Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania

[kb3lms]

Welcome to APUG, Dave. Great to see you guys here!

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I hope once your business takes off you will consider becoming a Sponsor of APUG.

This is already high on our priority list!

The value of resources like APUG is not lost on us and we will be showing our support very soon.

 

[Nzoomed]

We hope that it's no more than a couple of months after we ship the first batch to backers. If everything goes our way over the next 6 months, it might be just a matter of weeks after the Kickstarter fulfillment. It's tough to put a date on it right now.



I saw mention of these questions in another thread I was scanning. All very valid.

We have no plans to build a new building at this time. If we run out of room, this would be a great problem to have because it would mean that we are highly successful and financially able to expand operations beyond this footprint.

The first 6 months of this project were of course occupied in figuring out what was needed from the old buildings and understanding how to incorporate this stuff into the LRF.

Regarding fitting the equipment, I know that there are actual blueprints for the changes and that the building has undergone extensive modifications over the past 8 months to allow room for the new machinery.

To be clear, "Trixie" in her current state is 6 "industrial scale" triacetate production lines, as well as one much smaller pilot line. We are purchasing the pilot and just 3 of the big lines. We will incorporate the pilot line as soon as possible, and it is my understanding that at least one of the full scale machines can also be squeezed into the building. The other two are for the future and it's unclear where we might put them. But there is lots of empty real estate around the LRF that ISN'T being demolished any time soon...

"Walter" is a collection of something like 100+ small-ish machines that together make a production "line". The LRF can easily accommodate this equipment simply by reorganizing existing machinery and freeing up rooms that now have no relevant purpose.

"Big Boy" refers to the big coater that makes 300 millions rolls per year, but we are purchasing a small number of components from this giant machinery - mostly pieces of the drying tunnel for the eventual expansion of our current one. Fitting this into the LRF was tricky, but they have a solution on paper that primarily uses former office space and converts most of one floor into a light-tight box to eventually house our future drying tunnel. If we max it out - again, this is a good problem to have.

The converting machines are relatively easy. We have an entire ground floor that used to be parking space for trucks, some storage and a few offices. This space is better used for production and has been gutted and outfitted to receive all of our finishing machinery.

As soon as we are able, we are going to put together some sort of factory walkthrough to share with everyone.

-Dave

That clears it up very well for me thanks Dave.
After looking at all the photos on your article in the link below i was overwhelmed by the amount of equipment and space required to house it, but im confident you wont leave out any critical equipment and will be able to adapt production for the future market. Im hoping i will be able to buy some solaris in 126 format for my instamatic once again!
What is the planned name for the reversal film going to be? FerraniaChrome comes to mind.
Dead Link Removed

 

[Regular Rod]

Thanks for the welcome!



The idea, as it stands today, is thus:
a) At the start - we are going sell directly via our website and ship globally from two warehouses. The first will be in the US, and Bulgaria will come very soon after. We will expand this structure over time with a goal to provide best-possible shipping costs for everyone.
b) Later, once our production capacity permits, we will answer the hundreds of emails we have received from individual shops around the world.
c) Much later, once we achieve some level of cost control, we will consider entering the traditional distribution structure - but our general philosophy will be get the film into cameras with as few stops in between as possible.
d) At some point in between "later" and "much later," we will open an OEM channel, making products that support the wider industry.

Keep the questions coming!

Please deal with us directly and eschew the traditional distribution channels. Film costs such a lot these days, it would be great to have one fewer set of mouths to feed that inevitably increases the prices to us, the customers. The folk in the channel are not your clients, we are!

RR

 

[Regular Rod]

So I reckon I should add a question, seeing as they're coming in already.
What are your plans, if any, for sheet film?
Firstly, is it technically possible with your equipment (thickness of base, width of slitting, slicing into sheets)?
And secondly, if you can, will you?
I know the market for 4x5 E6 might be fairly small compared to others, so you'd really have to compete with Fuji on price (currently $130 for 20x 4x5 or $450 for 20x 8x10 RVP50, or $90/$300 for 100/100F). Or maybe you can replicate/replace sensia/astia on colour, they had a lot of fans. Or you could just sit it out until if/when Fuji pulls the plug on the whole lot, then ride in like the cavalry and pick up all of their old customers.

Also, any plans to replicate something like the Ilford ULF run, even if just in rolls, and offer all the weird 110/126/127/616/828/etc sizes once a year?

+1 for sheet film asap!

4x5, whole-plate and 8x10 would be a good start...

RR

 

[FILM Ferrania]

First of all, welcome to APUG and thank you for creating this Q&A (& 'request') thread.

I'm honored by the warm welcome!

- Will you be selling 100, 150, 400 feet bulk rolls?

We have ideas about bulk rolls, yes. But this is for the future when capacity allows for such products.

- Since you haven't started massive scale production yet, if possible, please use 35mm cassettes that we can dissasseble and reuse multiple times. Ideally speaking, it would be best if guys can use something like Ilford's FP3 and HP3 film cassettes from the late 60s.

This is actually harder and more expensive than to simply spool the film into regular old cassettes - even on a small scale. And while we do plan to recycle/reuse cassettes as much as feasibly possible, this will all be internal to maintain quality. Of course, once bulk rolls are possible, we will need to make cassettes - but that's too far in the future to speculate about further.

- please, please, please, keep the price as low as possible. I hope you'll not be following Fuji's pricing. As an e.g., price of Agfa Precisa is lot less straining on me than anything from Fuji, even though it's still quite high. I hope you get my drift.

You and several other people have layered on many "pleases" in requesting low prices. We are very sorry to say that "please" is unfortunately not a real cost driver. We wish this were not the case...

We do understand basic economics and the principle of "what the market will bear" - and so we expect to be very competitively priced. Until the first batch is out the door, we simply cannot know our true costs with any certainty - and therefore, we also don't know the price.

What we can say about the retail price is this: we are committed to keeping a consistent price, even if it means terrible margins for us and slower growth until our capacity/cost issues are fully resolved.

As in all things, the goal is to get great film in as many cameras as possible.

- Will you be producing some stickers? I want to get some for my friends

Yes.

- Don't forget to assign at least one distributor for and within Indian subcontinent.

Noted.

- Please tell us a bit about your plan on E-6 chemicals?

When "Walter" is installed, we will be able to produce processing chemistry of all sorts. That is the extent of the plans as of today since this is not yet a dire situation that must be addressed immediately.

In the short term, we are at the mercy of existing labs and chemical supplies.

-Dave

 

[ME Super]

I knew it! Ferrania is the color Ilford, and Dave Bias is their Simon Galley!

Welcome aboard Dave. Glad to see Ferrania also having a presence on APUG.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Welcome! Your participation to APUG is most appreciated!

I would like to ask you the same question as Dr Croubie did but about 5x7 format.
Will you run once a year a special order for uncommon cut sheet film formats?

Dominique

This is explained a bit more thoroughly in other answers. The short answer is that we hope to be able to offer short-runs and special orders in a variety of formats, but not until capacity (and coating head size) permits.

To add to the previous answers, I can say that the rate at which we are able to expand our selection will be largely based on sales of the existing selection. Our current plans are for a slow growth with all profits going straight back into expansion of operations. More sales = faster expansion.

-Dave

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Do you have an equivalent colleague in the UK?

RR

Not yet. Unclear when we will expand staff. Not until we have film to sell, of course...

 

[Dr Croubie]

• Once we are finished with our machinery purchases from the old Ferrania buildings, we will have the potential to produce about 95% of film formats produced in the 20th century - even some of the really weird ones.
• The difference between having the potential to produce these other formats, and being able to deliver finished products for retail sale is a big one. This will require time and one success building on another success. Plus a lot of polling... We fully plan to let the market drive this as much as possible.

Disclaimer on the line below notwithstanding, you do realise that them's dangerous words to be saying, especially around here?

As soon as you say something like that you're going to get requests from weirdos asking for thin-based 4x5 and 3.25x4.25 in 12-packs and such (like Kodak TXP523), and 5.5" / 9.5" rolls for aerial cameras?

Like from me.
:munch:

(but I'm happy to fill your pockets shooting 617s in 120 until you can repay me by making 4x5s)

 

[FILM Ferrania]

So I reckon I should add a question, seeing as they're coming in already.
What are your plans, if any, for sheet film?
Firstly, is it technically possible with your equipment (thickness of base, width of slitting, slicing into sheets)?
And secondly, if you can, will you?
I know the market for 4x5 E6 might be fairly small compared to others, so you'd really have to compete with Fuji on price (currently $130 for 20x 4x5 or $450 for 20x 8x10 RVP50, or $90/$300 for 100/100F). Or maybe you can replicate/replace sensia/astia on colour, they had a lot of fans. Or you could just sit it out until if/when Fuji pulls the plug on the whole lot, then ride in like the cavalry and pick up all of their old customers.

Also, any plans to replicate something like the Ilford ULF run, even if just in rolls, and offer all the weird 110/126/127/616/828/etc sizes once a year?

I think I caught most of this in other answers... If I missed something, please let me know.

 

[ME Super]

Glad to see that you're planning to introduce higher speed reversal films. The world needs higher speed reversal film, as right now the fastest is ISO 100. Would love to see a tungsten-balanced high-ish speed film, as lower light levels are usually tungsten-balanced. But if not, then the 800-3200 daylight film that you're proposing could work with filtration.

Any plans for tungsten balanced films? 35mm and 120 are good enough for me.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

[/LIST]

Disclaimer on the line below notwithstanding, you do realise that them's dangerous words to be saying, especially around here?

As soon as you say something like that you're going to get requests from weirdos asking for thin-based 4x5 and 3.25x4.25 in 12-packs and such (like Kodak TXP523), and 5.5" / 9.5" rolls for aerial cameras?

There's some famous expression about "most of the people, most of the time"... Right?

Requests are fine. Expectations, on the other hand, must have some basis in reality.

But I totally understand that there are many products for which the market size is exactly ONE. If the market size is one and we make nothing else that interests that one person - then I'm afraid that one person will forever believe we are evil and specifically in business to prevent them from experiencing photographic pleasure. It will be sad, but we will soldier on making something for most of the people, most of the time.

Five years ago, I helped start the US office for Impossible. I doubt anyone on this very friendly, mature and mannered forum will ever drop a bomb on me that I haven't already experienced 10-fold at Impossible...

With that said, we do plan to introduce an unprecedented amount of flexibility into the production environment - much of it out of sheer necessity and always with the ambition to allow for small-batch production in the future.

-Dave

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Any plans for tungsten balanced films? 35mm and 120 are good enough for me.

It seems that after years of low sales, there are suddenly several options for tungsten films. CineStill, most notably. And Lomo recently released one as well, I believe.

But from conversations with our founder, I understand that tungsten films are relatively easy to produce (meaning they do not require extensive R&D) and as our product selection expands, adding T films will be a given - assuming the market continues to support additional choices.

As I've said before, however, the short term goal is to fill obvious holes in the market.

-Dave

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

There's some famous expression about "most of the people, most of the time"... Right?

[...]

But I totally understand that there are many products for which the market size is exactly ONE.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one."



Ken

 

[Fixcinater]

There's some famous expression about "most of the people, most of the time"... Right?

Requests are fine. Expectations, on the other hand, must have some basis in reality.

But I totally understand that there are many products for which the market size is exactly ONE. If the market size is one and we make nothing else that interests that one person - then I'm afraid that one person will forever believe we are evil and specifically in business to prevent them from experiencing photographic pleasure. It will be sad, but we will soldier on making something for most of the people, most of the time.

Five years ago, I helped start the US office for Impossible. I doubt anyone on this very friendly, mature and mannered forum will ever drop a bomb on me that I haven't already experienced 10-fold at Impossible...

With that said, we do plan to introduce an unprecedented amount of flexibility into the production environment - much of it out of sheer necessity and always with the ambition to allow for small-batch production in the future.

-Dave

Thanks for your presence here. I'm looking forward to supporting your new company. 127 reversal film would be most excellent.

 

[munz6869]

Another big thanks for having a presence here Dave! Long may Ferrania continue!

I will also add my enthusiasm for web orders of film - here in Australia, the price of film from local distributors is astonishing (for example, a box of Kodak TXP320 in 5x4" is AU$156.20 vs US$91.99 at B&H online - if you order more than one box, you save LOTS of money even with shipping). Anyone who shoots a lot of film would be insane to buy it locally. Easy web ordering, even from Ferrania US, would make the product a lot more accessible, as strange as that sounds.

Marc!

 

[Ektagraphic]

Hello! There are so many questions thrown out there, that I can't think of anything, but as a supporter of the Kickstarter, I just wanted to drop a Hello! Thanks for coming to the forum and also answering so many questions! It is and will be greatly appreciated around here! This kind of transparency is what we were looking for! (Pun intended!)

 

[horacekenneth]

Is there any potential for making positive to positive photographic paper?

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Is there any potential for making positive to positive photographic paper?

To be honest, I have not discussed papers with the founders in any detail. We have our work cut out for us simply making film. To put it extremely mildly... But I will endeavor to learn more and report back.

 

[trythis]

How big is the 8mm / 16mm market compared to still as Ferrania sees it? Just curious about that and will you continue to offer movie developing?

 

[Nzoomed]

To be honest, I have not discussed papers with the founders in any detail. We have our work cut out for us simply making film. To put it extremely mildly... But I will endeavor to learn more and report back.

I was wondering about papers too, although i dont currently use them myself, i would imagine that a separate coating facility would be required for paper would it not? From what i understand it cant be coated on the same machinery as the film.
How long did Ferrania make papers up to for interest?

 

[Jeff Kubach]

Welcome to APUG!

Jeff

 

[TheToadMen]

The idea, as it stands today, is thus:
a) At the start - we are going sell directly via our website and ship globally from two warehouses. The first will be in the US, and Bulgaria will come very soon after. We will expand this structure over time with a goal to provide best-possible shipping costs for everyone.
(...)
d) At some point in between "later" and "much later," we will open an OEM channel, making products that support the wider industry.

Hello Dave,
I'm happy to see you're firing up production of some new films.
If you're gonna need a distributer for Benelux (The Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg) between "later" and "much later", I'm willing to help your fine project. I have a small business and good connections with a local brick & mortar photo store in the middle of Holland.
Bert from Holland

 

[analoguey]

Welcome to APUG, Dave! And it's awesome to be backing Ferrania, I hope you guys go ahead and fulfil the 100 years pledge well!


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