HELP! Chemical Disposal options

[Ektagraphic]

Hello-
I was hoping to renovate my darkroom making a permanant set up. I have a septic system, with a leeching field here so I went to investigate what the developers do to the septic and came back with figuring out that this is not a good idea although most people do it. SO...I was wondering what some of my alternatives are to dumping into the septic (besides not having a darkoom at all!). What are some of the things those that play by the rules are doing?

Thanks,

Patrick

 

[Kirk Keyes]

Try searching on APUG - there are many threads on this subject.

 

[CBG]

With one exception, the solutions used in a home BW darkroom are pretty benign.

Please note, I am not referring to big commercial operations where thousands of gallons of everything need disposal; I refer only to modest home operations where annual film use is in tens or hundreds of rolls. Larger scale processing needs to get a thorough environmental overview.

Nor am I referring to non-standard processes. I'm talking about your basic develop, stop, fix, wash aid, wash, and modest volume toning. If you use comparatively exotic items, you will need to research them one by one. Also, if you live in a community where chemical phobic ninnies run the show, they will tell you that everything photographic is a terrible danger, and that all solutions need to be dealt with as grave hazards. You will simply need to comply in those communities. Funny, the sodium hydroxide in some developers is an environmental disaster, but the same used as drain cleaner is fine. Hydroquinone in hair products is fine, but Hydroquinone in developer is dangerous... It goes on and on in that vein.

But, in saner localities, developer is not an issue. Stop bath and wash aid are fine too. Selenium toner in moderation too.

The only solution that is always at issue is used fixer because it contains silver that has been dissolved out of the film and paper. Silver is toxic enough in small amounts that it is used widely as a anti-microbial. It should be kept out of the waste stream even in hobby / household amounts.

There are a number of threads that deal extensively with removal of silver from used fix so you can easily get up to speed with a search. Use APUG's Google search feature. It works way better.

I'm not a chemist so what follows on use of selenium toning comes from www.heylloyd.com/technicl/acid_free.htm and www.heylloyd.com/technicl/seuse.htm. There are many threads discussing selenium toner usage. Unfortunately much of the widely available information on selenium toning appears to to encourage wasteful usage and premature disposal. If selenium toner is always used in an alkaline environment, it doesn't crud up, and stays clean, and can be used for a very long time. Don't go direct from an acid fix to selenium toner. Make the paper alkaline by an sulfite bath (wash aid). Don't mix selenium toner with the wash aid because wash aid dies far earlier. It will take you a few minutes longer, but your toner should last almost indefinitely.

 

[jp498]

it's a common enough topic on here.

Fixer is bad if it gets into the water system. It's probably better to put it into a properly functioning septic system than a municipal system that processes it and puts the water into the ocean or river. Of course best would be silver recovery first.

Most other chemicals are fine except for a couple of developers I don't use. Search the archives for more detail.

 

[Ektagraphic]

I guess the biggest thing is that I have not found one developer out there who's manufacturer says that it will not damage the bacteria of the septic system. I am looking into Freestyle's Eco Pro chemicals to see if those can possibly be dumped without a problem....

 

[Mike Wilde]

Developers can be a no no on septic. Thier high BOD sucks all the oxygen up, to the beneficial microbes demise.

Pour the spent developer into a bucket. At the end of the day, leave a fish tank aeration stone bubbling in it overnight.

In the morning it will be black; BOD is no longer a problem. Neutralize the pH with a mild acid (vinegar or stop bath kept from the night before, and it is good to go down the drain.

For fixer metallic replacement is an option. I have tried this, and find it a PIA. I re-use fixers to a safe point, and then leave them to evaporate in my garage, and take the resulting litre of flakes/sludge every year or to to the HHW depot.

When I did metallic replacement I would use the de-silvered raffinate as a fertilizer for the lawn mixed in with the watering can, since I only use ammonium based fixers, and less silver I consider it a ferrous fertilizer.

 

[Ektagraphic]

Mike- Thanks for that tip!!!! That might really save me! I don't think I am familiar with the aeratinon stones as I have never had a fish tank but I will look into it!, and please excuse my ignorance but what does BOD stand for?

 

[Aurum]

Mike- Thanks for that tip!!!! That might really save me! I don't think I am familiar with the aeratinon stones as I have never had a fish tank but I will look into it!, and please excuse my ignorance but what does BOD stand for?

Biological Oxygen Demand. Its a measure of how much work a sewage plant needs to digest waste. Its the same reason that fish die when a bit of sewage hits a river. The sewage isn't poisonous, just that the microbes that digest it suck all the oxygen out the water and therefore bye bye fishies

 

[Ektagraphic]

So if I feed the developer oxygen through tabs, it will be satified? Basically?

 

[Aurum]

So if I feed the developer oxygen through tabs, it will be satified? Basically?

Yep, Cheap little air pump and bubble stone from your local pet shop should do it. In the UK about 20 GBP, or $20-30 in the US (Guesstimate)

http://www.petstore.com/Aquarium_Aeration-AQAE-ct.html

For instance

 

[Neal]

Dear Patrick,

I collect my leftover chemicals and take them to the local household waste station. They accept them as hobby chemicals. My only issue is that I wait until the trip is worth it and the fellows usually ask if it is waste from a business. Never an issue once I explain the situation.

Neal Wydra

 

[fotch]

....................
For fixer metallic replacement is an option. I have tried this, and find it a PIA. I re-use fixers to a safe point, and then leave them to evaporate in my garage, and take the resulting litre of flakes/sludge every year or to to the HHW depot.

When I did metallic replacement I would use the de-silvered raffinate as a fertilizer for the lawn mixed in with the watering can, since I only use ammonium based fixers, and less silver I consider it a ferrous fertilizer.

Mike, I have a question for you. How long does it take to evaporate?

I did a little experiment, and with plain water in a container, no lid, kept out of the rain, was still there after a week and a half. Very discouraging.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

In the morning it will be black; BOD is no longer a problem.

Have you verified this with all developers? I don't beleive it is a true statement.

My experiance as an analytical chemist tells me that this is not going to be true will all developers. BOD from sulfite in the developer could last much longer than a simple overnight sit in a bucket. Simply turning black is not proof there is no BOD - it only means the developer has turned black.

But the way - I don't want to say that the BOD needs to be eliminated. There's a lot of BOD that you're flushing down the toilet every day. Much more than you get from a liter of developer.

 

[Ektagraphic]

What are the exact substances within these developers that would cause the problem?

 

[Ektagraphic]

Is there a way that I could use these oxygen tablets with my D-76 and attempt to check to see if it is safe to go down the drain? How can I prove this works?

 

[removed account4]

patrick

sometimes the best thing to do is
find out from the people that make the developer...

seeing you use sprint, and d76 chemistry,
why don't you contact sprint and kodak directly...
maybe they can make recommendations,
instead of doing something that might not work ...

 

[Ektagraphic]

I only use sprint when I am at the AS220 darkoom but at home it is all Kodak. They basically told me that people with septic systems shouldn't have a darkroom. They are unaware to do any treatment to the developer...So that is why I am looking for alternative methods. I will give Sprint a call tomorrow though and I could switch to them if they have a method.

 

[Mike Wilde]

dry time

Mike, I have a question for you. How long does it take to evaporate?

I did a little experiment, and with plain water in a container, no lid, kept out of the rain, was still there after a week and a half. Very discouraging.

I use a stainless steel food service warming tray; about 12" x24" x 4" deep. Lts of surface area.

I sit it on top oif the upright freezer in the garage, and the heat from my wife's car thaws it from time to time if it is winter tiem. In the spring I move it out to the top of a wood storage cabinet that places it under the eaves and out of being rained on, that gets sun for about 8 hours a day.

Winter I am lucky to process down 4 litres in 3 months.

Summer time a couple of litres can be dried out in as little as a week and a half.

 

[Mike Wilde]

Have you verified this with all developers? I don't beleive it is a true statement.

My experiance as an analytical chemist tells me that this is not going to be true will all developers. BOD from sulfite in the developer could last much longer than a simple overnight sit in a bucket. Simply turning black is not proof there is no BOD - it only means the developer has turned black.

But the way - I don't want to say that the BOD needs to be eliminated. There's a lot of BOD that you're flushing down the toilet every day. Much more than you get from a liter of developer.

Kirk - I will accede that 'gone' may be an over statement; 'greatly reduced and generally much less of a concern' would be the much more conservative way of making the statement.

Developing formulae with glycin in them will need a lot longer fizzing to get into better shape to dispose of than ones with with just metol and hq.

The bubbler stone I have used in the past did a respectable job stirring up the pail though, so sulfite in solution would be stirred into the air stream as well.

 

[jp498]

Besides the chemistry discussion, you could also just bring your chemicals into town and they probably wouldn't have any measurable effect on a public sewer treatment system.

 

[r-brian]

What people don't think about is the cumulative effect that may occur, that is, what happens 5 or 10 years down the road, not 5 or 10 months.

Fact: More drinking water wells have been impacted by septic tanks in the state of New Mexico than from all other sources combined. These are properly functioning septic systems, not failing systems. The wells for the most part are affected by nitrate contamination, the concentration of nitrate exceeds the 10 mg/l safe drinking limit. This is from a cumulative effect. And if you have a septic system, there's a very good chance you have a drinking water well on the property also. Rule of thumb: What goes in your septic system may end up in your or your neighbors' wells.

For the most part the BOD is not a problem, septic tanks are an anaerobic enviroment. The chemicals can have a short term affect on the microbic population; so can common cleaning chemicals. Aerating the chemicals may oxidize the chemicals to a safer form or air strip off the more volatile chemicals. If you have to use gloves and a respirator to mix your chemicals (such as pyro developers) than it's probably not a good idea to put them in the septic system. If you have an aerobic advanced treatment system, then the addition of chemicals can have a killing effect on the system (so can the discharge from your water softener).

Silver and selenium are listed in the Clean Water Act as pollutants and they're concentrations are monitered in the sludge disposed from municipal wastewater treatment plants. There is a cumulative loading that is allowed. So, for the most part, keep silver and selenium (and any other heavy metals) out of the system.

My background: I'm the technical person for the New Mexico Environment Department, Liquid Waste Program (i.e. septic tank program).

 

[Ektagraphic]

For the most part the BOD is not a problem, septic tanks are an anaerobic enviroment.

Does any of this change if it is a septic tank with a leaching field?

 

[r-brian]

Does any of this change if it is a septic tank with a leaching field?

No. Any oxygen that goes into a traditional septic tank is used up very quickly in the tank. The environment is anaerobic and the bacteria are anaerobic/faculative bacteria. The average detention time in a septic tank is usually 2-4 days.

Aerobic conditions need to be maintained in the soil under the drainfield for additional in soil (in-situ) treatment. This is the part of the system most people do not understand. The reason for requiring a specific square feet of trench and for suitable soil under the leach field is to provide treatment. In the case of nitrogen, ammonia/ammonium (NH3/NH4+) is discharged. Under aerobic conditions in the soil, the ammonia/ammonium is converted to nitrate (NO3+). Nitrate is water soluble and transports to the water table very readily, which is the reason wells can be affected. Usually it is a density issue, too many systems discharging in a too small of an area (this area could be whole subdivisions or towns). In rare cases, a single septic system can contaminate a nearby well, depending on soil type in the area and other geologic factors.

 

[CBG]

I guess the biggest thing is that I have not found one developer out there who's manufacturer says that it will not damage the bacteria of the septic system. I am looking into Freestyle's Eco Pro chemicals to see if those can possibly be dumped without a problem....

There is no way to safely dispose of fix till the silver has been removed. All the rest of the solutions are fine unless you are disposing of big quantities or out of the ordinary materials (see my earlier post).

 

[CBG]

... the wells for the most part are affected by nitrate contamination ...

Can you tell us the source of the nitrate?

... If you have an aerobic advanced treatment system ...

Can you briefly say what an aerobic advanced treatment system is?