Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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flavio81

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Or you could make permanent cartridges that can be preloaded with 120 film allowing you to change film mid roll. That way there's no waste or additional machinery required by the film manufacturers.

I am going to patent this idea!

LOL

I have already created a prototype of your idea, and I am on the verge of patenting it as well:

 

Wallendo

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There are millions of instamatics and other 126 cameras, but I suspect a large percentage of them are now in landfills. If Ferrania chooses to make 126 film, I might buy and shoot 2 or 3 rolls for nostalgic purposes, but doubt that I would buy more than that. I suspect that would be the plan for many others also.

If APS film were available, I would purchase several rolls every year for my tiny Canon ELPH camera. The magnetic layer could be excluded since the information it stores would be useless to home developers and is ignored by most processors currently processing this film.

I doubt there is really much of a market for either, and Ferrania's efforts would be better focused on unusual roll films such as 127, 620, and 116.
 

railwayman3

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I can't comment on the cost of the new equipment which was needed for APS, but none of those extra requirements to get "certified" seem to be rocket science. I send the occasional APS film (and 35mm) to a small mail order lab in the UK, and the results are technically perfect, with the correct cropping, index prints, and "Kodak" branded disc scans if needed. It can be done......
 

railwayman3

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So your lab sucks. I'm not sure that's an argument against the format.

...but that's not what mattered to you.

That's probably one of the reasons for the death of film labs.

A bit harsh, but I wouldn't like to think that any lab which I used thought of my films as a "piece of shit". Surely better not to accept unusual sizes of film if the lab is not geared up with machinery and competent staff to deal with them properly. Rightly or wrongly APS users had been persuaded that they had bought the right camera and film for their needs.
 

railwayman3

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There's probably a small ongoing market for 127 ("Baby Rollei's", etc.), but 620 is very limited and can already be easily worked round by rewinding 120 onto a 620 spool. I can't see any economic demand at all for 116. Personally, I might buy a few 127 but, like yourself with 126, it would mainly be for nostalgia with my schoolboy Brownie 127 (which still works!).

I think that Ferrania are right in saving the 126 equipment as the best option. Some high quality cameras are still available, as well as hundred of Instamatics for pence (on Ebay?) while the processing and printing need no special extra equipment over 35mm.
 

Brady Eklund

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It's a joke based on the acronym "APS". We have several of each of the machines needed, but they're unreliable and it often requires manual intervention, hence the frustration. Given the low volume of APS we process these days buying more old machines doesn't make much sense as we can still get the job done. We'll even give you your panoramics in APS branded envelopes. Honestly it's really only a problem because of the age of the equipment. It could be a little finicky when the machines were new, but it usually ran smoothly and actually made things a bit easier since we didn't have to sleeve the negs.
 

Agulliver

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The thing about being Kodak Certified was that labs had been certified for years doing 35mm but would lose their certification if they didn't spend (I was told six figures) on the APS equipment and then spend on training to use it for the processing of APS. There wasn't an option of retaining some lower level of Kodak 35mm certification. It was all or nothing. A lot of independent labs, which actually tended to be the best, simply couldn't afford this or were effectively betting the farm on adopting APS in order to keep their certification.

Anyway as for 126...at the moment cameras can be had for pennies on eBay...though that will change somewhat if film does become available. With current generation films, the format would be capable of very good results. I don't think it's entirely fair to compare 60s film with 90s or 2000's film. There's absolutely nothing stopping Kodak from putting Ektar into 126 cartridges, or Fuji doing Superia 200....once Ferrania get their 126 equipment up and running.

Meanwhile, hoping they get their super 8 E6 product going this year.
 

afriman

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I really think people have been overreacting to this. After all, jokes with acronyms are made all the time. I'm sure the staff only use it among themselves and don't tell all their customers that they've brought in "a piece of shit"!
 

Europan

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You have no idea of how customers used to make jokes by acronyms and plain expressions, jokes about the lab I worked at back in the 80s. Worst what I heard was among projectionists, from Philipips over Schepperton (means clashing sound) from Shepperton studios and Verrecktton (means pegged out sound) from Perfectone to things untranslatable from Oxberry. People have always expressed themselves with emphasis and wit to get over the whips and scorns of time.
 

Prest_400

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Mike Johnston commenting APS and relating it to the d* formats with APS and new almost MF sensors, gave this idea.

To "kill" 35mm, offer a cartridge automated 645 format above and an APS below.

Removing backing paper need would improve flatness and get rid of a few problems
 

flavio81

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I really think people have been overreacting to this. After all, jokes with acronyms are made all the time. I'm sure the staff only use it among themselves and don't tell all their customers that they've brought in "a piece of shit"!

+1

APS: Average Point and Shooter
APS: Attempting to Process? Sigh
APS: Average Picture Sharpness
Kodak's APS: Kodak Advanced Profit Scheme
 

flavio81

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Then consider 220 film; i've been writing on this thread, very early, that they should release 220 as well.

220 gives you no backing paper (on shots), and double the shots per roll, while being totally compatible with 120 developing reels/etc.
 

MattKing

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220 gives you no backing paper (on shots), and double the shots per roll, while being totally compatible with 120 developing reels/etc.
There are quite a few 120 stainless steel developing reels out there, and very few of them can handle 220.
Where are they going to get the hundreds of thousands of Euros necessary to commission a machine to attach the leaders and trailers to 220 film (in the necessary commercial quantities and speeds)?
 

flavio81

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AFAIK, Ferrania already has the machine.

IMHO it appears more simple than 120 film, where you must make sure that the backing paper is tightly coupled with a paper, otherwise the roll bulges.

Moreover the backing paper does not need to have printed numbers on it,

AND there is no problem of said numbers imprinting themselves on the emulsion.

I mean, i think that the backing paper, for 220, becomes less critical (no need for special ink or specially treated surfaces), thus, who knows, perhaps in the future 220 could be more feasible than 120... ?
 

MattKing

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AFAIK, Ferrania already has the machine
If so, maybe they can rent time on it to Ilford!
I'm not sure that the "bulge problem" is actually a problem.
And of course there wouldn't be an ink problem with 120, if there weren't a bunch of cameras out there that can't be used with 220 because they use a red window to control film winding.
 

flavio81

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No, the "bulge" isn't a problem. My point was that i don't see 220 finishing being harder than 120.

You are correct in the red window thing, however on the other hand there are many of us out there with cameras that don't need a red window -- most of Mamiya TLR series, Rolleiflexes, Rolleicords, Pentaxes, Bronicas, Rolleis, the swedish stuff, etc...

And most of them can use 220 as well. Double the fun, double the pleasure.
 

flavio81

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Cheaper than a car from his hometown!
Is he from Stuttgart
FIATs are not expensive... They are fairly priced, have efficient engines, and original design.

I'd love to be there. My step-grandfather was born in Torino. And was a mechanical engineer. His cousins were also mechanical engineers, owners of a well-known mechanical manufacturing shop here in the '50s.

Great chocolates and great cars, a great combination.

Although on Germany you have great cars and great beer, a ... well, not so good combination.
 

cmacd123

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(220 machinery)
If so, maybe they can rent time on it to Ilford!

any of the machines that Ferrania has gathered from the old factory, are likely taken into small modules and will need to refurbished, and probably modified to put them back in service.

if you read the posts on P30 carefully, they seem to be having the packing contacted out even for 35mm at this point.

I wonder if 3M would have even made 220?
 

fdonadio

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FIATs are not expensive...

My point is: imagine if you wanted to celebrate by driving a car from his hometown! It would be a little more expensive than a chocolate bar/box!

We have FIATs here in Brazil for a long time and their cheaper cars are very popular. We have jokes for the acronym FIAT, just like the aforementioned APS.
 
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