Help me before I give up on Photography

[Ian David]

Some people swear by a squeegee. Some people swear at or against them. I never use one myself...

 

[Jimi and Jim and Janis]

I will take these suggestions into consideration.
but more over, can these spots or stains still be removed after the initial dry? could I wash it 100 times and still have these marks?

 

[Bob-D659]

Yes those marks could be permanent, but you won't know till you try something. You shouldn't really need Photoflo with a good distilled water rinse as there shouldn't be anything left to leave water marks. That's why the recommendations to use much less than the "book" amount. Also some rapid fixers just up and almost stop working when thay are at the end of their life. Keep track of what you've put thru the fixer, and don't exceed the recommended capacity.

 

[Jimi and Jim and Janis]

Well it was brand new fixer, but I think you have a point with the photo-flo. Why put it anyway, just one more thing that could cause a stain, no?

 

[dancqu]

Bleeding?

...with a good distilled water rinse as there shouldn't
be anything left to leave water marks.

There shouldn't be but if the emulsion is not clean
then residual amounts of chemistry can 'bleed' into
any remaining surface water. Dan

 

[drpsilver]

Jimi, Jim, and Janis...

The only real advise I can really give you (and it won't be a quick one) is for you to go to a local library, check out a book on traditional b&w processing and follow it to the letter. The only change you'd make will be the timing as today's chemicals are little different from old days. Don't rush the process. Then, re-evaluate your results. I *think* you are trying to do this by piecing together other people's practices and ideas and it is greatly confusing you.

This is hobby. You are supposed to enjoy the process, not rush through and get frustrated. Also, you would want to learn from the process by starting with known and established procedure and then make changes to make it better. Start from a good old book on the subject.

15 Oct 2009

I agree completely!

Regards,
Darwin

 

[Denis R]

read.....

go here kodak Technical Publications

t-max 400 your film's "user manual" pdf

processing pdf

more processing pdf

processing times pdf

chemicals index

come back after you read all!!

 

[pcyco]

hallo

one month ago i had similar problems.
maybe the dots are not the same problem as the stain.

here in vienna we have hard water and in my developmentprocess it is enough to put the film for one minute into dest. water with 2 drops of photoflo (1/4 liter)
then im hanging the film for drying and pull off the water with my fresh washed hands (sqeez between 2 fingers) i have tried it without sqeezing and only the dryingtime is longer.

my problem with dots were some small particles of fixer in the drum (which was not cleaned verx well. it seems so)

 

[pcyco]

hallo again

and again (now) a film with nice pics for the ......

 

[Schlapp]

I gave up photography last week. Really got the better of me as I was trying to produce an image that satisfied me. Lasted about a day then I found that if I just snapped away and had fun and forgot the technicalities it went better. For the record, I shot agfa chrome in an old Kiev60; developed it in B&W print developer for 2.5mins and printed as lith. Have fun!

BTW; spots really give a special looks to prints. Honest!

 

[Michael W]

Here's opinion #15
If the film actually has the pink colour that shows in the scan, then it wasn't fixed for long enough. As others have mentioned the Tmax films need about 10 minutes in the fix.

The marks - the small white dots are from dust, could be on the film or might be in your scanner. They are easy enough to clean off with compressed air, if on the film.

I can also see drying marks from water on the film, these are the curvy lines that define blob like shapes. I wish i could help you there but I'm having the same problem myself in Sydney. I've tried tap water, distilled water, Photo flo & Edwal, nothing has worked so far. I think I'll be trying a chamois or film squegee very soon.

 

[bdial]

The stains look like drying marks, re-washing sometimes helps, re-fixing won't.
6 or 8 drops is probably too much in 350 ml, try 1 possibly, two drops, and 30 seconds to 1 minute in the photoflo bath.

I find it difficult to get a reliable mix of photoflo using the drop method, I prefer to mix up a measured quantity. What works for me is to take a 1 gallon bottle of distilled and pour in 1/200 of a gallon (18.9 ml - I use 18) of photoflo.

 

[J Rollinger]

The only time i have ever got marks like that was when i forced-dried the negs .Rinse them well and let them dry through a normal process.

 

[David Allen]

Drying / fixing marks

Hi there, I have used T-max for many years and, at the start, had some problems. However, that was long ago. The following steps are what I always recommend and have always worked: Start your processing with two one-minute pre-soaks with constant agitation. Always tap the bottom of the developing tank after every inversion. Only use a water stop bath. Fix the film for three minutes with constant agitation. Pour out fix and give three one-minute washes with constant agitation. Then re-fix for another three minutes (all hint of a pink colour should now be gone). Give four washes using the Ilford method: First wash ten inversions, second wash ten inversions, third was twenty inversions, fourth wash twenty inversions then place in oversized jug with 20 drops of wetting agent and leave for 3 minutes. Finally, remove the film from the spiral, hold it up and pour the last wetting agent soak wash bath down both sides of the film. NEVER use a squeegee or anything like your fingers to get rid of excess water just let it drain a bit and then place in a dust free environment (don't use the heater if you have a drying cabinet). I process approximately 20 films every other day (mine and friends) using this method and never have any problems. Yes, I know it is a bit long-winded but it's much better than having a great shot ruined by processing failures. Hope that helps, best D.S. Allen.

 

[removed account4]

Hi there, I have used T-max for many years and, at the start, had some problems. However, that was long ago. The following steps are what I always recommend and have always worked: Start your processing with two one-minute pre-soaks with constant agitation. Always tap the bottom of the developing tank after every inversion. Only use a water stop bath. Fix the film for three minutes with constant agitation. Pour out fix and give three one-minute washes with constant agitation. Then re-fix for another three minutes (all hint of a pink colour should now be gone). Give four washes using the Ilford method: First wash ten inversions, second wash ten inversions, third was twenty inversions, fourth wash twenty inversions then place in oversized jug with 20 drops of wetting agent and leave for 3 minutes. Finally, remove the film from the spiral, hold it up and pour the last wetting agent soak wash bath down both sides of the film. NEVER use a squeegee or anything like your fingers to get rid of excess water just let it drain a bit and then place in a dust free environment (don't use the heater if you have a drying cabinet). I process approximately 20 films every other day (mine and friends) using this method and never have any problems. Yes, I know it is a bit long-winded but it's much better than having a great shot ruined by processing failures. Hope that helps, best D.S. Allen.

very good advice ..

... j-j-j,

maybe you should shoot a roll that doesn't matter as a "test" and process it ...
don't rush things,
don't use q tips,
don't squeegee with your glove ..
just process it and take your time ..

when you are done with your photoflo, hang the film, put a weight at the bottom
and leave the room until it is dry ...

don't forget to have some fun
john

 

[Ric Johnson]

Don't forget the "twice the time it makes to clear the film" process.

 

[Chazzy]

Hi there, I have used T-max for many years and, at the start, had some problems. However, that was long ago. The following steps are what I always recommend and have always worked: Start your processing with two one-minute pre-soaks with constant agitation. Always tap the bottom of the developing tank after every inversion. Only use a water stop bath. Fix the film for three minutes with constant agitation. Pour out fix and give three one-minute washes with constant agitation. Then re-fix for another three minutes (all hint of a pink colour should now be gone). Give four washes using the Ilford method: First wash ten inversions, second wash ten inversions, third was twenty inversions, fourth wash twenty inversions then place in oversized jug with 20 drops of wetting agent and leave for 3 minutes. Finally, remove the film from the spiral, hold it up and pour the last wetting agent soak wash bath down both sides of the film. NEVER use a squeegee or anything like your fingers to get rid of excess water just let it drain a bit and then place in a dust free environment (don't use the heater if you have a drying cabinet). I process approximately 20 films every other day (mine and friends) using this method and never have any problems. Yes, I know it is a bit long-winded but it's much better than having a great shot ruined by processing failures. Hope that helps, best D.S. Allen.

I believe he stated that he's using regular fixer, not rapid fixer, so won't he need to fix for longer?

 

[DWThomas]

From the spread of answers here, one might infer the actual procedures aren't that critical!

I've only done a few rolls of TMax, but don't recall having any problem with them, other than they took a fairly long time in the fixer,

One problem in this thread is when people specify a time, they don't always say which fixer, and that's pretty important to know. Also, fixer should be agitated frequently (more so than developer IMHO) to make sure it's doing its thing over all the film. I use plain old Kodak Fixer; if I'm doing a new film, I often pop the tank top after about 3 minutes and look at the film. If it looks clear, I can assume another 3 or 4 minutes will be plenty. If there's still milky residue showing, I know I'll need more. My darkroom is an interior basement room that seldom makes it to 70ºF, even in summer, so some of my processing is done at 65º or so and is slower.

And I almost hate to bring it up, but even the word "horizontal" is a bit ambiguous! One might hang the film with the end points at equal height and say "horizontal." But if one is smart, one will orient the actual plane of the film to be vertical so that droplets are sliding toward the edge of the film, not laying there on a flat surface. The results seen in the OP suggest that may have happened here.

OK, there's my 2-cents worth of added data point befuddlement. And don't give up, few of us did it perfectly every time when we started, some of us still have an occasional "Oh cr@p!" moment.

DaveT

 

[bdial]

I believe he stated that he's using regular fixer, not rapid fixer, so won't he need to fix for longer

No, the double the clear time is the general rule for all fixers, it just happens faster for rapid fixers. Tmax sometimes needs more for clearing the pink color, but I find it clears more effectivlely in the wash anyway.
So far as I know, there is no other reason TMAX may need more than double the clearing time.

 

[Jimi and Jim and Janis]

So should I just make sure to pre-wash the negative, then wash it a whole bunch of times after the fixer to make sure all traces of fixer are completely gone, then hang vertically with a clip on the end to way it down? Also, what about using a sponge to collect the water on the surface of the negative? Thank you guys so much, I could have easily been flamed at some other forum.

 

[John R.]

Your Photo Flo dilution concentration caused your drying marks. The concentration was too high. You need very little Photo Flo, it is extremely concentrated. Your distilled water was not the issue. Use very, very little Photo Flo in your final wetting bath before you dry. The film should be dried in a vertical hanging orientation. Some people will dry the film still loaded on a reel but that is prone to causing spotting. Hang the film with a standard clip at the top and a weighted clip at the bottom. Drying in a drying cabinet at low temp is preferred but if you do not have a cabinet then be sure and dry in as dust free of an environment as possible.

Fixing - You do not say what fixer you used. First make certain your mix ratio is correct for your stock solution. Fix the film as per the manufacturers instructions exactly, the total fix time must be in correct relation to the temperature of the working fixer solution. Different temps require different times. Make sure you are using a quality thermometer to measure your solution temperatures. The Weston thermometers are quite good. The Weston thermometer has a mirror band below the numerical scale which allows you to verify the needle position on the dial to make sure you are reading the temperature with the needle correctly aligned, otherwise you could be looking at the needle from an angle and misreading the temperature. Do not use cheap thermometers, they are never accurate. Your temps and times must be accurate. Your agititation must be as per manufacturers recommendation.

As others have noted - If you follow the data sheet instructions to the letter you will have no problems, period. Shoot some rolls of test images and practice your processing until you get it right before you try and process important images. get your technique and methods under control first. Somewhere, someplace in your process you did not follow instructions. Review everything, make yourself notes and carefully try again. You will get it right if you follow directions.

 

[Chris Nielsen]

i dunno about this photoflo thing, there seem to be many different answers, each with their own adherents... Personally I use it at the recommended dilution, 1:200. I can't see how you could measure accurately by 'drops', so I use 5ml per litre. Works great for me, I give the film a good shake then pull it out of the reel and very gently by running two photoflo wetted fingers, get rid of the excess solution then hang up by one end. I have no drying marks (nor scratches if I am gentle)

 

[Jimi and Jim and Janis]

Its very cool that everyone here left comments to help me out in a time of need, but Ive come to realize that there must be something else fundamentally wrong. It cant be kodak photo-flo or edwal, tap water or distilled, squeegee fingers or normal drying because there have been maybe people on this thread(and from the research I did) who completely contradict each other and swear by their methods. Its a big let down for me, but I promise to keep on trying until I find what works for me. Thank you all very much.

Sincerely,
Sebastian

 

[John R.]

It most definitely is the Photo Flo based on what I see in your scans. I have owned and operated two commercial labs here in Florida over the years and managed the color lab during my old college days in San Francisco. You have not elaborated on what exactly you did in your use of and technique with the Photo Flo so there is some assuming we have to make about your technique. I believe you said you hung the film horizontally to dry. That is a key mistake and frankly you must have draped the film to some degree and that would cause pooling or standing drops of wetting agent (Photo Flo). As those areas would then air dry it would then leave a residual mark in the shape of the standing or pooled liquid. Also, an over concentration in the working solution of the Photo Flo will cause a residual chemical trace as the liquid of the wetting agent evaporates. This is why you have the water mark looking stains.

 

[tkamiya]

Sebastian,

The reason people seem to contradict with each other is partly because you are getting just a small part of an entire workflow that he/she developed in years of experience and work for HIM. Trying to piece them together to make it yours may not work. It's a process, not just a collection of independent steps. I still would like to encourage you to start from well-documented and tried-and-true basics. Good luck, and don't forget to have fun.