regard. By "highest resolution fine grain" I mean the developer that gives the sharpest pictures and finest grain without losing speed, disolving the grains in the image at the cost of sharpness and so forth. I was very disturbed to find that some developers actually have elements that eat away the edges of silver crystals in a negative as it is being developed merely to help conceal grain. I'd rather have grain than unsharp pictures. Any comments?

~Karl Borowski

fhovie · Mar 17, 2005

titrisol · Mar 17, 2005

IMHO DDX or Clayton F76+
I have heard wonders of Xtol but due to the large size of their packs haven;t boutght it.

Neal · Mar 17, 2005

Xtol. Well worth trying. If you want to trade grain for acutance, dilute it. Lots of folks dilute as much as 1:3. Mix and store it properly and you should have no problems.

Neal Wydra

Will S · Mar 17, 2005

pyro

The theory with pyro is that it fills in the area between grain with stain. I use prescysol (or however you spell it) and pyrocat-hd and hardly ever see grain in my focuser.

Best,

Will

JohnArs · Mar 17, 2005

XTOL is the winner, tested in a german lab mag some years ago.
When I did an exibition from 35mm negs pushed up to 30x40cm many people asked me it is MF isn't it?

fschifano · Mar 17, 2005

Count another vote for XTOL here. It's good stuff and doesn't go bad as long as you're careful about storage. Completely full small bottles is the key to keeping it. I like it diluted, but when I really want fine grain, I use it full strength. It will give you a little bit of extra shadow detail over the more common MQ developers as well.

garryl · Mar 17, 2005

FilmIs4Ever said:
I'm sure I'm going to get 50 different answers with this post, but I just want a general survery of what everyone thinks the best developer is in this regard. By "highest resolution fine grain" I mean the developer that gives the sharpest pictures and finest grain without losing speed, disolving the grains in the image at the cost of sharpness and so forth. I was very disturbed to find that some developers actually have elements that eat away the edges of silver crystals in a negative as it is being developed merely to help conceal grain. I'd rather have grain than unsharp pictures. Any comments?

~Karl Borowski

I'm going to go on someones's kill list for this, but--
http://www.imx.nl/photosite/technical/BWinfo/BW-1.html

Peter De Smidt · Mar 17, 2005

Xtol.

-Peter
www.desmidt.net

djklmnop · Mar 17, 2005

XTOL seems to work better on T-grain films than it does on standard grain emulsions. How about Microdol-x and Perceptol? I've gotten amazingly fine grain when combined with Ilford Pan F 50.

fschifano · Mar 17, 2005

garryl said:
I'm going to go on someones's kill list for this, but--
http://www.imx.nl/photosite/technical/BWinfo/BW-1.html

Certainly not my kill list.

Tom Stanworth · Mar 17, 2005

A lot support Xtol, but this is not a sharp dev, but a fine grain dev and superb in its own right. It produces relatively low acutance tho. As for very fine grain AND acutance, this is a near impossible balancing act. The best I have seen in terms of balance was Exactol Lux which produced very fine grain and sharpness exceeding any other non staining dev I had used. In terms of fine grain and reasonable acutance DDX is pretty good but Aculux 2 is really fine and not mushy. So much depends on the film used......

Claire Senft · Mar 17, 2005

PYROCAT HD

Extremely versatile.

Oldtimer Jay · Mar 17, 2005

Hi All,

My favorites for this goal are PMK, Formulary FX2 and Xtol 1-2.

One of the nicest combinations I have found for sharpness, tonality and very fine grain is new Plus X in PMK. Old plus X was OK, but the new version is much superior in terms of both grain and tonality. If you haven't tried it in the past two years, believe me it is a revalation. FP4 + used to be my favorite but IMHO new Plus X has equally nice tonality and finer, crisper grain.

Jay

tbm · Mar 18, 2005

I soup Delta 100 and Fuji Acros 100 in Microdol-X (1:3 at 75 degrees for 17-18 minutes) and get phenomenally gorgeous negatives and prints. The last two days I've been experimenting with Neopan 400 to determine which developer I will ultimately prefer with it. The first day I souped it in Xtol 1:1 and yesterday in Microdol-X 1:3. Analyzing the negatives with both 4x and 10x Schneider loupes, the Microdol-X negs reveal dazzling clarity, sharpness, and tonality and the Xtol negs slightly less re all three factors. However, I've got to make some prints in order to make a true analytical comparison and establish a preference.

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 18, 2005

Pyrocat-HD with minimum or stand agitation.

Tom Stanworth · Mar 18, 2005

Tom Hoskinson said:
Pyrocat-HD with minimum or stand agitation.

Yes, try it with HP5 for stunning acutance and crisp defined visible grain.

Acros with Dixactol (therefore I guess P'cat HD would be similar) gave grainless 20x24s (from 5x4) with acutance that clearly (from 2 ft away) blew HC110 away. I did side by side negs and the difference in acutance and halation prevention was enormous.

Exactol lux was very fine grained so great for 35mm and coarser 120 films when fine grain required.

Maine-iac · Mar 18, 2005

FilmIs4Ever said:
I'm sure I'm going to get 50 different answers with this post, but I just want a general survery of what everyone thinks the best developer is in this regard. By "highest resolution fine grain" I mean the developer that gives the sharpest pictures and finest grain without losing speed, disolving the grains in the image at the cost of sharpness and so forth. I was very disturbed to find that some developers actually have elements that eat away the edges of silver crystals in a negative as it is being developed merely to help conceal grain. I'd rather have grain than unsharp pictures. Any comments?

~Karl Borowski

Any of the Gainer-inspired Phenidone/ascorbic acid variations. Super-fine grain, excellent sharpness, great tonal scale.

What do you mean by "without losing film speed?" I don't know many photographers who accept the manufacturer's ISO rating without personal testing to find the actual film speed for the camera shutter, lens, developer combo that gives you the best negs. I rate Fuji ACROS, for example, at ISO 50 when I'm shooting it in my Rollei SL66 with a yellow filter over the lens (which I almost always use). Without the filter, I'd rate it at ISO 80.

Larry

Werewolfman · Dec 26, 2024

I suggest using Kodak D-23.

dokko · Dec 26, 2024

It‘s a rather old thread, but something that always interests me as well

One of the problems of course is that the terms resolution and fine grain are tricky because they depend on image structure (ie grain looks different in a resolution pattern, in an photograph of sand or in an uniform sky).
And different films react different to different developers too.

The current wisdom seems to be that Spur HRX, Spur Omega X, and Jobo Alpha bring some benefits in this regards. I was planning to do a comparison last year but got swamped with work.
Hope to squeeze it in in January.

loccdor · Dec 26, 2024

When I want fine grain I use a fine grained film. When looking for the highest resolution I use my highest resolution lenses, stop them down to their optimum apertures, and use good technique (tripod, mirror lockup, or adequately fast shutter speed).

Avoid Harman Phoenix, avoid Delta 3200 or T-MAX P3200, avoid Rodinal... increase your negative size in comparison to your print size. Give adequate exposure. Follow that, and it's pretty hard not to get fine grain or detail.

The difference between most developers is minimal compared to the other considerations.

retina_restoration · Dec 26, 2024

loccdor said:
When I want fine grain I use a fine grained film. When looking for the highest resolution I use my highest resolution lenses, stop them down to their optimum apertures, and use good technique.

The difference between most developers is minimal compared to the other considerations.

This is the wisest thing anyone has said so far (and yes, I know this question was asked nearly twenty years ago).

The OP asked about a developer that gives ""highest resolution fine grain" I mean the developer that gives the sharpest pictures and finest grain without losing speed, disolving the grains in the image at the cost of sharpness and so forth."

That's a lot like asking "What color should I paint my house to give the wood the best permanence and improve the design of the building?"

Such matters are secondary to the materials you choose to build from and the design of the thing. Same goes for working with film; if you want the highest resolution and finest grain, then choose a fine grain film that is known for its acutance/resolution properties. Sure, you can defeat some of these features by choosing the wrong developer - let's be honest, Rodinal is not going to do you any favors in terms of suppressing grain characteristics - but the grain and resolution are baked in to the film you work with. Modifying those traits through choice of developer is going to have a very modest effect.

Rudeofus · Dec 26, 2024

retina_restoration said:
Such matters are secondary to the materials you choose to build from and the design of the thing. Same goes for working with film; if you want the highest resolution and finest grain, then choose a fine grain film that is known for its acutance/resolution properties. Sure, you can defeat some of these features by choosing the wrong developer - let's be honest, Rodinal is not going to do you any favors in terms of suppressing grain characteristics - but the grain and resolution are baked in to the film you work with. Modifying those traits through choice of developer is going to have a very modest effect.

All this, and "don't overdevelop". All the fine grained film and the finest grain developer will not succeed, if important parts of your image end up in D=2 area. Been there, done that :-(

brbo · Dec 26, 2024

loccdor said:
The difference between most developers is minimal compared to the other considerations.

Yet, the question is (was) about DEVELOPERS. Not which film has the finest grain, not which lenses have highest resolution...

retina_restoration · Dec 26, 2024

brbo said:
Yet, the question is (was) about DEVELOPERS. Not which film has the finest grain, not which lenses have highest resolution...

Yes, of course -but I wanted to point out that the OP was asking the wrong question if the goal was optimal resolution and finest grain. The choice of developer is going to play a minor role in the search for these qualities. Choose a film that is more likely to get the results you seek. So many people ask this kind of question, thinking by choosing a specific developer that they are going to get TMX quality negatives from Tri-X that has been underexposed and pushed. If you're going to go off chasing dragons at least make sure you're after the right dragon.

Highest Resolution Fine Grain Developer

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