High speed developer

[Kloppervok]

For a project that I'm going to start soon, I would like the flexibility to be able to develop neopan 400(120) at EI3200 or higher. I'm not worried about grain, however, I am worried about getting every piece of data that I possibly can out of the lowest possible zones that I can get without building up base fog.

Is there a developer than you guys can recommend for this? I'd make it from scratch if necessary.

 

[Stan160]

Microphen is listed on the Massive Dev Chart with a time of 16 minutes for Neopan 400 exposed at 3200. You could try mixing your own ID-68, which is close or identical to the commercial Microphen formula.

I've had good results with HP5+ at 3200 in ID-68 stock, but never used Neopan.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

When I needed that kind of speed I preferred XP1 then later XP-2 push processed in C41 chemistry, I've not tried the Fuji CN 400 but that would probably push better than Neopan 400.

ian

 

[Athiril]

Someone recommended Super Soup to me.

This what Id recommend trying..

You'll need a spare dev tank to avoid potential contamination..

Load your film into one tank after exposure, place a drop of mercury in there and nothing else, seal it for 2 days, then transfer it to another tank for development. Whether that be in super soup or something else etc.

Should help with shadows.

 

[Kloppervok]

Ian, I like xp-2 as well, but it's not available in 120.
Also, what makes microphen or id-68 good for pushing?

 

[wclark5179]

Any thoughts on using Ilford Delta 3200 Professional.

 

[Ian Grant]

Ian, I like xp-2 as well, but it's not available in 120.
Also, what makes microphen or id-68 good for pushing?

120 XP-2 is available butyou need to push process for yourself, i have the times here somewhere.

Microphen/ID-68 is Phenidone based and gives better inherent speed than a similar Metol based developer, in addition the sulphite level is lower than ID-11/D76 which helps further,

Ian

 

[Kloppervok]

Well, the choice of np400 was a price issue. Also, i like the tonal rendition when pulled. Using ID-68, is there something I can add to further reduce base fog?

 

[Ian Grant]

you shouldn't need to, I used ID-68 with HP5 back in the 70's pre XP1 and base fog was never an issue. PQ devels are far cleaner in terms of base fog than the corresponding MQ.

Ian

 

[Kloppervok]

Great then. I'll give it a try.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Mercury vapor works on film. It is deadly poison to you. It was widely used decades ago before the health effects were known.

Do you realize you have to call an EPA cleanup crew if you break one of the new mercury containing fluorescent light bulbs?

Mercury in the brain causes damge no other heavy metal does. Look up Trimerisol, the mercury preservative in multidose vaccine containers. It causes alzimers and parkinsons in old people and autism in the young.

Buy a tripod or faster lens instead.

 

[Kloppervok]

It's not speed for convenience's sake. It's about trying to get a specific aesthetic and tonality, and pushing my limits. The tripod still going to be used.

 

[CBG]

...Do you realize you have to call an EPA cleanup crew if you break one of the new mercury containing fluorescent light bulbs? ...

Check out: www.epa.gov/hg/spills/#fluorescent Cleanup crews are not recommended by the government.

... Look up Trimerisol, the mercury preservative in multidose vaccine containers. It causes alzimers and parkinsons in old people and autism in the young. ...

Those assertions have long since been largely discredited, although they received very wide publicity in their time and have cause many people to believe what you just wrote.

... Buy a tripod ...

Good advice.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Most speed developers will give you about one to one and a half stops, measured as shadow detail, over the nominal ISO speed. I've gotten more experimenting with the Perfection XR-1 formula--

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/XR-1/xr-1.html

--but not with good contrast for normal lighting situations. If you're shooting at night under contrasty lighting, like street lamps, it may be a good choice.

 

[keithwms]

How about shooting a slower film with a supercompensating developer.

 

[keithwms]

P.S. RE: thimerosal, it is unfortunate that one person led the whole medical research astray and because of his bad practices, the whole line of inquiry is discredited. Now people think that just because the thimerosal research was botched, the concerns about organic mercury are no longer warranted. Research can be blatantly false and take down the good reasearch along with it, I see it all the time. And look, any way you slice it, the organic mercury compounds are very poorly understood in the physiological context, as they are exceedingly difficult to trace. And they have killed at least one very prominent chemist who thought she understood them.

In the end, the autism-related research may well have been unethical/wrong/misguided... but mark my words: we will eventually understand the neurochemistry better than we do now, and when we do, it'll suprise some people and not surprise others. Meanwhile, instead of being cautious, we will continue to risk the mental health of a generation of children. Could be thimerosal, may not be thimerosal... who is profiting by passing on the risk that it isn't all well and good for all patients? The industry pushing this stuff is about profit, not about safety. What if we eventually find out that, just like the tobacco companies, they actually know more than they care to divulge? Or that they simply didn't test long-term effects while the govt was pushing them to manufacture vaccine at historically unprecedented rates?!

Sorry to go off topic....

 

[Kloppervok]

Can i see some examples of work with these supercompensating developers?

I've worked with delta 100 @ 1600 with decent results with a low dilution of F-76+

 

[keithwms]

I posted one some time back, it was a night shot with, I don't know, way past 12 stops of range. The range was basically unmeterable. The POTA handled it like a champ. In my neg I can see detail everywhere. Alas I didn't shoot another neg and use normal dev, so I am not sure it's a good example.

I think the main proviso with supercompensating devs like POTA is that most of the added tonal range is on the knee/shoulder, i.e. it handles overexposure well. So the strategy is to go ahead and place highlights way higher than you normally might, but keep in mind that (as is always the case) if you don't give the shadows enough exposure then the detail will be lost there.

There are plenty of other ways to get compensation, POTA is just the world record holder (AFAIK) when it comes to overall range captured.

Anyway, just experiment...!

 

[CBG]

... RE: thimerosal, it is unfortunate that one person led the whole medical research astray and because of his bad practices, the whole line of inquiry is discredited. Now people think that just because the thimerosal research was botched, the concerns about organic mercury are no longer warranted. Research can be blatantly false and take down the good reasearch along with it...

My point and my concern, however expressed, was that the assertions from that faked and botched research on thimerosal cannot be trusted. It concerns me that those assertions are endlessly and unreservedly beamed out to the public as given truth. Such assertions play all too effectively to the fears of those who suspect all "chemicals" and especially to the particular fears of large numbers of parents.

The tendency to engender undiscerning fear of one or another thing through a mindless media "feeding frenzy" are a particular area of concern for me. Your excellent point that the assertions, even if not proven true, are also not yet proven false, is however, just as true and important. The logic of research doesn't play well to brief sound bites - my sound bite included.