Help with options for low light night time street photography

[joho]

Night photos at 1/4`s __ f/4,5 __ 30mm ASA3200
color cast is a working art`d`flu.
the cats where a subject that will not sit sltill...

 

[dbbowen2]

Your image of the news reporter is a great example. It is one of the more powerful images you presented, IMO. The shallow depth of field was very well used. It focused all of our attention to the most important part of the image in such a way that also added to the tension and the uncertainty we see in the subject's reaction to her surroundings.

A bean bag can be used to cradle camera on brick walls and uneven surfaces...bracing against telephone poles, etc. Have fun!

Wow thank you very much for the kind words! I think next time i will try and focus more on the people within the scene and less the scene. They are much better illuminated anyways haha

Any chance your project would work in black and white? I have shot only 2 rolls, but so far I've been impressed with Ilford Delta 3200 exposed at EI 1600.

This photo was exposed at f11 for 1/4 second (I used a tripod). So, f8 at 1/8 > f5.6 at 1/15 > f4 at 1/30 > f2.8 at 1/60? Personally, I don't consider any of those to be hand-holdable except 1/60.

you know, i did not even think about B&W. I have a few great film photography stores local to me (one of the sponsors of this forum, bluemoon is local) ill try and see if i can find that locally before this weekend! 1/60 would be 100% doable and 2.8 would allow me the use of my 28mm f2.8 lens as well!

I have no issue handholding at 1/4 second but as always every human is different. I've learned to hold my breath, slow down my heart beat and rest my elbows against my chest to help steady everything. I've successfully hand-held exposures of 2 to 4 seconds. 1/4 and 1/8 are pretty easy for me. I think most people who's hands do not shake could hand hold at 1/15

The obsession with fast shutter speeds is a relatively recent thing brought on my mega-ISO offered by digital cameras. Back in the day, we didn't have that option. Also worth remembering that a little movement of people and vehicles is not always a bad thing.

I think i was so wrapped up in trying to get the perfect image that i kinda didnt think about having some movement from people and vehicles. I dont think i have that shaky of hands but i wasnt really as focused on it at the time haha

 

[dbbowen2]

Night photos at 1/4`s __ f/4,5 __ 30mm ASA3200
color cast is a working art`d`flu.
the cats where a subject that will not sit sltill...

and they still turned out great, what film did you use at 3200 asa?

 

[loccdor]

For tripod-less photography lit by street lamps I use Portra 800, the Canon EOS Elan 7E and image stabilized lenses such as the Canon EF 28mm f/2.8 IS, or the Tamron 35/45/85mm f/1.8 VC.

The stabilization of these lenses allows me a lowest handholding speed of 1/4 second for the wider and 1/15 second for the longer lenses.

Tamron 45mm:

Canon 28mm f/2.8 IS:

Both very slow shutter speeds.

If I'm using a non-stabilized lens in these conditions, I look for trees, mailboxes, walls, etc. to brace myself on when taking the shot. And I plan on taking several tries of each shot with very careful breathing, paying careful attention to how much the viewfinder is shaking before I press the button.

I haven't found that pushing C-41 has much use. The shadows stay quite dark especially in streetlamp conditions.

While you can try ultrafast lenses such as f/1.2s, you may find that the depth of field is to shallow or the sharpness is too compromised for many subjects. And they still won't let you shoot in as low of light as the image stabilized lenses.

 

[loccdor]

100 speed film and a slow lens. The camera was simply set on a counter and pressed firmly down for the shot.

 

[reddesert]

There's already been a lot of good advice, most of it in the sense that you have to cope with how little light there is and adjust to it; there is no film-processing magic bullet. It is a good idea to pick your focal lengths based on what you need to frame the subjects / how close you are, rather than the fastest f-stop. So for ex if you have a 28/2.8, 35/2, and 85/1.2, the 85mm isn't necessarily better because faster; it also magnifies camera shake and has little DOF so you need to nail focus (but if you nail focus results can be good).

Camera meters don't always do well with night scenes, so using auto mode may not work well. If you can meter an important part of the subject, like people's faces in light, you can set the exposure for that and let the shadows fall where they may. It's ok for a night scene to have large expanses of very-dark, which an averaging meter doesn't know. If you can't isolate the faces you can try getting your palm into a similar light level and meter that. Sometimes when taking night street scenes long ago, I think I would just set the camera on a fixed exposure I could just-about handhold, like 1/30 at f/2, and concentrate on focus rather than exposure.

If you can brace the camera against a wall or street sign it should let you get away with a slower shutter speed.

IMO, grainy shadows often come out better in B&W than color; in B&W they're just grainy, while in color they're sort of mottled / murky.

 

[joho]

dbbowen2@ It was done with a D800 {sorry_digital}
but is about the same. try 135mm film 400asa pushed 1600 lens at f/2.8 1/8`s ///

 

[Sirius Glass]

I am giving a second go at low light street photography where the area is illuminated by a few street lights and some flood lights. No other light sources available and no flash.

Last week I tried shooting Reflx Labs 800T at box speed and got somewhat decent results but had to shoot my lenses wide open, and at slower shutter speeds… which resulted in a lot of missed focus and shaky images.

The 35mm lens I actually want to use goes down to f2 and unless the conditions were perfect, the light didn’t allow for wide shots.

I have an 85/1.2 that I had to switch over to, but even then I had to shoot at 1.2 or 1.4 which didn’t give me the dof I was looking for. And I had to back up pretty far to get any usable shots


This weekend I am hoping to try one of these 3 options:

Portra 800 pushed to 1600
Portra 400 pushed to 1600
Portra 400 pushed to 3200


Does anyone have any experience with these? I’ve never pushed film before and could use some tips or guidance.

My thought process with pushing the film is I can get back a stop or two of aperture or ss to either allow the use of my 35mm lens or get better dof and more of the scene in focus and not blow focus so much. The downside is I think the shadows will be super grainy and won’t have much information in them?

Thanks in advance. I’ll be shooting at a protest at night time so I want as much info is as I can get

Welcome to Photrio!

I have used the box speed whenever I photograph. For night photography I have been using the Jiffy Calculator [https://kusner.com/downloads/MVLibrary/JiffyCalculator.pdf] since the first release in 1963.

 

[dbbowen2]

For tripod-less photography lit by street lamps I use Portra 800, the Canon EOS Elan 7E and image stabilized lenses such as the Canon EF 28mm f/2.8 IS, or the Tamron 35/45/85mm f/1.8 VC.

The stabilization of these lenses allows me a lowest handholding speed of 1/4 second for the wider and 1/15 second for the longer lenses.

Tamron 45mm:

View attachment 409499

Canon 28mm f/2.8 IS:

View attachment 409500

Both very slow shutter speeds.

If I'm using a non-stabilized lens in these conditions, I look for trees, mailboxes, walls, etc. to brace myself on when taking the shot. And I plan on taking several tries of each shot with very careful breathing, paying careful attention to how much the viewfinder is shaking before I press the button.

I haven't found that pushing C-41 has much use. The shadows stay quite dark especially in streetlamp conditions.

While you can try ultrafast lenses such as f/1.2s, you may find that the depth of field is to shallow or the sharpness is too compromised for many subjects. And they still won't let you shoot in as low of light as the image stabilized lenses.

geez im glad i asked, i was about to push 2 rolls of portra 800 before i posted this thread haha. You are totally right about the 1.2 aperture on both counts. going to try different bracing options this weekend!

There's already been a lot of good advice, most of it in the sense that you have to cope with how little light there is and adjust to it; there is no film-processing magic bullet. It is a good idea to pick your focal lengths based on what you need to frame the subjects / how close you are, rather than the fastest f-stop. So for ex if you have a 28/2.8, 35/2, and 85/1.2, the 85mm isn't necessarily better because faster; it also magnifies camera shake and has little DOF so you need to nail focus (but if you nail focus results can be good).

Camera meters don't always do well with night scenes, so using auto mode may not work well. If you can meter an important part of the subject, like people's faces in light, you can set the exposure for that and let the shadows fall where they may. It's ok for a night scene to have large expanses of very-dark, which an averaging meter doesn't know. If you can't isolate the faces you can try getting your palm into a similar light level and meter that. Sometimes when taking night street scenes long ago, I think I would just set the camera on a fixed exposure I could just-about handhold, like 1/30 at f/2, and concentrate on focus rather than exposure.

If you can brace the camera against a wall or street sign it should let you get away with a slower shutter speed.

IMO, grainy shadows often come out better in B&W than color; in B&W they're just grainy, while in color they're sort of mottled / murky.

man you nailed it on the 85mm. I blew focus on more than half of the shots with it because the dof and i believe the magnification was too much! My F1 has the focusing screen with center weighted average metering, but i do have a focus screen that does Selective area (partial metering)... it just doesnt have a split prism, its got the microprism only circle in the middle and ive found i sometimes miss focus with it compared to the split prism. Ill throw it in and try it though. I think i can more accurately meter with it, not as much as a spot meter, but it will at least take a much smaller meter reading at least.

Im thinking about giving TMAX P3200 or Ilford Delta 3200 B&W film a shot if i can get it locally to see how that turns out as well

Welcome to Photrio!

I have used the box speed whenever I photograph. For night photography I have been using the Jiffy Calculator [https://kusner.com/downloads/MVLibrary/JiffyCalculator.pdf] since the first release in 1963.

I did not know that this existed thank you! Printing it out now to use

 

[Sirius Glass]

geez im glad i asked, i was about to push 2 rolls of portra 800 before i posted this thread haha. You are totally right about the 1.2 aperture on both counts. going to try different bracing options this weekend!



man you nailed it on the 85mm. I blew focus on more than half of the shots with it because the dof and i believe the magnification was too much! My F1 has the focusing screen with center weighted average metering, but i do have a focus screen that does Selective area (partial metering)... it just doesnt have a split prism, its got the microprism only circle in the middle and ive found i sometimes miss focus with it compared to the split prism. Ill throw it in and try it though. I think i can more accurately meter with it, not as much as a spot meter, but it will at least take a much smaller meter reading at least.

Im thinking about giving TMAX P3200 or Ilford Delta 3200 B&W film a shot if i can get it locally to see how that turns out as well



I did not know that this existed thank you! Printing it out now to use

Enjoy.

 

[Maris]

There is another way to do hand held photography of dark scenes but it is wasteful.
Years ago I did pictures for musical groups on pushed High Speed Ektachrome, E.I. = 400, grainy greenish shadows, but that was the fastest transparency film. The film budget was essentially
limitless so I could set the camera on 1/2 second or even 1 second and photograph the same scene, same point of view, for all 36 frames. ONE of those frames would be the sharpest and
the other 35 could be thrown away. Next scene, next point of view ... shoot another roll of film. The best day ever was when I got my first motor drive camera.

 

[Sirius Glass]

There is another way to do hand held photography of dark scenes but it is wasteful.
Years ago I did pictures for musical groups on pushed High Speed Ektachrome, E.I. = 400, grainy greenish shadows, but that was the fastest transparency film. The film budget was essentially
limitless so I could set the camera on 1/2 second or even 1 second and photograph the same scene, same point of view, for all 36 frames. ONE of those frames would be the sharpest and
the other 35 could be thrown away. Next scene, next point of view ... shoot another roll of film. The best day ever was when I got my first motor drive camera.

When I took slides for night photography, I used film for artificial light [tungsten]. Think if was type B film. That produced flood lights with white light.

 

[dbbowen2]

I havent quite gotten my home setup ready to DIY black and white film yet, so Ive got to wait a week for my B&W film, but here are a few color photos from the weekend using portra 800. For black and white I went with Ilford 3200. My local lab develops and scans only color same day.

It was a little chaotic and raining very hard so i did not get a chance to use much else than my 85mm. They were shooting pepper balls at us and gassing the street so lens changes were not ideal.

I shot the B&W roll the night before when it was very very calm so i was able to slow down a bit.

Shooting film here every week is starting to get a little expensive so i think next time ill shoot digital only and then kind of bounce back and forth.


I was actually able to use some of the stabilization techniques in this thread for this photo, still not enough light, but i braced my arms on a random car and was able to get this shot

As i was taking this one, they gassed the street, so its out of focus because i was running away haha. The rain mixed with the grain in all of these photos kind of looks nice

Found some shelter for these

Braced on a tree to the left of the frame like many suggested here, and was able to not shoot wide open.

Same for this one as well. I think i braced on a light pole

Unfortunately after these 2 photos, my F1 got too wet and kind of stopped working. The film advance became stuck and the light meter started acting weird, so i put the camera away. I was able to dry it out with desiccant packs, but its never had a CLA so im sending it out this week. Thankfully i have a back up camera to use while its there. Only was able to shoot half of the roll.


A little earlier in the day. No crazy night photography stuff needed.

 

[Tel]

I usually shoot box speed, a bit slower than normal and pretty wide open but not all the way. Often braced against something solid. Nikon F, Nikkor 50mm lens. Ilford HP5 1/60 at f/4.

garage by terry, on Flickr

 

[Sirius Glass]

I havent quite gotten my home setup ready to DIY black and white film yet, so Ive got to wait a week for my B&W film, but here are a few color photos from the weekend using portra 800. For black and white I went with Ilford 3200. My local lab develops and scans same day.

It was a little chaotic and raining very hard so i did not get a chance to use much else than my 85mm. They were shooting pepper balls at us and gassing the street so lens changes were not ideal.

I shot the B&W roll the night before when it was very very calm so i was able to slow down a bit.

Shooting film here every week is starting to get a little expensive so i think next time ill shoot digital only and then kind of bounce back and forth.


I was actually able to use some of the stabilization techniques in this thread for this photo, still not enough light, but i braced my arms on a random car and was able to get this shot

As i was taking this one, they gassed the street, so its out of focus because i was running away haha. The rain mixed with the grain in all of these photos kind of looks nice

Found some shelter for these

Braced on a tree to the left of the frame like many suggested here, and was able to not shoot wide open.

Same for this one as well. I think i braced on a light pole

Unfortunately after these 2 photos, my F1 got too wet and kind of stopped working. The film advance became stuck and the light meter started acting weird, so i put the camera away. I was able to dry it out with desiccant packs, but its never had a CLA so im sending it out this week. Thankfully i have a back up camera to use while its there. Only was able to shoot half of the roll.


A little earlier in the day. No crazy night photography stuff needed.

Great photographs taken under unfavorable conditions. No green frogs?

 

[dbbowen2]

I usually shoot box speed, a bit slower than normal and pretty wide open but not all the way. Often braced against something solid. Nikon F, Nikkor 50mm lens. Ilford HP5 1/60 at f/4.

garage by terry, on Flickr

Geez f4 in the dark is almost unfathomable! haha thats amazing

Great photographs taken under unfavorable conditions. No green frogs?

Thank you! Since i'm mostly doing this for personal experience, instead of selling the photos to the news or something, using film in these unfavorable conditions has really been quite the learning experience for me.

There were a few frogs there, I just was unable to photograph him that night. It was way more crowded than usual down there Saturday night. It was also a bit more chaotic than usual as well

 

[cliveh]

No need to push film development, just look at the work of Brassai. He use to time his exposures by how long it took him to smoke a Gauloises cigarette.