Help Request: Rolleiflex SLX 2 operation

[JWMster]

So I've acquired an SLX and separately... a standard 80mm 2.8 lens. Charged the battery, loaded the film, advanced the film... and I'm kind of stuck. Following the manual... which isn't completely right for the SLX 2, but it is close I'm wondering whether my problem in firing the shutter is due to faulty seating of the lens or the battery or what. I've managed to advance the film 3 times, but frankly can't say I know why or how. Most of the time, all I get is the red light in the center which lights suggesting that my fully charged battery is not. The fellow I bought off the 'bay from suggests it's a faulty lens. Dunno. Lens looks beautiful to me. If I turn the camera from "O" to "S", press the exposure button just for fun - I'm using a manually set aperture of 5.6 and shutter speed of 125 in morning light which ought to be no problem... I'm just getting mostly nothing. But then twice, randomly... or so it seems.... it took a picture. Imagine that. I like everything about this... except for the not working part. Since both the camera and lens look to be in good shape... I'm wondering whether there's a debugging process here that someone can help me figure out. I'm puzzled. I'm not usually puzzled and can operate cameras from A to Z. Some take more work to figure than others, but I always get a manual and it's usually something simple. I've run "complex stuff" like Pentax K-5's, Fuji XT-10's and X-PRO2, even the gawd help us menu disaster of a Sony A7Rii's, and then the lovely Leica M4-2 and M6, Contax S2 and now even the Bronica's... but this is the first time I feel I'm just missing something completely.
Help wanted!!!

If it's really true that something can go wrong in a beautiful lens and bolix up the whole thing, I'm hesitant to find another lens to confirm this idea... or another camera body for that matter. Good money after bad isn't my idea of a good time.

 

[JWMster]

Update: Have checked with my lens source who assures me it was tested for operation and is in good shape and stands behind it 100%. Suggests I remove the lens to test the shutter. Will do this tonight. Somehow...this will get debugged... or at least I will get debugged. IMHO, it's still user befuddlement.

 

[lantau]

I'm travelling and only have my 1St generation SLX work me. It fires without lens attached. I just tested. Sounds like a problem with the power supply to the camera. Bad contact between battery and camera, perhaps? Cannot say I ever had that. Are you sure the battery is full? It should have a bit over 11V, I think.

There are two shutter buttons, a mechanical cable release and the electric one. Are they all the same?

 

[ic-racer]

The cells in the battery go bad if it sits for a while. Typical Nicad cells. I'll bet a new battery brings your camera back to life. I used an SLX from 1984 until 2014 and now use a 6008i with the same batteries. This was a common problem. https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-power-of-volts-and-milliamps.105128/

 

[JWMster]

T'ain't the battery. Something else. Not sure what. The camera shoots just fine without a lens. Add the lens and it seems to struggle. There's a glimmer of hope, but I'm not sure what to do next. Found that the exposure meter button tends to detach from the camera. Sweet? Not. At some point the shaft underneath the button appears to have sheared off. My impression is that it may have been glued back in place. This could be another problem. Not sure what the answer is, but everyone (lens guy and the camera guy both swear they tested the equipment before posting it for sale) tells me it's not their problem. My bet is that it's the camera. Lens aperture seems to open fine. I think something is wrong in the wiring somewhere.

I like the form factor much better than the Bronica. I don't like the plastic buttons on these things. Metal would be better. And I'm annoyed at the plastic exposure button.

 

[JWMster]

So this morning after leaving a charged battery in overnight, I've replaced it with a battery that's charged overnight for a fresh run. Seems like there's a possibility there might be an internal circuit (a capacitor?) or something that was fully discharged and needed juice overnight? Sounds odd, but my Sony A7II (not R!) had a similar (newer tech) CMOS circuit discharge and had to go back to the factory for refresh. Anyway, I'm going to put the film back in the camera and see what happens if I take a few shots. Seems to have morphed from mostly NOT working into a state of mostly working. This at least is progress. We may ultimately get somewhere. The film counter will be out of synch, but that's okay... I guess. Maybe I'll try rewinding? Not sure.

SOoooo did that and ran a roll through. Sometimes I'm getting "clicks" without a film advance or mirror movement. Sometimes that repeats and then suddenly we get the whole stroke of shutter, mirror and film advance. I kept firing. I think it's a power problem rather than a lens issue. Pretty convinced.

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

This is quite hard to diagnose at the distance. My best guess would be that the body or the battery is broken, or both. The lenses are quite tough, most trouble were the batteries going bad and the electronics of the camera. As you have a loose exposure meter button, it might be that the body has received a blow, somewhere, somehow ... or that somebody tried to fix a problem inadequately.

About capacitors and CMOS chips or similar: My SLX stood on the shelf for 1 ½ years before I took it out two weeks ago, no battery, no firing, nothing. It worked on the first attempt with a charged battery, no problem at all. And I only have the first SLX which is supposed to break easily. If the seller says he tested before sending it to you, something like this definitely cannot be the problem. Besides, if the camera is turned off, how would it charge a capacitor or something similar.

Do have an option to return the body?

 

[JWMster]

Well... this may be a mistake, but it was sold no returns on the 'bay. This means less in real life, but I'm in the process of debugging the problem to prove it's the camera. I think we'll work something out. But from where I sit, I agree with you that the electronics in these lenses aren't like a Fuji APC, so not much is going to go wrong there. Likely the camera has more issues. So I did throw good money after bad, and will receive a 2nd SLX body and 2nd SLX lens in a few days. Yes, I tend to have 2 bodies for these old cameras, so it's not entirely a problem having a 2nd, but I'd like a 2nd that works. And I do think we'll find that happens. I'd surmise that you're right in suspecting a drop or repair issue. If the test was one shot without the lens, and then the 1st shot with a lens on, then it would check out fine. If he did more than that, then I can't believe he wouldn't have seen what I have. Stay tuned and thanks for chiming in.

That said, I really like the form factor. Much easier to lug around than my Bronica SQ-A. So it would be very sweet to have a running SLX on hand.

 

[ic-racer]

In 1987 the rectangle plastic meter button on my SLX also broke. At the time MARFLEX still existed and serviced the camera back to new. I believe they also had some 'upgraded' circuit boards laying around so they installed that too (of course for an additional price).

It is hard to know what is going on, but other problems I encountered were a bad fuse (mechanical failure, loose ends, etc) or poor connection with the fuse holder or poor contact with the battery terminals and the gold-tipped connectors in the camera body. I had at least one battery in the past that required some jiggling to make good contact. Subsequently I tightened the contacts in the battery with improvement.

In terms of battery life, the cells in placed in the 2013 thread I previously linked now have about cycle at about 800mAh. So I'm looking to rebuild some new batteries soon.

 

[John Koehrer]

It really doesn't matter what the seller's policies are. Ebay's policy is if it's not as described they're required to give you a refund.
Including shipping. Providing you don't screw with it.
You may like it, you may want it but I doubt you would have bought it knowing it was messed up. Oh well, your $$$.

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

So I did throw good money after bad, and will receive a 2nd SLX body and 2nd SLX lens in a few days.

Welcome to GAS!

But you are right, the SLX is a beautiful camera. So I hope you will have a working set soon be able to identify the culprit of your current problem.
The big advantage of the SLX in Germany is (if you buy from private sellers) the price, I only paid 200 € for the set (body+lens+battery+charger+strap+hardcover+UV filter) a few years ago. No other "real" MF camera comes so cheaply, especially at this optical quality.

 

[JWMster]

Yeah... this year must have been the year the Chinese looked at me and said, "This is the year of the GAS". I'm guilty of running through a series of cameras to get what works. This camera looks to be one of the few busts. Be nice to get it up and running...
What I like is the way it sits in your hand. and it can actually hang around your neck. I suppose it's not too much bigger or different in size from a TLR which might be the other option. There's also the Mamiya 6.... but there's a price issue with those, and I'm a Zeiss guy. I've pretty much decided I really like MF, but want a camera with the option of AE (even if limited), and a tad smaller or better shaped than the Bronica SQ, Mamiya RB, and perhaps even the Hasselblad 500C series of cameras. We're not talking much smaller, but it might be enough. Seems promising. Fairly, sometimes promising won't work out. But I'm an optimist. And if I can get it to do so, the Bronica stuff will go... at least that's the plan.

Seller has offered to replace the camera if I can't get it working. Test with the alternate lens will confirm one way or the other, and remove the "he said, she said" from the discussion... which I've tried to refrain from and leave simply as a matter of fact. Truth is that a seller's tests may not be the same or as comprehensive as the user on the other end who really wants to put the camera through its paces. A seller's "it works" may not necessarily mean more than it turns on and fires, and fairly, some collectors won't care if it works or not so long as it looks good on the shelf. I'm a user not a collector.

 

[JWMster]

Okay. Got a 2nd camera that is in beautiful shape. Also received a 2nd lens... which is also in beautiful condition. The fact that I can't get things to work any better together suggests there must be something that I just don't "get" about these cameras.

1) Both cameras work great without a lens. They respond as expected to the SLX remote control - moving the mirror, and then firing the shutter as instructed. I can even see the exposure lights "work" without the lens.
2) Neither "works" in firing the shutter of a lens once a lens is attached. I have two heavy but beautiful Rollei lenses: an 80mm F/2,8 and a 50mm F/4. I can get some shutter fires with the 80mm, but the 50mm is more reluctant and I've managed to get it to fire only once. With the lenses on, the center top red light comes on with virtually every press of the shutter. This is supposed to mean that the battery is almost completely exhausted. Gee... these lenses take a lot of juice!!! LOL.
3) Often pressing the shutter release simply causes the aperture to close down and eventually shut completely.
4) Re-opening the aperture seems to be a matter of rotating the aperture ring to "A", pressing the red button on the lens, and pressing the exposure meter button once or twice.
5) If I want the shutter to fire, my most likely success seems to come whenever I move the aperture ring to "A", press the red button, and then press the exposure meter button once or twice. THEN I cannot almost be sure that if I rotate the aperture ring to where I want it, the shutter will fire. Maybe not the first time, but often it will either fir the 2nd time or not at all.
6) I'm not sure I understand why the camera prefers AUTO to MANUAL, but it seems to do so. I am only trying to get the camera to shoot a single, manual shot at this point. Nothing fancy. Fact is, I'd be happy if I could reliably get it to function on MANUAL mode. I thought I'd switch to this as a bit more compact version of a Bronica with the option of using AUTO. So far... nada. You wouldn't think this is rocket science, but even reading the manual (I have a copy from BUTKUS), it seems to be an after thought to shoot MANUAL. My conclusion is that I am doing something very wrong.

And yet I thought I was fairly apt at this point with most gear, but this thing has me buffaloed. Why is this so hard? What am I missing in how it assumes I'll try to operate the camera? I've seen a twinkle of the exposure meter lights only once, and only on the pristine 2nd camera... and this only with a lens off. What gives? Most of the time, I'm seeing only the center ("Battery Charge insufficient") light 85%-95% of the time. This is troubling, but the battery is fully charged. Supposedly.

Both my batteries are after market rebuilds. Seems to me that despite my source's insistence that they will work... and he sells quite a few from what I can tell on this basis, and I assume that there's no reason they shouldn't work. And yet I can't explain why adding a lens seems to cause 2 cameras to roll over and refuse to operate. The Bronicas have some lock-up issues to deal with initially, but after figuring those out, they never resurfaced. This seems to be much the same thing, yet there are fewer users, so fewer resources. I'm gong to keep plugging, but so far I'm coming up with zero zilch nada.

Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!

 

[ic-racer]

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/help-request-rolleiflex-slx-2-operation.155663/#post-2017501

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

Most of the time, I'm seeing only the center ("Battery Charge insufficient") light 85%-95% of the time. This is troubling, but the battery is fully charged.

I think your cameras are trying to tell you something. Did you get the batteries from the same source?

With one camera not working: could be anything. With two cameras not working: buy a new battery from a different source!
And make sure you charge them according to the cell type installed, i.e. the old Rolleifelx charger might not be up to the task.

 

[JWMster]

IC-Racer / RauschenOderKorn: Thanks for your notes. I think this is in fact the problem... and it's less about voltage and more about amps. There has to be a capacitor of some sort in the camera that generates enough power to throw the shutter and advance the film. The only consistent thread here is either there's something wrong in the lens contacts or there is a power issue. My bet is that latter as well. I'm going to contact Eric at DHW Rollei and see what he has for this. Unlike you guys, my cameras didn't come with batteries, so I don't have a battery case to rebuild. That would be acquisition # 1. Rebuild would be # 2 and a charger a la IC-Racer's approach might be # 3.

 

[Tony-S]

The only consistent thread here is either there's something wrong in the lens contacts or there is a power issue. My bet is that latter as well.

I don't know if it's helpful, but when my SLX battery pack died I had Batteries Plus rebuild it with NiMH cells. Of course, the Rollei charger wouldn't charge them so I had to also buy a $25 Tenergy smart charger. It's worked great since then (~2011).

 

[JWMster]

Tony-S: Thanks. Great stuff: I will in fact be ugrading my investment in a charger.

Okay folks here it is: This morning I decided that the guy I bought the batter from probably did his best and was confident his workmanship produced a decent battery. So I assumed that in fact it wasn't necessarily the battery, but the lack of juice IN the battery. Sooooooo...... I pulled out the charger I used for my VHF marine handheld radio, plugged it in to the battery, and for the first time I'm not getting the Battery DOA light. Yahoo! Camera is firing all over the place. Manual shooting is a piece of cake, and it's looking like we have 2 usable cameras, 2 usable lenses and yes, even 2 usable batteries. IC-RACER seems to have the most comprehensive battery charger on the planet with a cost somewhere close to a lens... and I bet the thing could charge every and any type of battery, and that might be the ticket. Not sure it's the best travel charger on the planet... but you gotta start somewhere. So that's next up. But at long last, it's beginning to look like I can make the Rollei SLX work. I'll detail something on these batteries later, but FWIW, I'm also trying to track down one of the SLX/6000 series battery cases to have it repacked as a "known" quantity. But thanks to your help.... one and all.... it looks like I'm in business. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

So the things that remain on my punch list for using this:

1) Filters: I'm waiting on a IV filter adapter to a 67mm screw-in... which is my norm and will allow use of existing filters - including my Lee Big/Small Stopper and Square Holder. Native IV mount filters seem very expensive.
2) Chargers: I've got to pick out a charger and given the way things change, one that can charge different types of batteries with different connectors. Your recommendation for home and travel (if different)?
3) Lens Hood: Don't have any lens hoods... but will likely use ones that add on top of the screw-in filter.... so that I can use an orange/yellow/green etc (B&W) or UV with it. Suggestions?
4) Strap: I'm using my Peak Design seatbelt width neck strap with the twisty connections to the camera's tabs. I've looked at Rollei straps, but think the Peak Design is probably more comfortable.
5) Backs / Inserts: I'm resisting the 4.5 X 6 back.... but I'd picked up a spare film insert, and with 2 cameras I guess I now have 3. That's generally the limit of what I shoot in 120 film anyway.

Last problem: I've still got a detached exposure button issue, and wonder what folks think of just using a little soft glue... like a rubber cement... to hold it and the underlying spring in place?

 

[ic-racer]

I didn't make a thread "The power of volts and milliamps" because I was sad. I really get rejuvenated and excited in medium format photography every time I rebuild battery packs. In fact, after the 2013 rebuild I was so excited I bought a 6008i. In all the years of experience with that dreaded Rolleiflex battery pack (since 1984 for me) It seems like 2/3 of the time I have all those same experiences you have in your post. This is interspersed through time with one to two year periods of fun with fresh batteries!

For example, even being experienced in these batteries, I still got 'bitten.' In 2011, it seemed my 33' extension release stopped working. It cleaned the connector with DeOxit and even took the hand piece apart and cleaned all the inner contacts. It still did not work. Like you, I was confident my battery was still good, because it still fired the camera. WRONG! The 33' cable release needs a fresh strong battery. After my 2013 battery rebuild, like magic, the 33' extension release worked again!! I'm glad I gave it a second chance, otherwise that rare cable would still be in the 'box of broken things.'

Also, to point out that batteries need to be checked under load in every day life. Just yesterday my wife's garage door opener stopped working. I'm teaching my son these things and showed him how to measure the 3V battery in the device. It measured 3V and he was stumped. Then I asked him to keep the probes on the battery and press the button on the device. The voltage plummeted to 0.5v! Now he knows dead batteries can read full nominal voltage when not under load.

 

[JWMster]

IC-Racer: What other cameras do you shoot? What role does your SLX play in MF and photography as a whole for you? I'm curious.... 'cause I'm playing a bit of follow the leader here. Thanks! And thanks for the tales, too. Very on the mark.

 

[ic-racer]

IC-Racer: What other cameras do you shoot? What role does your SLX play in MF and photography as a whole for you? I'm curious.... 'cause I'm playing a bit of follow the leader here. Thanks! And thanks for the tales, too. Very on the mark.

I'm a 'format fanatic' and shoot just about every format from Minox to 8x10in except 6x7cm. I always liked the Rolleiflex cameras because the square format fits my style very well. Back in the 1980s when I was in graduate school, I used only a Yashica 124G . Square format was my thing. These days, I must have 100 cameras including the boxes of plastic cameras people give me.

 

[JWMster]

Good for you. Sounds like fun. Me... I'm still discovering how I like to shoot, and am tending to enjoy these new-to-me "antique" cameras and the challenge of getting them up and running, and then making images with them. Pretty doggone decent shooters! I'm more of a Zeiss fanatic I guess than anything else. So for me, getting back to Zeiss is a small, but "nice to have" the thing that suits a preference. Yet I have to ponder on getting these Rollei cameras up and running is whether I dump the Bronica SQ set... some, most or all. Definitely putting more of it aside... it's just a question of how much. WIll try the Rollei pistol grip tonight and see if it makes the SLX as handy as the Bronica Sportsgrip does for an SQ-A. What triggered all of this was the prospect of a CLA for the Bronica and consideration of a 40mm lens. Two trips back out shooting pushed for a different camera. SLX seems to have some more capabilities more easily than the Bronica. Lacks the interchangeable back... but I rarely change mid roll with 120 anyway.

If wishes were horses, I'd love a Mamiya RF 6... and maybe one day I'll go there. That might be reason enough to dump the Bronica... with that as an intent. That said, my camera collection remains small and I'd like (and need) to keep it that way. I love the 6X6 format, but also love the Leica RF's (Film M's) as an alternative.... which I'm afraid if I gave in to the siren call of the Mamiya 6 would tend to sit unused. I'm shooting 120 more and more, and 35mm less and less. Digital? I remember digital and still have my gear, but I'm thinning it.... not 'cause I don't like it, but because shooting film, developing it, scanning it.... makes an engaging way to use my time and stimulates the noggin'.

Thanks for your help by the way. Do you have a particular general purpose charger you'd recommend somewhere between the Venom and the iCharger? I need one with one of those duo jacks they use on VHF radios and the like. So flexibility in output cables is important. Do you know a knowledgeable source? To make that more clear, the power unit I used on the after-market batteries for my SLX is basically the plug adapter used for a VHF charger. That's the connector. But since this simply supplies 12V to a charging holder, it doesn't regulate diddly. Not a good thing for a high tech battery that might want to decide it's time to blow up.

 

[JWMster]

FWIW: Ordered a Tenergy Balance Charger TB6B with connectors, power supply and a Tenergy Watt Meter/Power Analyzer. We'll see how this works. Can charge both NIMH and LiPO... so that covers the bases. Under $100 all-in. So I'm hoping I'm "DONE" for now.

 

[GarageBoy]

The Rolleiflex is to the Hasselblad what the Nikon F4 is to the Nikon F2. Those conveniences makes working with a working 6000 series worth it

 

[JWMster]

With the development and scanning of my first Rollei SLX 2 shots I have to say this "upgrade" from the Bronica SQ has me sold and my Bronica SQ gear is hittin' the road. The SLX may not be a 6000 series, but the lenses and the film plane seem to have "solved" some of the bugaboos I couldn't seem to get to go away with the Bronica. And yes, even in good old B&W the "color" (contrast) of the Zeiss lenses gives me a VBG! So yes.... I will keep at this thing, get the battery thing worked out, and maybe one day grab a 6000 series body (no idea which one btw.... since that's a confusing mess of features). But for now, I'm going to stick with just learning this thing. Loading the inserts is actually pretty doggone quick enough I'm not sure I'll miss the exchangeable backs (for now). "Nice to have" to be able to go from B&W to color, I found myself often forgetting to switch out the filters, too. Here the Rollei lens bayonet mount may work very nicely... once the purchased bayonet-mount-to-67mm filter adapter gets delivered. Somehow, for a "system camera" this Rollei seems less fidgety than the Bronica. I'm not sure why or how, but it just seems a bit more compact. Heavy.... but compact. Weird how this seems to work to its advantage, but it does.