Help with Enlarger!!!!

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sohara70

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I have one question - which type of enlarger (brand and model) should I buy. I have decided to buy used (I think). Are there models I should avoid (problems to look out for)?

I am printing 35mm and medium format (645, 6x6, 6x7) B+W prints. I would like to print large - is 20 X 24 doable? I do not have a fortune to spend - how much should I earmark for the enlarger? I do not plan on doing 4x5 since I do not have a LF camera (and if I do get one I will be divorced so she will own it anyway). As far as I have seen - I need a 50 and an 80mm lens for everything except the 6x7 (what size lens does the 6x7 need).

It does not have to be pretty - but reliable and give me very good results that I could possibly display or put in an show (I may be stretching here) and be fairly hardy (I will not be buying a new one anytime soon.) What are the difference between condenser/cold light heads? Are they both B+W - is one better than another?

New subscriber - decided to join after everyone was so helpful in the past - thanks in advance. I have done some searching and did not find the answers.
 

MurrayMinchin

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Europe? N. America? Graded B&W? Variable contrast B&W? Those are just a few of the basics we need from you first :smile:

As far as cost goes, I've seen good 4x5 enlargers sell on 'a certain auction site' for less than $500.00.

40' by 50' prints are possible from 35mm...just depends what you're looking for!

Murray
 
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sohara70

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Live in NYC area. Have rented darkroom time twice and loved it - have been amateur photographer for years (mostly slide film but some B+W and color prints). I think I would definitely start with VC (used it when I have printed) but would like to try graded contrast - are the results different, i.e. can you tell the difference if a pro printer printed the same print on VC and graded?

What types of hoops am I going to jump through to print 40x50 from 35mm? I do not want to mount it on my roof! :smile:

Thanks for the quick reply!
 

BWGirl

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Well, I'll just jump in here with what I have & at least give you something to think about. I print from 35mm negatives & medium format negatives. I have condensor enlargers (I have two but they are exactly the same). They are both Beseler 23cIIs. You can change the lens in the enlarger, and thereby enlarge either 35mm or 120 depending on which lens you use. I have a 50mm lens for my 35mm negatives and a 75mm lens for my 120 negs. There are a couple nice things about this particular enlarger... first, I like the contrast I get from the condensor head... I only do b&w work with it and it provides what I want. Second... you can tilt the head back on this enlarger and project the negative onto a wall giving you the ability to make a pretty monsterous print... though I'm hard pressed to "get" why I'd ever do it. :wink:

Hope this helps some! :smile:
 

MurrayMinchin

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You'll probably have to wait until tomorrow to get some solid replies to your questions...I was just trying to get a bit more information out of you so those more qualified than me about enlargers could help you out.

Try using the search functions some more...there's a HUGE amount of information already out here just waiting for you, if you look for it.

Murray
 

percepts

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hmmmm,

20x24 is big on an enlarger which only prints upto 6x7 negs. The problems you will have are getting an enlarger with a big enough base board where the enlarger column is far enough from the lens axis to allow 20x24 paper on the baseboard. Adding an easel to this makes the problem more difficult unless you do away with an easel and tape the paper to the the base board.
Also the enlarger column has to be high enough to allow your 80mm lens to be high enough to cover the paper. Therefore, for those big prints a wide angle enlarging lens may be necessary depending on available enlarger column height.
At 20x24 you need everything perfectly aligned and you will need critically sharp negs unless print softness doesn't bother you. It's doable but only if you are meticulous about every step of the process.
 

srs5694

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You've touched on a lot of issues, each of which could generate a lengthy thread in and of itself. Unfortunately, I don't know of any Web resources that provide clear and succinct descriptions of the relevant points, so I'll just provide a few thoughts on each of the issues you've raised....

I have one question - which type of enlarger (brand and model) should I buy. I have decided to buy used (I think). Are there models I should avoid (problems to look out for)?

There are so many different brands and models that it's hard to make sweeping statements. IMHO, more important than the brand you get is its condition, at least in terms of the quality of a used product. Look for something that's built sturdily -- for instance, with a thick metal column rather than a thin hollow metal column.

I can say this: I've owned two enlargers, both bought used: a Durst C35 and a Philips PCS130 with PCS150 control unit. The Durst was a bottom-of-the-line model with cheap construction and certain limitations that I found, well, limiting. The Philips is a much better unit, but it's a bit of an oddball and it's been out of production for two decades. If you had a choice between only these two I'd say you'd be happier with the Philips, not least because it can handle up to 6x7, which you say you use. Even for 35mm only, though, the Philips is a much sturdier and more capable unit, even if it uses rather expensive bulbs.

I am printing 35mm and medium format (645, 6x6, 6x7) B+W prints.

The oft-quoted rule of thumb is to get an enlarger that can do one size larger than your largest current format. That said, if available space is an issue, you might not want to go that route. Some people also use different enlargers for different formats -- a large format enlarger might not be ideally suited for 35mm, for instance.

I would like to print large - is 20 X 24 doable?

Most enlargers can print up to at least 11x14 (inches) on the baseboard. You can usually rotate the head to project on a wall or unmount the column and mount it backwards to project on the floor to get larger prints. I'd expect 20x24 should be possible with most or all enlargers that support either of these features. Since this is important to you, be sure to check on this feature for any enlarger you consider. FWIW, my Durst C35 did backwards-mounted floor projection and my Philips PCS130 does both this and wall projection.

I do not have a fortune to spend - how much should I earmark for the enlarger?

In the used market, a good enlarger capable of doing up to 6x7 can be had for under $100 if you shop carefully. I paid $50 (plus $24 shipping) for my Philips PCS130 with PCS150 control unit a bit over a year ago, for instance. Mine only came with negative carriers and condensers to handle up to 6x6, though. I just recently acquired a 6x7 condenser set for about $30. The price goes up for certain feature-laden models or for large format enlargers. There's also a certain randomness at work -- I've seen posts from people who've gotten excellent enlargers for free, and others from people who spend several hundred for less than I got a year ago.

As far as I have seen - I need a 50 and an 80mm lens for everything except the 6x7 (what size lens does the 6x7 need).

The general rule of thumb is to use a lens that's the same focal length as the "normal" lens for the film format you're enlarging. For 6x7, 90mm is often used. I've got a cheap 75mm lens for 6x6, but 80mm is often recommended for that format. For 35mm, a 50mm lens is the most common choice.

It does not have to be pretty - but reliable and give me very good results that I could possibly display or put in an show (I may be stretching here) and be fairly hardy (I will not be buying a new one anytime soon.)

Any enlarger is capable of producing good results, although you might need to invest some time in aligning it or perhaps repairing problems (electrical faults, light leaks, etc.) if it's in bad enough condition. Cheap (as in cheaply built) enlargers may be susceptible to vibrations, which will blur your photos, but even they can do OK if they're put in stable enough environments. Better enlargers are more resistant to vibrations and will be easier to use. For image quality, pay attention to the lens, but be aware that you can ditch the lens that comes with the enlarger in favor of a better one if you don't like what comes with the enlarger. Typically, 6-element designs from Nikon, Schneider, and Rodenstock are recommended, but some other manufacturers make lenses in the same league.

What are the difference between condenser/cold light heads?

These are two different factors:

  • Light source -- cold light heads use fluorescent tubes as the light source. I'm not very familiar with these, but I believe they're most common on large format enlargers. The smaller enlargers I've used, such as my Philips, generally use tungsten or halogen bulbs.
  • Condenser vs. diffusion design -- Condenser enlargers use optical condensers (large lens-like objects) in the light path to spread the light evenly over the area of the negative. Diffusion enlargers do the same job using a diffusion apparatus -- typically a box with a white interior that bounces the light around, keeping the bulb out of direct view of the negative and lens. There are endless debates on which is better. The conventional view is that condenser enlargers produce sharper prints, but at the cost of greater visibility for scratches and dust. Condenser enlargers also typically produce slightly higher contrast. Most color enlargers (see below) use diffusion designs, whereas both types are common in B&W enlargers. (My Philips is an oddball in that it's a color condenser enlarger.)

Are they both B+W - is one better than another?

Any enlarger can be used for B&W printing. Not all are equally well suited for printing with VC paper or for color printing, though. The issue is filtration: Many older enlargers lack filter drawers, which means you've got to use under-lens filters for VC or color papers. Most more recent enlargers have filter drawers. Some enlargers have VC or color heads, which incorporate magenta, yellow, and (for color heads) cyan filters. (A few models, including my Philips, use red, green, and blue filters for additive color rather than cyan, magenta, and yellow for subtractive color.)

Overall, I'd recommend getting an enlarger with a color head, even if you don't intend to print in color. You can use the magenta and yellow filters to adjust the contrast of VC B&W papers, and you'll have the option of doing color if you take an interest in it in the future. If you're sure you'll only do B&W, you might consider an enlarger with a VC head with magenta and yellow (but not cyan) filters or separate blue and green light sources (some cold-light heads are built this way, or so I understand). At the very least, be sure whatever you get has a filter drawer and price filters before buying (if the enlarger doesn't come with them). If you're certain you want a condenser enlarger, you'll find few with color heads. (Some models support multiple heads, so you might get an enlarger with a B&W condenser head and a color diffusion head. You could still use the color head for B&W enlargements, or even the B&W head for color with appropriate filters.)

Other factors to consider:

  • When buying used, be sure to buy an enlarger with all the little things you need, such as negative carriers and condensers or mixing boxes for the sizes you want to use. If you buy an oddball enlarger, extras like negative carriers or condensers can be hard to find. If you buy a popular model or one that's still in production, you'll be able to find such things, but they may be expensive.
  • If possible, get a complete darkroom "kit" with trays, tongs, an easel, a safelight or two, etc. These extras all add up in cost remarkably fast. On eBay, complete kits often go for little more than the enlarger alone.
  • Check the prices of bulbs. Some enlargers (such as my Philips) use expensive or hard-to-find bulbs.
  • Read descriptions in eBay auction ads, catalogs, etc. You may learn of a feature that appeals to you.
 
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As percepts says, making big enlargments requires excellent stability and alignment, including a glass negative carrier. I'd look for a Durst or De Vere 4x5 enlarger. The 4x5s are extremely well built. I have the De Vere 504, and it's very easy to align, as this can all be done with set screws, as opposed to shims. Durst have a very good reputation, but I don't know about alignment capability. (They can always be shimmed, but this is more of a pain than set screws.) Both of these types are significantly better built than Beseler, Omegas, Nikors... (This doesn't mean the others are bad.) The De Vere comes with a very large baseboard. I don't know about the Durst, but I would expect that it does as well. Before buying, though, you want to do some research, as sometimes needed excessories can cost you more than the enlarger itself. (This depends, of course, on exactly what you need.)
 
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Philips are very nice enlargers. I have two of them. There are two negatives, though. First, they have complicated electronics. If there's a problem with any of it, it could get very expensive to fix. Second, they aren't very alignable. My alignment, for example, changes significantly depending on how much I turn the column look. (I have a laser alignment tool, and so this stuff is very easy to test.)
 
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sohara70

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Wow - great info!

How big is the DeVere 504? I am setting this up in the basement and have a decent amount of space but I am not sure if a floor model will fit.

Also, where do I buy? Is eBay a reliable source for quality merchandise - I am a little worried that all I am getting is drop ship sellers and they really don't know a damn thing about the product.

I am digesting the rest of the info and will respond soon.

Thanks again.
 

percepts

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if you have no intention of doing 4x5 then I would stay away from 4x5 enlargers. They are big and heavy and consume space. Also they usually come with 4x5 mixing boxes and not 35mm mixing boxes unless you are lucky.
If you don't have the correct mixing box for the neg format, exposure times will be very very long at 20x24.

I would suggest a durst m609 or Modular 70. For big prints a condenser will likely retain sharpness better than a diffusion enlarger.

The idea that you should get an enlarger capable of taking bigger negs than you are ever going to use is garbish. Thats like saying that I should a 5x7 or 10x8 enlarger because I use 4x5 film.

Durst neg holders are very good. I don't know about the other brands.
 

srs5694

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Also, where do I buy? Is eBay a reliable source for quality merchandise - I am a little worried that all I am getting is drop ship sellers and they really don't know a damn thing about the product.

All other things being equal, local is better -- you can see the merchandise and spot glaring problems (parts bent out of alignment, frayed wiring, etc.) that might be hidden on an eBay photo. You'll also pay no shipping on local purchases. Enlargers -- particularly bigger units -- often sell with hefty shipping prices on eBay. (Not always, though; if a seller shops around for shipping options or breaks it up across multiple boxes to avoid oversized-package fees, shipping can be reasonable.)

That said, eBay has its advantages, such as a much wider selection than you're likely to find locally, particularly if you don't live near a big city. The sellers on eBay vary greatly, ranging from resellers who, as you say, know nothing about what they're selling to the original purchasers, who might be able to tell you about every bolt and scratch on the thing. If an auction description seems suspicious or vague, you can always pass on it. Rule #1 for eBay: Something like it will come up again! For all but the very rarest items, even if you don't see another one listed right now, another one will appear in a week or a month or whatever. Unless you're dead-set on getting a particularly rare model, you can afford to pass on any specific auction. OTOH, some of my best eBay buys have been for items with suspicious, vague, or contradictory descriptions. People often shy away from such auctions, and if they've got bad descriptions because the seller is bad with language and/or can't focus a camera but is honest, you can get a real bargain.
 

srs5694

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The idea that you should get an enlarger capable of taking bigger negs than you are ever going to use is garbish. Thats like saying that I should a 5x7 or 10x8 enlarger because I use 4x5 film.

The logic I've always seen is that it's possible (perhaps even likely) that you'll eventually want to move up to a larger-format camera, and it's better to be prepared for that when buying an enlarger now than to have to replace your enlarger later. I've never seen anybody claim that there's any inherent advantage in using an enlarger capable of handling a larger format than you're enlarging at any given moment, all other things being equal.

IMHO, there's some validity to this argument, but it was probably more compelling a decade or more ago, when the used market wasn't flooded with enlargers going for a fraction of their original worth. With the cost of a (used) enlarger today being comparable to the cost of a couple boxes of paper, you won't be throwing away a lot of money if you find you need to upgrade later. If you know you need a pretty expensive enlarger, though, it still makes sense to buy something with room for growth, provided this won't raise the cost too much.
 

BruceN

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A lot of good comments here, and it should certainly be possible to find an enlarger within your budget. I have a Zone VI VC enlarger for all my bigger stuff, but for 35mm I find that I use my old Beseler Dichro 67S as often as not. I routinely print up to 16x20 with it from 35mm negs. Something that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact that enlarger size will be only one small worry when it comes to printing big. Space is the big worry - room for all those big trays and stuff. You say you have a decent amount of space in your basement, but building a sink and counters to handle 20x24 printing will be a significant expense. Then comes all the other equipment - those big trays aren't cheap, even on the auction site, and we haven't even started talking about archival print washers, etc. My Calumet 16x20 archival washer cost easily 2 or 3 times what my Dichro 67S enlarger did, even after you include the cost of the new (to me) El-Nikkor lenses I bought for it. Next comes the cost of learning to print big - it's not simply a matter of raising the head, refocusing and throwing in a bigger piece of paper (not if you want to do it well). Only the very best 35mm negs are suitable for going above 11x14 (or often even 8x10) and enlarger alignment becomes critical - you're probably going to want to get a good laser alignment tool. I use the Versalab Parallel, but there are others out there, unfortunately they don't give any of them away. Big paper is expensive, uses a heck of a lot more chemistry and is much more difficult to handle, especially floppy-when-wet FB.
I'm not trying to rain on any parades here, just throwing in some things you may not have thought of. Even on a tight budget it's wise to plan your darkroom around the biggest size you're likely to want to print, but that's impossible without knowing all the added costs and PIA's you're likely to encounter. The very best of luck to you,

Bruce
 

MattKing

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If I was starting right now, I'd buy a Beseler 23CII or 23CIII enlarger. They and their accessories are plentiful on eBay, and the latest version (and its parts and accessories) are still being manufactured and sold at retail. The 23C series will handle up to 6x9 film and there is some interchangeability between carriers and lensboards for the 23C series and Beselers for 4x5 (and 8x10???).

For 20x24 or larger, the head swivels. Alternatively, you can wall mount them, and use a lowered easel.

I've used 23C series enlargers in shared darkrooms, and I like them. In my own darkroom, I use a Beseler 67C and (a recent acquisition) a Beseler 67 colourhead. I am very happy with my enlarger, and believe that it will do everything you need for any film size up to 6x7. The only reason I would consider replacing it is if I got a LF or 6x9 camera.

Matt
 

fschifano

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FWIW, I particularly like the Omega "D" series of enlargers. They are quite sturdy, reasonably easy to align, and once aligned tend to stay that way. Along with the Beseler 45 series of machines, they are probably the easiest to find spare parts and accessories for as well. Mine is an autofocus D4 model with focusing cams for 60, 80, and 135 mm lenses. I've no need for another enlarger and can print up to 20x24 from a 4x5 negative, though I rarely go larger than 11x14 with some cropping.
 
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sohara70

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What about this one?

Saw a Durst Modular 70 on Ebay - they say it is in great cosmetic and working condition. I might be able to get it for just under $200 - any thoughts? Will this do 35 thru 6x7? Am I going to be able to find parts and project on a wall or the floor to make larger prints?
 

percepts

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yes it will print upto 6x7 but no bigger. The head rotates left or right for wall projection. The lens axis to column base is 11 inches so it will just print 20x24 onto the baseboard without an easel.

I have a nagging recollection that there were two versions of this enlarger. One had a taller column than the other. The "start pro" is the one with the taller column.

Which head does it have, as there were three different options available.

The Colour, which used Y+M+C dicro filters, The Vario for B+W only which had one dial for speed matched continous grade adjustment (only speed matched for Ilford MG) and the Condenser which needs a different set of condensers for 35mm or 6x7. The vario and the color should also have the "Lumo" light source with them.
 
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sohara70

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Here is the description:

Up for Auction in the Continental U.S.A. ONLY is a DURST MODULAR 70 Black & White Enlarger. The Enlarger is in Excellent cosmetic and working condition. Included with the Enlarger are either a Rodenstock Rogonar-S or Rodagon 1:2.8 50mm Lens, Sinoreg 6 X 7cm Negative Carrier with Sixma 35mm Inserts, a below the Lens Filter Holder. This Enlarger is built with Durst's well-known percision.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120069094043&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1

Is this a good one?
 

percepts

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Looks very much like the condenser head which takes a 150 W opal bulb.

There should be a filter drawer rather than dichro filters. The add says it only has the 35mm neg inserts so it most likely only has the condensers for 35mm. You would need to accquire the additional condensers and neg inserts for 6x7 format. Its a good quality enlarger. I own one with a colour head but its been in storage since I bought an L1200 for 4x5. I'd like to get it back in use but don't have space for two enlargers. One day...
 

percepts

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The lenses offered:

Rogonar-s 50mm f/2.8 24 x 36mm 2-10X (4X) 47.0mm 50.0mm M 39 x 1/26"

Rodagon 50mm f/2.8 24 x 36mm 2-15X (10X) 43.5mm 50.0mm M 39 x 1/26"

from the above data you will see that the rodagon is optimised for 10x enlargement but only works upto 15X whilst retaining reasonable quality.

a 35mm neg making a 20x24 will be at the absolute limit for that lens.
The rogonar is only good for small prints (5x7 inches approx).
 

percepts

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you wouldn't need another head, its only the condensers for 6x7 which fit in the head, replacing the 35mm condensers. The colour head is more versatile but as I said previously, for big prints from small negs, a condenser will help with sharpness.

I don't know about beseler enalrgers. Someone else will have to give advice on those.
 
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