Help deciding between 6x9 or 4x5 camera.

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

Hi everyone,

I've been reading like a maniac these last few days trying to get a good handle on everything and have narrowed my choices down to a camera similiar to the horseman 985 or hd45. Can you help decide what suits best?

Details about me and my shooting.

Before moving to Norway a few years ago I shot a lot of 6x7 on my trusty Mamiya. Due to cost and time I swapped to digital.

Taking photography and art a bit more serious now and am looking to shoot film
again. Some of my pictures can be found here https://www.instagram.com/leinadlad/

So I guess my interests are portraiture, art, fashion/editorial work. My preffered 35mm lens is my 50mm 1.2 followed by a 100mm macro.

Why do I want a view camera? The movements and film quality over digital (color reproduction, depth, etc.). I plan on doing more multiple exposure work. I am hoping this camera would replace my dslr for everything except for events/sports. But it won't live in the studio.

Why 6x9?
I think the rangefinder would allow me to shoot some handheld? E.g. For some on location portraits?
Roll film means I can afford colour film! If you saw my pictures I shoot more colour than bw
Greater convenience.

Why 4x5?
Greater lens selection and thus less limited movement?
Better quality negs. Easier to use GG? Read that the 6x9 is difficult without a viewer? Don't mean loupe but the viewfinder thingy...
Scared it's a "tripod only" deal.

Thanks in advance!

P.s. I wouldn't mind having a fp100c Polaroid option

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

Also worried about wide angle lens limitations on the 6x9s as I do go on the occasional hike

juan · Nov 5, 2016

You can get roll film backs for 4x5 cameras and shoot 6x9.

summicron1 · Nov 5, 2016

you will find 4 by 5 very limiting because of the tripod thing, and fuji has quit making polaroid fp100c anyway. Find a good hand-carryable 6 by 9 -- you used to use a mamiya -- why not go back to that? The negative size is not much smaller than 4 by 5 and they're practically giving away Mamiya lenses.

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

juan said:
You can get roll film backs for 4x5 cameras and shoot 6x9.

If I end up shooting mainly 6x9 it seems a waste to lug around all that extra camera? I don't know as I've never held/seen either in real life. I do know there were a lot of people lugging around way too much camera when the first digital backs came around though/before they make larger sensors.

Kawaiithulhu · Nov 5, 2016

Don't forget the Graflex option, a nice in-between from 6x9 style shooting to 4x5 which can still be carried and used without a tripod. Many come with a linked rangefinder that matches one lens.

The tradeoff is not much movement on the standards. But you only need movements if you're doing careful setup for architectural or the usual "big rock in your face and some trees on the horizon" wide angle landscapes.

Can also attach 6x6 / 6x7 / 6x9 backs for 120 rollfilm because all more recent models have a standard Graflok (Universal) back mechanism.

Ko.Fe. · Nov 5, 2016

Roll film is much more easier to handle, less expensive and some enlargers ain't as huge as for 4x5.
I ditched all 4x5 and have 6x9 classic German folder. Ten times less bulky than 4x5 cameras.

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

Kawaiithulhu said:
Don't forget the Graflex option, a nice in-between from 6x9 style shooting to 4x5 which can still be carried and used without a tripod. Many come with a linked rangefinder that matches one lens.

The tradeoff is not much movement on the standards. But you only need movements if you're doing careful setup for architectural or the usual "big rock in your face and some trees on the horizon" wide angle landscapes.

Can also attach 6x6 / 6x7 / 6x9 backs for 120 rollfilm because all more recent models have a standard Graflok (Universal) back mechanism.

Will have a look into them, but they sound too limited. I see myself using a bit of rise and in some cases some tilt/swing as I am looking to get some sharp all over macro or close focus shots. I.e, the typical leaves in a long frame all in focus

Ian Grant · Nov 5, 2016

I shoot 5x4 hand held with a Super Graphic and sometimes a Crown or Speed Graphic, I don't use the range-finder preferring to compose/focus on the GG screen which is easy with a hood then I use the sports finder to frame.

Back around 1986 I went through the same decision a 6x7/6x9 camera or 5x4,n the end the decision was either an RB67 or a 5x4 field camera and the one thing I knew I really needed was movements. I decided that the options were far better with a 5x4 field camera, I'd been using 5x4 commercially with a large heavy monorail so knew the differences in image quality, and of course I could use a roll film back a s well.

I've found the Crown Graphic rather limiting, poor movements and there's been times I've lost shots because of this, so that's why I switched to a Super Graphic, it has enough for all of my landscape work, and it's great hand-held. (I tend to keep the Super Graphic in Turkey and the Wista in the UK).

Ian

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

Ko.Fe. said:
Roll film is much more easier to handle, less expensive and some enlargers ain't as huge as for 4x5.
I ditched all 4x5 and have 6x9 classic German folder. Ten times less bulky than 4x5 cameras.

How's would you compare quality difference between the two formats? Most interested in large prints and 3D feel/falloff

Old-N-Feeble · Nov 5, 2016

It seems to me you need both. Your eclectic shooting styles dictate it.

CropDusterMan · Nov 5, 2016

Personally, I feel it's apples to oranges. The Fuji 6x9 is available in 65 and 90mm and is amazing...but the
4x5 is a completely different animal...size, tripod, camera movements etc. I use both systems. The Fuji 6x9
cameras are plentiful out of Japan on Ebay. 4x5's are too here in America, (I'm assuming also in Scandinavia?).

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

Old-N-Feeble said:
It seems to me you need both. Your eclectic shooting styles dictate it.

Haha my worst fears said out loud i do shoot a lot of different things...

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

CropDusterMan said:
Personally, I feel it's apples to oranges. The Fuji 6x9 is available in 65 and 90mm and is amazing...but the
4x5 is a completely different animal...size, tripod, camera movements etc. I use both systems. The Fuji 6x9
cameras are plentiful out of Japan on Ebay. 4x5's are too here in America, (I'm assuming also in Scandinavia?).

The Fuji isn't an option because I don't think they allow double exposures and the 90mm is too short and I'm assuming doesn't have any macro or movement possibilities. I'm looking at a 6x9 view camera, something like he horseman vhr or 985. Or 4x5

Norway is bad for film and film cameras. Little demand, high prices. For example it costs roughly 12usd to develop one roll of 35mm or 120 film at the store. Just develop.

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

Ian Grant said:
I shoot 5x4 hand held with a Super Graphic and sometimes a Crown or Speed Graphic, I don't use the range-finder preferring to compose/focus on the GG screen which is easy with a hood then I use the sports finder to frame.

Back around 1986 I went through the same decision a 6x7/6x9 camera or 5x4,n the end the decision was either an RB67 or a 5x4 field camera and the one thing I knew I really needed was movements. I decided that the options were far better with a 5x4 field camera, I'd been using 5x4 commercially with a large heavy monorail so knew the differences in image quality, and of course I could use a roll film back a s well.

I've found the Crown Graphic rather limiting, poor movements and there's been times I've lost shots because of this, so that's why I switched to a Super Graphic, it has enough for all of my landscape work, and it's great hand-held. (I tend to keep the Super Graphic in Turkey and the Wista in the UK).

Ian

Thanks Ian! Can you give me some more background on the super graphic? Lens quality and options and movement available? lens coverage etc. will of course google when I get the chance

CropDusterMan · Nov 5, 2016

Sorry Mate...my bad. I forgot about the dbl exposure you wanted. I had (sold it) a 6x9 back for my
Linhof 4x5, also the 100mm F2.8 lens designed for it. That could be an option. Sorry to hear of the lack
of good options for film processing there.

Ian Grant · Nov 5, 2016

If you go to Graflex.org there's details of the Super Graphic, later it was made by Toyo. Front tilt (both directions), front rise, swing, shift and a drop bed for greater front tilt, revolving back, Graflok back, range-finder etc. Lenses - what ever will fit so quite a wide choice, I use a 135mm f5,6 CAltar (Symmar S) or a T coated CZJ 150mm f4.5 Tessar, a 90mm f6.8 Angulon and a 203mm f7.7 Ektar.

Not so easy to find a Super Graphic in Europe though (I was lucky but mine needed work/parts) so watch for Import duty, VAT etc if importing from the US.

Ian

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

CropDusterMan said:
Sorry Mate...my bad. I forgot about the dbl exposure you wanted. I had (sold it) a 6x9 back for my
Linhof 4x5, also the 100mm F2.8 lens designed for it. That could be an option. Sorry to hear of the lack
of good options for film processing there.

No worries how often did you use the 6x9 back? Not so much seeing you sold it?

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

Ian Grant said:
If you go to Graflex.org there's details of the Super Graphic, later it was made by Toyo. Front tilt (both directions), front rise, swing, shift and a drop bed for greater front tilt, revolving back, Graflok back, range-finder etc. Lenses - what ever will fit so quite a wide choice, I use a 135mm f5,6 CAltar (Symmar S) or a T coated CZJ 150mm f4.5 Tessar, a 90mm f6.8 Angulon and a 203mm f7.7 Ektar.

Not so easy to find a Super Graphic in Europe though (I was lucky but mine needed work/parts) so watch for Import duty, VAT etc if importing from the US.

Ian

Looks like a great camera. It's a focal plane shutter though? Is it possible to use the leaf shutter lenses for flash sync and/or leave them open for regular shooting? Also is there any rear movement?

Also, when shooting it handheld, after focusing do you just stand in the same place whilst swapping to the film back?

Paul Howell · Nov 5, 2016

I use both 6X9 and 4X5, like Ian I shoot 4X5 hand held or with a mono-pod with a Crown Graphic, press cameras were designed to be used hand held. On the other hand my Mamyia Universal is heavier than my Crown and I often use it on a tripod. I dont use as much rise or tilt as others so my Crown is fine. My Speed is a ex navy model, over 60 years old, I broke the rangefinder decades ago but as field camera still gets the job done, my Crown is a little newer I swapped out the 135 lens for a Ziess 135 which works the cam, the rangefinder still works, very reliable cameras, not much to go wrong. Saying that if I had to do all over I would get a 6X9 Lindhoff or Horseman with 3 lens kit and keep a 4X5 view as well. Crowns, Speeds and most press cameras or field cameras have no or very limited rear movements.

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

Cheers Paul I'm liking the 6x9 more and more as I would like to stick with shooting colour. Do you easily see differences between the formats? If so at what print sizes etc.

Bill Burk · Nov 5, 2016

I find the extra "width" of horizontal 6x9 format makes for satisfying landscapes.

Folders such as Bessa and Ikonta make great hiking cameras because everything you need fits in a small case that you can stuff in your pack.

Ian Grant · Nov 5, 2016

No the Super Graphic doesn't have a Focal Plane shutter, that's the Speed Graphic essentially a Crown Graphic with an FP shutter, confusingly the Super Speed Graphic is just a plain Super Graphic with a lens in a fast 1/100o second leaf shutter, highly unreliable at high speeds D

Field cameras have good movements, press cameras don't, then there's metal bodied Technical cameras like the Linhof Technicas nand the MPP Micro Technicals (Linhof copies as part of War reparations) with a lot of movements, The Super Graphic was a sort of bridge between the Crown/speed Graphics and the Linhof and MPP cameras in Europe, a lot cheaper than a Linhof.

All the wood bodied field cameras I know of have excellent movements. I looked at a Shen Hao a few weeks ago and if I found one at the right price I'd retire my heavily over-used Wista 45DX.

Ian

Ian Grant · Nov 5, 2016

Bill Burk said:
I find the extra "width" of horizontal 6x9 format makes for satisfying landscapes.

Folders such as Bessa and Ikonta make great hiking cameras because everything you need fits in a small case that you can stuff in your pack.

I disagree that they have everything you need because they have no movements, I was using MF cameras some images needed movements really just a bit of front tilt and fall to compensate. It depends on what your shooting, I use a 6x9 Ensign 820 but not for serious project work, I use TLRs as well. I actually made a MF field camera to take to North America 2 months ago because I knew I wanted front tilt.

It's a case of either working to the limitations of a camera or having a camera that's far more versatile

Ian

crumpet8 · Nov 5, 2016

One of the horseman rangefinders sounds promising then. A bit more movement than the press cameras. Anyone have some recommendations on which camera and lenses? I read they had some series with different coverage? I shoot mainly with my 50mm 1.2 (35mm format) and then a 100mm

Help deciding between 6x9 or 4x5 camera.

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