Help with Wollensak Vitax #5 portrait lens

[floridarich]

Hello everyone. I recently came into possession of a very large Wollensak Vitax #5 portrait lens. By my estimation it is in very poor shape, but I'd like to use it if I can. However, there are some apparent issues I'd like to solve first if possible!

I have noticed the aperture ring appears to be seized. It will not spin at all, though it appears to be stuck at around f11 if I could guess. With that said, there is a small lever on the side of the barrel that temporarily closes the aperture all the way down when I press it. the aperture immediately springs back to its place when I release the lever. The 0-5 knob at the back of the barrel turns only a small amount before stopping. The inside of the lens is also quite dirty and I'd like to clean it if possible. So then, here's my list of questions in short:

1. How can I open the camera to clean the lenses and the inside of the barrel? Is that practical for a novice like myself?
2. How can I fix the seized aperture ring? Obviously, I'd like to use the aperture if possible!


Thank you so much for your assistance and thoughts!

 

[removed account4]

Hi floridarich

The shutter operates with 2 sets of iris blades, one is the shutter and the other the aperture, and they are made of a material that dissolves with some cleaning solvents that people use to clean shutters... Don't use lighter fluid ...

I'm not sure if you were able to find anything about how to operate your shutter, they are sometimes finicky, and while they are actuallyh kind of simple mechanisms, sometimes people remove parts, or damage/jam up the shutter.
Eddie Gunks was nice enough to post this video of a studio shutter a while ago and it gives a run down on how it operates.


If your aperture is jammed/stuck you might want to remove the front and back of the lens from the shutter, remove the face plate of the shutter and look inside to see if there is something obstructing the ring from sliding. I can't really comment on how to fix the fuzzy knob, other than taking the lens elements out of the rear barrel and see if there is stuff in there making it impossible to move the elements inside the lens. Sometimes it is just old lubricant that seizes things up, other times lenses are dropped and get bent so things don't work right &c.

Good luck with your 16" Vitax !

John

 

[shutterfinger]

The lens cells should unscrew from the lens barrel and or the lens barrels should unscrew from from the shutter, all standard right hand threads.
The shutter should have f markings, what are they?
If you see the aperture operate that says its good but the limiting/adjustment ring is stuck.
With the aperture open can you see through the lens? If so the shutter is open on T or stuck on B.
Can you post pictures of the lens and shutter?

 

[floridarich]

Thanks to you all. Very helpful information! It means a lot. In response to some of your questions and observations, please see below:

• With the help of a vise I was able to unscrew the two main halves of the lens. Thanks for that info! I was able to shake out a lot of the dirt, grime, and even a spider that was in there.
• I realized the soft focus knob does turn all the way from 0 to 5, it just takes a lot of effort.
• The ƒ numbers appear to range from 3.8 to 64
• Again, with the help of a vise I was able to forcibly turn my aperture ring all the way to 64, and then back all the way to 3.8 (wide open). It is still incredibly hard to turn and there's no way I can do it without the vise. All the mentions of very sensitive, dissolvable aperture blades makes me nervous to try and use any kind of lubricant or penetrating fluid anywhere on this lens.
• With the aperture open, yes, I can see straight through the lens; when I flick the shutter lever to "closed" the blades do not close all the way. In addition, when it is in the "closed" position, a flick of the shutter lever makes them open and close as you'd hope, but definitely not at any repeatable or predictable speed. I think it's just a little too gunky and grimy in that area still.

~~~~~~

Here are some new questions or concerns of mine:

1. Now that I've separated the two main halves of the lens, I find I can't put them back together again because the threads pitch is so small and precise; it's so easy to cross thread this thing now... Any tips on putting it back together straight?
2. The inside faces of the lens elements have a moldy look to them. When I rub hard enough with my finger the layer seems to mostly come off. I'd rather not use my finger if there is a better way; plus, I don't want any oils from my skin remaining on the glass. How can I properly clean them?

At the following link you can find pictures of the lens (in case they are helpful.) https://photos.app.goo.gl/93qU5GXSEuviyxcx8

Thanks so much to each of you for your invaluable insight! As a side note, I'm not super concerned about the shutter working since I use my large format stuff for wet plate work and I don't use shutters.

 

[shutterfinger]

With the help of a vise

You do like to live dangerously don't you?
Use 90% Isopropyl Alcohol for cleaning of the lens cells, inside of the barrels, and the soft focus and aperture levers.
The barrels are likely thin brass and easily deformed. Once fully cleaned carefully start the barrels back onto the shutter making sure the gap is even all around.
The face plate of the shutter is easy to remove which will give access to the shutter mechanism.
The aperture lever should have a trace of light grease (white lithium or similar) between it and the shutter case, the soft focus pinion should have a light clock/machine oil. DO NOT USE 3IN1 Oil or WD40 in any camera gear.
TriFlow https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tri-Flow-S...Penetrating-PTFE/122745520717?epid=2254848745 used sparingly works well.
Less is more, too much oil acts like glue. A straight pin point drop is usually sufficient.

 

[removed account4]

Thanks for the pix ! I'm guessing the lens damage is good for wet plates you are doing ( à la sally mann? ), I hope you didn't spend much $ on it cuz, it looks pretty roached.

You might see if Adam &al. at SK Grimes can make you a barrel for your lens if your shutter is kaahput and your aperture ring is so jammed it won't move, or you can't get the lens back on the shutter / don't need it..
A barrel might be easier to deal with that than a broken / damaged / seized studio shutter. from my experience using Vitax, you will want to stop down a little bit to focus before you open the lens up and shoot it wide open. you probably can get away without the defocus knob, it still focuses fine with the rear elements stationary. To clean the actual glass i think some people use watered down Hydrogen Peroxide . (Look up posts made by Jim Galli he posted his recipe back in the day.)

You will want to use a spanner wrench to remove the lens elements from their barrels and maybe soak it in the H2O+H2O2, be careful though I'm not sure with the canadian balsam separation your lens exhibits if it will do more harm than good ( I'm thinking fluids might seep in there through capillary action ) --- you might be better off with a damp rag slowly cleaning it rather than soaking IDK. With the elements removed, you can also eradicate the rest of the insect colony &c that is living in there too! If you get it working, just to let you know even in great condition lens, with it on- camera the lens is so big and heavy there is a lot of tension on the back of the barrel so the knob won't really move that element ez, it will be tight. The whole purpose of the knob is to defocus your stopped down image to give it some blur when you aren't shooting wide open ( its like back focusing, kind of sort of ).

Since you have the lens removed from the shutter can you unscrew the screws holding the plate on its front and get some canned air and give it a blast to remove whatever pebbles, twigs and other debris that might be keeping it from moving smoothly I don't think that shutter had any lubricant in it besides graphite I'd be careful with using oils and lithium greese and other materials in there.

You might consider sending the lens and shutter to someone like SK Grimes outside of Providence for repair, or Zacks in Providence RI, or Carol Flutot in California or alphaxbetax.com in DC for an overhaul. They have experience with these lenses and shutters and might be able to machine new parts if some are missing, and for a few dollars will be able to fix it instead of a home remedy and maybe damaging it more... so when you get tired of it you can sell it for a few more dineros/
John
ps That all said, if you get frustrated with it and want to sell it, let me know ! I miss mine and I'm happy to take yours off your hands ( roached and all )

pps Here are two Wollensak catalogs--- one from 1906-7 that has info on your lens
when it was called the "Royal Portrait Lens" http://cameraeccentric.com/html/info/wollensak_10.html
and this one from 1919 when it was called the Vitax
http://cameraeccentric.com/html/info/wollensak_13.html

 

[shutterfinger]

From a Lens Collectors Vade Mecum:
Vitax Portrait f3.8 10-13.5in, then 16, 20in. This was a Petzval type lens. It had softness
adjustment and the field was rather curved. It was listed in 1914. There were conversion lenses for 20in lens to
16in, about 4.125in dia.
Vesta Portrait f5.0 6.0, 7.0, 10, 11.5, 14in This was another Petzval, rather like Vitax, but
slower and without the softness adjustment. It could be used as a long lens for big heads by removing the rear
cell and fitting the front meniscus lens reversed at the back- this was not an uncommon feature, but not all
makes had the threads the same to allow it.

I had a Vesta in studio shutter. It was a single meniscus lens at each end with no cemented elements. It was in a #5 studio shutter. Someone had made two shutter blades from cardboard and it leaked light like a sieve. I bonded two layers of expired, unprocessed color film together and cut new shutter blades from it and installed in the shutter. The studio shutter is not that complicated and easy to work on if you have medium to above average mechanical skills. The Vesta is on the taking camera of my avatar photo.

If you take a cotton swab and put a dab of white lithium grease about the size of a straight pin head on one end, wipe the slide area of the operating lever with light pressure the wipe a second time with the clean end of the swab just touching the surface it will leave the proper amount of grease called a trace. A trace of oil or grease is all that is needed.
I don't have pictures of the shutter opened. The barrels are thin and will distort if uneven pressure is put on them when attaching making them hard to turn.

P.S.
The shutter blades are the aperture blades. The aperture setting limits how wide the shutter will open when operated.
The shutter is designed to be held open for the exposure then closed but will operate at about 1/25 with a bulb release or quick operation with a standard cable release.

 

[floridarich]

Thanks so much for the information, everyone! I successfully reattached the two main halves after cleaning the interior glass with alcohol. I'll most likely leave the aperture wide open (useful for wet plate), and perhaps try and lubricate that aperture ring one day. Next step will be to mount this to my Kodak 2D! Excited!

 

[floridarich]

Come to think of it, does anyone have any thoughts on a good way to remove the mounting flange? I really don't want to have to put this thing back in the vise. Would any kind of penetrating fluid work well with helping loosen up the flange? Thanks!

 

[cowanw]

You could mount the flange on any piece of wood that itself could go in the vice. this would give you the ability to apply more torque without damaging the barrel.
But these are quite valuable lenses. Would it not be worth having these things done professionally rather than risking loosing value by distressing?

 

[removed account4]

some things un-seize when you stick them in the freezer
if Bill's idea doesn't work off the bat, put the whole thing in the freezer and then try it

 

[shutterfinger]

Penetrating oil will work if left for a few hours to a day or two but don't let it get onto the lens or shutter.

 

[cowanw]

You might find this is too big a lens for a 2D or put blocks under the lenses to take the weight off the rise mechanism.

 

[removed account4]

You might find this is too big a lens for a 2D or put blocks under the lenses to take the weight off the rise mechanism.

YES! or a 2nd tripod ( is that what you mean by blocks Bill? ) that 16"lens is a monster ! I'd worry about the 4" lensboard too it might be too small for the flange/ rear of the lens. The 13.5"'s rear element was almost too big for a 4"board

 

[cowanw]

I set the front standard back of the front rails a bit and just put a block of wood between the front rail and the lens. The 2nd tripod idea is much better. There is just too much lens in front of a quite puny lens board holder screws.

 

[removed account4]

Bill -
Thanks for the info. A block sounds a lot less cumbersome than bringing a spare tripod...

I know what you mean about big lens ! The #5 might not even fit in the 4" - 4 1/2" hole I know a 14" Verito's rear element doesn't, neither does a 14"Veritar, IDK maybe a 16" Vitax has a cartoonish telescope look of a gigantic font element and a puny rear one?
===
added later: I just read the mounting flange of a 16" Vitax is 6" in diameter ... I hope the OP isn't SOL..

John Garo would have had something with a 6" lensboard !

John

 

[cowanw]

My Vitax has a 4 1/8 inch back glass and only mounts on a Cambo board with a extension adaptor that allows the use of the entire opening while still bolted to the Cambo board. The regular mounting flange is a couple of inches larger in diameter. For their size, Vitax's are light, but very long and the torque out front multiplies their need for strength at the front of the camera.
Frankly, floridarich, I am worried you are going to wreck a desirable lens or a camera or both. I hope you are a good machinist.

 

[floridarich]

Thanks again everyone. I was finally able to unscrew the mounting flange, so now I'm going to attach it to a lens board. My 8x10 Kodak 2D has a lens board opening that is 6x6 inches, so I should be in the clear for attaching it to the camera. As a few of you have pointed out, yes I am going to use a second tripod to support the weight of the lens. I don't want to overwork my poor camera without it!

I've never had a Petzval lens before, but I am excited to make a few plates with it.

 

[jimgalli]

Something I've used for about 20 years on all of this stuff and will not dissolve or attack the phenolic blades. https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7651322 It's made for tire repairs, but it works like magic on stuck threads and leaves no residue (although dirt that it floats out will be a residue that you wipe up with cotton swabs etc.) Works like magic on old lenses with very tight aperture rings. Get it at the Napa store.