Help me choose a 645

[LonerMatt]

Hey guys,

Looking for some suggestions about a 645 to buy.

Here are the features I need:
Vertical shooter
55-75mm lens
Relatively light
Light meter
Manual Focus

Features I'd like:
Focusing down to .5m


I've look at the Bronica ERTS, the Bronica RF645, the Fuji GS645, the Mamiya S1000 but I'm not sure if:
a) There are others
b) How they feel in the hand, how well they focus and work

I'm coming from SLR land (Olympus OM stuff) so I'm a bit out of my depth!

 

[rmann]

If you can find one - the Bronica RF645 is made to be used vertically - really nice camera, fit my hands like a glove.

 

[LonerMatt]

Is it that much better than, say, the Fuji GS?

I don't really need interchangable lenses, though I suppose the flash could be nice.

 

[Alan Gales]

Also look at the Pentax 645N or 645Nll. They have auto focus, auto film advance, program mode, matrix metering. I've owned both and they are fun to use. I've also owned the ETRsi. It's great if you don't care for the automation.

Of course Mamiya and Fuji made fine cameras too. You need to figure out what features are important to you and go with that camera. You can't really go wrong with any of them.

 

[Alan Gales]

[QUOTE="LonerMatt, post:

I don't really need interchangable lenses, though I suppose the flash could be nice.[/QUOTE]


I'd go with the Fuji or Bronica RF645 then. The Fuji will probably be easier to find.

 

[LonerMatt]

Also look at the Pentax 645N or 645Nll. They have auto focus, auto film advance, program mode, matrix metering. I've owned both and they are fun to use. I've also owned the ETRsi. It's great if you don't care for the automation.

Of course Mamiya and Fuji made fine cameras too. You need to figure out what features are important to you and go with that camera. You can't really go wrong with any of them.

Hey mate, I don't need to sound snarky (as that's not how I feel) - I did put the features that were must haves and things I wanted in the opening post.

I don't care for automation - the increased weight is usually the biggest problem for me, that and the (generally) more tricky use in manual mode (since I'd prefer to never shoot auto) usually makes it a bit of a pain.

 

[LonerMatt]

[QUOTE="LonerMatt, post:

I don't really need interchangable lenses, though I suppose the flash could be nice.

I'd go with the Fuji or Bronica RF645 then. The Fuji will probably be easier to find.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, now I'M the one not properly reading the thread! What a dickhead I am.

Question:
What do you think the differences between these really are? I know there are some different models of the Fuji, but in general terms is the RF THAT much better?

Plenty of RF's are available on ebay, they are about 2x the Fuji I'd buy (the 60mm lens one).

 

[MattKing]

May I enquire the reason for seeking the (relatively less common) vertical shooter?

Especially considering you are coming from a "horizontal" OM background.

 

[Alan Gales]

Hey mate, I don't need to sound snarky (as that's not how I feel) - I did put the features that were must haves and things I wanted in the opening post.

Here is a photo of the Pentax 645N. Notice that it has two tripod sockets. One on the bottom and one on the side.

Pentax 645 Nll images

You can get both a 75mm and if I remember correctly a 55mm lens for it. Camera can be shot manually and with both manual focus and autofocus lenses. The autofocus can be turned off easily and quickly. They are relatively light weight. About the same as a Pro SLR. They also have a built in light meter. So I think it fits all your criteria but since you don't need automation or interchangeable lenses you will most likely be better off with a rangefinder.

I've never shot the Bronica RF645 or the Fuji rangefinder cameras. They are both held in high regard though.

 

[Alan Gales]

[QUOTE="LonerMatt, post: 1861469, member: 81099

Sorry, now I'M the one not properly reading the thread![/QUOTE]

Don't worry about it. We all misread things occasionally.

Don't they say "No Worries!" in Australia? A very good friend of mine visited Australia and New Zealand for two months. He had the time of his life! I wish I could visit.

 

[LonerMatt]

Here is a photo of the Pentax 645N. Notice that it has two tripod sockets. One on the bottom and one on the side.

Pentax 645 Nll images

You can get both a 75mm and if I remember correctly a 55mm lens for it. Camera can be shot manually and with both manual focus and autofocus lenses. The autofocus can be turned off easily and quickly. They are relatively light weight. About the same as a Pro SLR. They also have a built in light meter. So I think it fits all your criteria but since you don't need automation or interchangeable lenses you will most likely be better off with a rangefinder.

I've never shot the Bronica RF645 or the Fuji rangefinder cameras. They are both held in high regard though.

Thanks - I'll have a deeper look into the system

May I enquire the reason for seeking the (relatively less common) vertical shooter?

Especially considering you are coming from a "horizontal" OM background.

I love how it looks. I've seen more and moe vertical images that I love, I can (of course) tilt a 35mm SLR pretty easily, but the more cube like 645s present some what of a problem. Looking through a WLT or the eye-piece ones at a 45 degree angle seems pretty uncomfortable. Especially when there are (I hope) as good cameras that shoot vertically natively.

 

[LonerMatt]

[QUOTE="LonerMatt, post: 1861469, member: 81099

Sorry, now I'M the one not properly reading the thread!

Don't worry about it. We all misread things occasionally.

Don't they say "No Worries!" in Australia? A very good friend of mine visited Australia and New Zealand for two months. He had the time of his life! I wish I could visit.[/QUOTE]

Mate! I say it all the time, I think most Aussies do too, it's a great saying .

 

[MattKing]

The later Mamiya 645 models - Super, Pro, Pro-Tl and 645e - work easily in both portrait and landscape orientation as long as you use them with the grips/motor-winders designed for them and a prism finder (built in to the 645e).

And the RB67 6x4.5 backs have a "native" portrait orientation (depending on your definition of "light" )

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

I've been very happy with the image quality from my GS645S - great lens. It's a pretty light and compact camera, and has a built in meter. Some have complained about the fragile lens mount, but with reasonable care I don't think it's a problem.

 

[winger]

You can get both a 75mm and if I remember correctly a 55mm lens for it. Camera can be shot manually and with both manual focus and autofocus lenses. The autofocus can be turned off easily and quickly. They are relatively light weight. About the same as a Pro SLR. They also have a built in light meter. So I think it fits all your criteria.....

I use my 645N handheld and fully manual a fair amount. Today, in fact. And with the tripod mount on the side to use it vertically when it got darker. I have the 75mm (AF), the 120mm macro (AF) and an older (non-AF) 45mm. I rarely (pretty much never) use the AF and the exposure is always in manual (I frequently use an incident meter instead of the built-in, though that one is very good).

 

[nanthor]

Another vote for the Bronica RF645, an incredibly sharp camera mostly due, I suspect, to the lenses designed with shorter flange to film distance than a camera with a mirror. Bob.

 

[Alan Gales]

I use my 645N handheld and fully manual a fair amount. Today, in fact. And with the tripod mount on the side to use it vertically when it got darker. I have the 75mm (AF), the 120mm macro (AF) and an older (non-AF) 45mm. I rarely (pretty much never) use the AF and the exposure is always in manual (I frequently use an incident meter instead of the built-in, though that one is very good).

I had the 75mm, 120mm macro and 150mm autofocus lenses and the 35mm manual focus lens. All four lenses were fantastic. I mostly shot mine with auto focus. It was a little slow compared to a modern DSLR but fine for shooting people (not sports). I used the 120mm for shooting flowers and such. I found manually focussing that lens to be a lot easier. I liked aperture priority for shooting people and manual for shooting other subjects. I found the Matrix metering in my 645Nll to work really well. Keep your N though. The mirror lock-up in the Nll is not necessary due to the fantastic mirror dampening of the Pentax cameras. I bought the Nll because someone made a mistake on Ebay and listed their Nll as an N. I got a deal on that one!

Bethe, if you like portraiture, the 150mm is wonderful. I know you can do it with the 120mm but I liked the 150 better. The 35mm is just pure fun!

 

[moto-uno]

Price you're willing to pay should probably be made clear as some of the Fuji's are a few hundred bucks
and the Bronica RF is more like a thousand and that's a deal braker for most . Peter

 

[LonerMatt]

That's fair.

However, at the moment it seems like there's just really two choices for vertical native shooters: the Fuji GS stuff and the Bronica RF.

If that's the case I'll probably grab the Fuji, but a few Bronica's are on ebay for ~800, which isn't that much more than the Fuji (which are around $300-400).

Will keep pondering.

 

[moto-uno]

^ Well my arithmatic is a bit rusty , but that's only 100% more isn't it ? Sorry , couldn't help myself . Peter

 

[macfred]

That's fair.

... but a few Bronica's are on ebay for ~800, which isn't that much more than the Fuji (which are around $300-400).

Wouldn't convince my wife ... That's how I ended up with my first FUJI GA645 (even though I wanted a Bronica RF so bad ... )

 

[mklw1954]

The original Pentax 645 (made from 1984-1999) is manual focus, and as noted for the 645n, there are two tripod sockets which enables vertical orientation. I've used one for the last 10 years and I am very happy with the ruggedness/reliability of the camera, the center-weighted metering, and excellent image quality from the lenses. For me, it is as easy to carry around as a 35mm camera. It comes only with a motor drive and eye-level metered viewfinder, you can't switch film in mid-roll, and exposure compensation is in 1-stop increments. The latter two features, frequently described as drawbacks, are not important to me.

 

[LonerMatt]

^ Well my arithmatic is a bit rusty , but that's only 100% more isn't it ? Sorry , couldn't help myself . Peter

Sure, but $2 is 100% more than $1.

I was thinking in terms of, well, if I buy it and like it, the extra $400 won't seem too onerous.

At the moment guys I think the Fuji GS645 seems like the best bet. I don't use a tripod, so the Pentax isn't really a go-er (also the weight is a concern, from what I looked at it weights 1.5+kg which would be a bit exhausting (I walk and shoot).

If I like the Fuji I will think about the Bronica

 

[Pioneer]

I would have to say that you seem to be looking for the Certo Super Sport Dolly, made back in the 1930s. There is no way that you can be tempted to shoot on auto because there is none. They come with a great 75mm f/2.8 Tessar. The camera slides easily into your pocket and shoots 6x6 or vertical 6x4.5 (using the built in mask) on good old 120 roll film. Most were equipped with the very reliable and easy to repair Compur leaf shutter with speeds from 1 second through to 1/250 seconds. The bellows are made of nice leather and the three I have used at this point have all been light tight after all these years. It does use the infamous red windows to tell you which frame you are on but there is a very nice little door that snaps in place over all of the red windows that nicely prevents light leakage.

Mine is the one without a rangefinder but there is a model with a coupled rangefinder. I prefer mine as the rangefinder unit adds additional bulk to the camera and the rangefinders may need some work by now (80 years old).

Just a suggestion.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Wot Pioneer sez.