Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania

Nzoomed · Nov 12, 2014

ME Super said:
It may not be ideal to print reversal film with a hybrid process, but if the last step of that hybrid process doesn't involve ink jet on paper, but instead is printed on real photo paper using silver halides (and dyes if color), it's good enough for what I use it for. My target audience (family members) doesn't care if it's printed in an analog-only process - they just want it to be pleasing to the eye. Yes, I know that's near heresy here, but that's life. Go Ferrania! (That's equivalent to a Hail Ansel, right? )

Well i tend to agree.
With today's dye sublimation printers, i expect this is the closest thing to Ilfochrome.
What is unclear to me if the dyes used are the same stable Azo type dyes that were used in Ilfochrome.
Scanning doesnt bother me too much, but as others pointed out, you can have problems with grain aliasing, although this appears to be largely dependent on the scanner itself.

Ten301 · Nov 13, 2014

Dave, does Ferrania have the equipment to produce film in the APS format? I realize that the format was never successful, but there are still a lot of APS cameras out there, including my APS SLR's which I would love to use again. Maybe Ferrania would be better positioned and sized to produce it?

StoneNYC · Nov 13, 2014

AgX said:
What about a light-tight (not checked for IR yet) plastic cannister as this?

http://www.macodirect.de/images/Rollei_Superpan_RSP2001-325.jpg

Maco did sell them empty. But buying a few film for the cannisters wouldn't be that bad either.

I have lots of them, they aren't light tight and the lids pop off and snag on things all the time.

Thanks though, I have tons of those. I also have a few old metal ones that are split in the middle, but have no threading so they also fall apart when you grab them etc.

StoneNYC · Nov 13, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
I bought some Rollei IR400 from maco the other week, and it came in a plastic tube like that. So unless they have two types and only one is IR tight (which would be silly really, making them all the same would be cheaper), I'd guess that they're all fine for IR.

Yes that's the stuff I have but it's not actually IR PROOF just resistant, anyway let's not detract from asking FILMferranja the questions and let them decide how to answer instead of giving subjective info.

Roger Cole · Nov 13, 2014

ME Super said:
It may not be ideal to print reversal film with a hybrid process, but if the last step of that hybrid process doesn't involve ink jet on paper, but instead is printed on real photo paper using silver halides (and dyes if color), it's good enough for what I use it for. My target audience (family members) doesn't care if it's printed in an analog-only process - they just want it to be pleasing to the eye. Yes, I know that's near heresy here, but that's life. Go Ferrania! (That's equivalent to a Hail Ansel, right? )

The thing is, unless there's a new <$1000 desktop sized lambda/lightjet etc. unit I don't know about, you can't actually DO that yourself, unlike either ink jet or optical printing. You have to have it done for you. For some of us that's an important distinction, though one could argue if you do all the ... prep and they just output the file, that it's akin to having them just process your paper or run standardized film processes. I don't have any issue having a lab do my C41 or E6 because, even though I COULD do it myself, there really isn't much room for creativity or deviation from the standard there (and what there is, pushing for example, is typically also available from labs.) Not so with printing.

But yeah, I agree, get us film first. There's enough we can do with a good E6 film, especially if it varies significantly (color, contrast, film speed [ah-hem] etc.) from other offerings still available.

Nzoomed · Nov 13, 2014

Roger Cole said:
But yeah, I agree, get us film first. There's enough we can do with a good E6 film, especially if it varies significantly (color, contrast, film speed [ah-hem] etc.) from other offerings still available.

Yes, i agree.
Since Ferrania is currently working on E6, its probably well worth them putting their R&D into such products.
Although i personally would be happy enough to only ever see a 100 ISO film, it would be awesome to see an E6 range similar to what Kodak and Fuji once offered; for example a warm, neutral and vibrant colour version in ISO 100 and higher speed versions up to ISO 400 say in a neutral colour version.
Some have asked here for iso 800 or higher, but i have never seen any E6 films made any faster than ISO 400, and i would expect such a film would be very grainy.
Of course im probably dreaming here, but something that can replace e100g, e100gx and e100vs would be awesome.
I expect that Ferrania will conduct market research before going down this track, it appears that Dave has indicated we will see higher speed E6 in the future, so thats a start.

Roger Cole · Nov 13, 2014

There used to be faster films. They were rather grainy but could still look good projected. Ferrania has said they want to do an 800 film designed for pushability to 3200. So often I find 100 too limiting, even in nominally "daylight" situations (too much shade for example) that I really want a 400. I can push that to 800-1200, maybe 1600, so that's a great first step. But I know they are planning a 100 first and as long as it's different from the existing choices, that's great too.

DaveTheWalker · Nov 13, 2014

In terms of Super 8 films, I think it'd be nice to see Daylight-balanced films in the speeds of the old Tungsten balanced films, in order that the cheaper cameras can use them properly and meter reliably. In other words, ISO 40 and 160

In the future, I'd also be thrilled to see Double-perf 16mm in magazines for cameras like the Bell & Howell 200EE.... but I know this is pie-in-the-sky wish-list stuff right now!

Just so happy to be able to get ISO 100 E6 in a handful of formats from a "new" supplier. It's really great news for film shooters.

FILM Ferrania · Nov 13, 2014

StoneNYC said:
I would love if FILM Ferrania has a limited edition metal screw in case like this!!! So many times I'm out in the field and wish I had more than 2 to protect from the bright sun, I also shoot IR so this is more important for that film, but still I would love some of those!

Might FILM Ferrania come out with some of these as a promotional items?

We have still not decided what our packaging will be... I know that we love the metal canisters and I'm told that they are very reasonable in cost - but they're certainly not cheaper than foil wrappers in a box. We will most certainly consider making these canisters as an accessory item.

FILM Ferrania · Nov 13, 2014

Nzoomed said:
but its always good to save and shelve any equipment that may be of use to you in the future should the need arise, since once these things are gone, they are gone

Fortunately, our founders have made many industry connections over the past two years and Marco has worked in the business since he was a teenager. We know all about the Kodak equipment for sale as well as at least 10-15 other leads for various pieces of equipment.

Essentially, our thought process is thus: If equipment is available and in danger of being scrapped AND we think we may need it for future operations AND we have the necessary funds to secure it - we are taking steps. However, if another company is interested, or if another company already has such machinery in service and is making products, it goes to the bottom of the list. Again, our focus is to fill gaps - not to immediately compete one-on-one with other struggling members of the analog industry.

That said - if any of you guys here about anything concrete, please let us know.

FILM Ferrania · Nov 13, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Question, besides what you are going to produce at first, what is the second most popular film format that you plan to produce/introduce once you get off the ground with the initial formats?

I think I said before that we will likely make a small batch of 127 100ASA Chrome later in 2015. Beyond that, it's really not possible (or even prudent) to say...

FILM Ferrania · Nov 13, 2014

Ten301 said:
Dave, does Ferrania have the equipment to produce film in the APS format? I realize that the format was never successful, but there are still a lot of APS cameras out there, including my APS SLR's which I would love to use again. Maybe Ferrania would be better positioned and sized to produce it?

The future of the APS converting equipment at the old Ferrania is uncertain at the moment. We will know something more by the end of this year.

StoneNYC · Nov 13, 2014

FILM Ferrania said:
I think I said before that we will likely make a small batch of 127 100ASA Chrome later in 2015. Beyond that, it's really not possible (or even prudent) to say...

Thanks! Yes I saw that, I was thinking beyond that, to which you just answered "too soon to know" which makes sense, thanks *cough* 8x10 *cough*

aRolleiBrujo · Nov 13, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Thanks! Yes I saw that, I was thinking beyond that, to which you just answered "too soon to know" which makes sense, thanks *cough* 8x10 *cough*

:w00t::w00t: +∞

Nzoomed · Nov 14, 2014

FILM Ferrania said:
The future of the APS converting equipment at the old Ferrania is uncertain at the moment. We will know something more by the end of this year.

I hope you can save the equipment if you do still indeed hold it in the facility.
Not that i have an APS camera, but i would like to play around with this format at some point.
I was also looking here and noticed that their early negative films were also rebranded ad Ferraniacolor.
Would be cool to see that retro packaging reintroduced!

BAC1967 · Nov 17, 2014

What type of cutting and perforating equipment does Ferrania have? If the demand for runs of Regular 8mm or 9.5mm comes up can they cut and perforate it? I know there is at least limited demand for almost every film stock imaginable but somehow that message needs to be sent to Ferrania so they can make that decision. Maybe a Kickstarter to get enough commitment for odd stocks. I know there are people like me out there that will stock up if it becomes available.

FILM Ferrania · Nov 17, 2014

BAC1967 said:
What type of cutting and perforating equipment does Ferrania have? If the demand for runs of Regular 8mm or 9.5mm comes up can they cut and perforate it? I know there is at least limited demand for almost every film stock imaginable but somehow that message needs to be sent to Ferrania so they can make that decision. Maybe a Kickstarter to get enough commitment for odd stocks. I know there are people like me out there that will stock up if it becomes available.

We can perforate any type of film from 8mm to 65mm and we have an industrial slitter that can cut 2m-wide jumbos into all widths. We have all this equipment in hand and most of it is already installed in our new building.

The question that remains is whether we will simply produce odd formats in small batches and release them - or figure out a way to "gang" orders together in a pre-sale kind of system. This is a future decision that we will make when we are prepared. It's still a long way off...

StoneNYC · Nov 17, 2014

FILM Ferrania said:
We can perforate any type of film from 8mm to 65mm and we have an industrial slitter that can cut 2m-wide jumbos into all widths. We have all this equipment in hand and most of it is already installed in our new building.

The question that remains is whether we will simply produce odd formats in small batches and release them - or figure out a way to "gang" orders together in a pre-sale kind of system. This is a future decision that we will make when we are prepared. It's still a long way off...

Just FYI Ilford specially designed a 70mm perforator for their ULF special order run, so in the future you may also be able to partner with them to produce color film perforated in not only 65mm but 70mm

Just info, no requests.

ME Super · Nov 17, 2014

Also FYI I believe the annual ULF run that Ilford/Harman does seems to be pretty successful. People here who shoot sizes larger than 8x10 as well as odd film sizes (2"x3", anyone?) look forward to the annual ULF run to get film for their beloved cameras. Not saying that Ferrania has to adopt this model for odd film sizes, but it might be worth them looking into.

Grazie, Ferrania!

cmacd123 · Nov 17, 2014

The other model that I have seen used, perhaps because of Political considerations at a certain large company in Rochester NY was for a small dealer to do final converting on a product before providing it to the end users.

The Example I an thinking of is John Schwind ( http://internationalfilm.weebly.com/ ). He was able to get a Large order of various film stocks perforated as Regular 8 (2R1500) but only on 400ft cores. He arranged to get spools and Cans (apparently originally made by the Russian CIBMA factory) and re spooled the regular 8 stock for end users. He still apparently still has some 7285 which he had to call "Cinechrome 100D" as Kodak would not allow him to use the Kodak name on repacked film.

He also stocks Tri-X reversal in double perf 16mm format (2R) for those with older 16mm cameras who can't use the more common single perf (AKA Super16) film.

Having a designated dealer for certain unusual stocks may be a workable model.

Nzoomed · Nov 17, 2014

FILM Ferrania said:
We can perforate any type of film from 8mm to 65mm and we have an industrial slitter that can cut 2m-wide jumbos into all widths. We have all this equipment in hand and most of it is already installed in our new building.

The question that remains is whether we will simply produce odd formats in small batches and release them - or figure out a way to "gang" orders together in a pre-sale kind of system. This is a future decision that we will make when we are prepared. It's still a long way off...

Well this is a good move on your part, even if you dont make film in such formats right away, the main thing is you have the equipment should the need ever arise. If there is enough demand for a a particular format i expect it should be possible to make a batch at yearly or 6 month intervals etc depending on the demand of a particular product. If you did this on a preorder basis, then you know you will have the sales if the target is met before making any film and taking the risk that it will all sell.

Athiril · Nov 17, 2014

FILM Ferrania said:
We can perforate any type of film from 8mm to 65mm and we have an industrial slitter that can cut 2m-wide jumbos into all widths. We have all this equipment in hand and most of it is already installed in our new building.

The question that remains is whether we will simply produce odd formats in small batches and release them - or figure out a way to "gang" orders together in a pre-sale kind of system. This is a future decision that we will make when we are prepared. It's still a long way off...

So there's a possibility of doing a "small" orders for customers?

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 17, 2014

Athiril said:
So there's a possibility of doing a "small" orders for customers?

APUGChrome???

:w00t:

Ken

MattKing · Nov 17, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
APUGChrome???

:w00t:

Ken

Wouldn't you be worried about it straying off target?:munch:

StoneNYC · Nov 18, 2014

MattKing said:
Wouldn't you be worried about it straying off target?:munch:

What about StoneChrome?

Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania

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