Help: What model Kodak Retina to buy?? (rangefinder model)

I have the Retina Reflex IV. A bot of a clutzy camera for sure, but I got it for the Schneider-Kreuznach lenses. I now have 5 lenses now (and all were pretty cheap), two do not have rangefinder cams (so no IIIS). I can adapt them to some of my M42 cameras also, but as long as the Retina Reflex IV works will mostly use it on the original Kodak. I started with two lenses, then added the camera (plus got it fixed), then bought 3 more lenses.

Just showing off my Retina IIa with the wonderful Rodenstock Heligon f2.0
Alass my fingers are too fat to really enjoy holding this camera as intended.

Åbent kamera by Michael G, on Flickr

michaelfoto said:

Just showing off my Retina IIa with the wonderful Rodenstock Heligon f2.0
Alass my fingers are too fat to really enjoy holding this camera as intended.

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Isn’t this a wonderful camera, Michael?! I just acquired the same version (Retina-Heligon) last week and after a good cleaning, it’s almost as good as new! The IIa is my favorite of them all.

I found my IIa at a local estate sale, took a chance on this unknown to me, and the fact that it sat all morning without takers!
Upon inspection, it just looked new! Only negative parts were that leatherette peels of a bit on lens door (need to get right cement) and a small part of the leather case stitching is coming loose.

I did read about the film advance potential issue, but I do not see, or feel a problem.
Is there a preventative measure to apply?

Per serial number, it was probably bought in Germany by a U.S. serviceman, recently departed.
I am a bit emotional with objects' history at times, so I am with this camera.

jay moussy said:

I found my IIa at a local estate sale, took a chance on this unknown to me, and the fact that it sat all morning without takers!
Upon inspection, it just looked new! Only negative parts were that leatherette peels of a bit on lens door (need to get right cement) and a small part of the leather case stitching is coming loose.

I did read about the film advance potential issue, but I do not see, or feel a problem.
Is there a preventative measure to apply?

Per serial number, it was probably bought in Germany by a U.S. serviceman, recently departed.
I am a bit emotional with objects' history at times, so I am with this camera.

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Congratulations on finding this fine camera, Jay! You're going to love it, I'm sure.

The leather patches (yes, its real leather, not faux leather!) can be glued back down with a single coat of contact cement. Don't use Epoxy or anything TOO permanent, in case it ever has to be removed in the future.

Regarding preventative measures to avoid problems with the film advance/winding mechanism - question about the mounting of the accessory shoe: are the three screws mounted from the top/exterior of the camera housing, or from inside the top cover? See the photo, which shows the screws mounted from inside the top cover.


If the accessory shoe is mounted in this configuration, be sure all three screw tips are visible as shown in the photo I attached. If there is an empty hole in one or more of the accessory shoe screw holes, then the screw has backed out and is floating inside the top cover somewhere. If that is the case, then at the very least the camera needs the top cover take off, find the misbehaving screw and put it back where it belongs. Now, taking the top cover off is fairly straightforward, but it requires the removal of the winding lever, and that has to be done in a very particular way. But I am getting ahead of myself - first determine if the screw are all present, and if not, then ask me for further assistance. If the crews are mounted from the exterior of the camera, then you don't need to worry about the "loose screws" issue.

Is there anything else you can do to avoid potential problems with the cocking rack and winding mechanism? Well, if the camera is clean and been well cared for (and hopefully serviced at least once in its 65+ years of life) then you may be able to use it without undue concern. However, if there is a lot of dried grease in the mechanism, and/or dust and grit from too many trips to the beach in 1959, then it would be smart to have it properly stripped down and cleaned. Then, you will have no worries.

By the way, do you know if the frame counter works? Does it count up with every winding and firing of the shutter? There is a tiny "spring" inside the film advance lever assembly that has to flex with every counting of a frame, and it inevitably weakens with use and the tip breaks off. What that means is that the camera no longer counts frames as you go through the roll, but otherwise it doesn't adversely affect the functionality of the camera. Replacement springs are available from Micro Tools USA but they are extremely expensive (undoubtedly more than you paid for the camera!), so most times, people opt to live without a functioning frame counter.

Paul

Thanks Paul,

I seem to be alright with all your points above: screws showing, working frame count, and general cleanliness.
Isn't there something about a potential problem with frame advance/shutter interlock.. or am I confusing with another camera?

I only took a test roll, came out fine, except for my relying on an ancient meter that was off!
Need to take it out more!

jay moussy said:

Thanks Paul,

I seem to be alright with all your points above: screws showing, working frame count, and general cleanliness.
Isn't there something about a potential problem with frame advance/shutter interlock.. or am I confusing with another camera?!

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Jay,
The potential problem is the one I somewhat vaguely alluded to: if sand or loose screws get into the gearing that is underneath the advance lever (which drives the cocking rack, which drives a shaft that connects to the second rack that cocks the shutter) then you can damage the cocking rack in the top housing. However, that problem is far less common than the popular mythology would suggest. The most typical problem arises if the user reaches the end of the film, and attempts to force the lever to cock the shutter, which will only result in damage to the teeth of the cocking rack and/or twisting the shaft that runs through the film takeup spool. If the user understands the camera and how it works, then there is very little risk of "user-induced" damage.

If the camera is clean and appears to function well, then the odds are you can use it freely for years without much concern. But should you find one day that the shutter sticks open at 1/2 or 1 second, you know its time to have it properly serviced. A sticking shutter is the canary in the coalmine: there will be more in the camera that needs attention. Usually its just a matter of cleaning off old grease and putting it back together correctly, but it does require a full tear-down of the components and a thorough degreasing of parts.

This, by the way, is what a broken frame counter spring looks like. At the upper right end of the component is supposed to be another piece of metal, protruding at an angle. In this instance, it is broken off, from metal fatigue.

I really wish that more people would read and heed this wisdom. Personally, I don’t wait until the canary is dead...

BrianShaw said:

New Zealand.

the difference between buying old cameras over and over, and having a decent specimen fully restored is that the latter approach results in a fully reliable, just-like-new camera. If that’s what is desired... it’s worth the money. But as I can attest... it’s not an inexpensive approach.

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I agree with Brian 100%. It's a macho thing to say, "I'll just buy cheap and throw it out rather than pay for a repair." This is appropriate for a camera that was low cost mass consumer, like an Instamatic. But for one of the precision mechanical wonders of the mid-20th century:
1. Throw it out means you reduce the inventory for future users.
2. You are always wondering when your particular unit will crap out.
3. You spend time buying cameras rather than taking photographs.
4. Getting a repair supports the repair industry. One day, you may need one of these specialists for a camera that you decided not to discard.
5. Buy and throw out; it's so 20th century American consumer society.

Kodak always had a good, better, best camera to offer Dads for Father’s Day.

Would love to see what a Kodak Instamatic 60 could do with Ektar 100 (the current stuff) or T-Max 100 or even the new Ektachrome.

Those had a good lens, adequate rangefinder focusing, two-value film speed detection (based on notches in the cassette). But no way to override exposure.

They worked very okay, and still do if you have a cassette you can reload. They also don't depend on the numbered backing or the little "finger" -- so you can try them with Ektar if you want. It's about a quarter of a 35mm frame.

As an eyeglass wearer I would choose an Ib/B or a IIc or IIIc. The Big C cameras have larger viewfinders, but they are cluttered with the frames for the three lenses. I have the wide and tele lenses, but I use the normal lens 99% of the time. But if you want to use the accessory lenses often, a Big C Retina would be a good buy. Even if it works fine, it's a good idea to have it CLA'd. Things like the cocking rack could be a little bit out of adjustment, which could mean unnecessary wear and you'd end up with a broken camera after a while.

The earlier, pre-b/B/c/C Retinas are excellent cameras as well, but they have small viewfinders.If you don't wear glasses, or don't mind holding the camera against the glasses (you could scratch them), they are fine picture takers.

JPD said:

As an eyeglass wearer I would choose an Ib/B or a IIc or IIIc. The Big C cameras have larger viewfinders, but they are cluttered with the frames for the three lenses. I have the wide and tele lenses, but I use the normal lens 99% of the time. But if you want to use the accessory lenses often, a Big C Retina would be a good buy. Even if it works fine, it's a good idea to have it CLA'd. Things like the cocking rack could be a little bit out of adjustment, which could mean unnecessary wear and you'd end up with a broken camera after a while.

The earlier, pre-b/B/c/C Retinas are excellent cameras as well, but they have small viewfinders.If you don't wear glasses, or don't mind holding the camera against the glasses (you could scratch them), they are fine picture takers.

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All valid points, yes. Thanks.
I still prefer my IIIC for its larger viewfinder, and I don't have much trouble interpreting the viewfinder framing lines, since I almost always use only the standard 50m lens. My brain has learned to ignore all but the 50mm frame lines.

Donald Qualls said:

It's about a quarter of a 35mm frame.

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Or almost exactly the same as a micro 4/3 sensor

Or almost 8 megapixel with a 4800 ppi scanner. For myself, I prefer my Kiev 30 over those oversize 110 cameras. Same frame size, more compact cassette intended for reuse. Scale focus, down to half a meter.

Greetings,

I enjoy each of my Retina models for their unique designs, so it is difficult to recommend one of them over another. I do agree with others here to research the documented problems to which various models are prone to develop ahead of buying.

Chris Sherlock’s Retina Rescue website has a very good overview of common ailments. He also has a series of Retina Repair videos on You Tube that can give you tremendous insight about the inner working of many of the models. I’m not a DIYer in any way, but I’ve learned a great deal about my cameras from watching these videos. I think they would also be of great help as a decision-making buying tool.

Whichever model you end up buying, I bet you’ll love using it.

Russ

russljames said:

Chris Sherlock’s Retina Rescue website has a very good overview of common ailments. He also has a series of Retina Repair videos on You Tube that can give you tremendous insight about the inner working of many of the models.

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Yes. I highly recommend Chris Sherlock's videos on Youtube. He goes through every part of taking the cameras apart and putting everything together, and he is very good at explaining how and why. I don't have any Retina projects going on, but I have many Retinas, both pre- and post-war. I watch all of his videos.

JPD said:

Yes. I highly recommend Chris Sherlock's videos on Youtube. He goes through every part of taking the cameras apart and putting everything together, and he is very good at explaining how and why. I don't have any Retina projects going on, but I have many Retinas, both pre- and post-war. I watch all of his videos.

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I started learning how to disassemble and service various Retina cameras from watching Sherlock's videos. In the past 2.5 years I have probably serviced 25 Retinas! The IIa is one of my favorites to work on: challenging to learn, but less complex than the models that came afterwards.

paulbarden said:

I started learning how to disassemble and service various Retina cameras from watching Sherlock's videos. In the past 2.5 years I have probably serviced 25 Retinas! The IIa is one of my favorites to work on: challenging to learn, but less complex than the models that came afterwards.

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That is nice work! It's good that there are plenty of Retinas out there, quality cameras that don't cost too much. Many are in good working condition, some need a little help, and then some for spare parts. And there are aftermarket cocking racks for the b/B/c/C cameras from Micro-Tools. And for some models there's custom leather/ette available.

I don't have a Retina to service at the moment, but when I do I will probably let Chris do a complete CLA. But I have a Rolleicord II that needs a new mirror and have the viewing lens focus adjusted. That I can do myself.

https://www.micro-tools.com/collections/camera-repair-tools/camera-parts

This link takes you to a cocking rack for the lllc. I sure don't know if they fit other models.

John Koehrer said:

https://www.micro-tools.com/collections/camera-repair-tools/camera-parts

This link takes you to a cocking rack for the lllc. I sure don't know if they fit other models.

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The cocking rack they make is for the IIIc and IIc only, it is specific to those two cameras and does not fit anything prior to the IIIc.

paulbarden said:

The cocking rack they make is for the IIIc and IIc only, it is specific to those two cameras and does not fit anything prior to the IIIc.

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It should fit the Ib and IB as well.

I have two 11a retinas, and they really embody to me the ideal of 35mm. The lenses are great, and the whole thing easily fits in a pocket. very cool little cameras

I honestly think the Retina IIc and IIC are the best cameras to own. I rebuild the IIc and IIIc cameras to like new function. I love them. The IIc is perfect to me. No light meter, but every phone these days has a light meter app you can download for free. The IIc has a 50mm f/2.8 and the IIIc has a 50mm f/2.0. The IIIc is wonderful as it has a light meter that meters in EV (exposure value). The EV setting on the lens operates like the Hasselblad. Set the EV slider and then you can rotate the shutter/aperture to whatever you want and the EV value stays the same.

Here is a photo of the last camera I did last week.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kb2qqm/50014453656/in/dateposted-public/

Greg.