Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

railwayman3 · Apr 15, 2017

fdonadio said:
I am not familiar with these publications. Your proposition may work with them, but here, in Brazil, magazines treat this kind of "marketing action" as a special kind of advertisement, which costs more than regular ad placement.

I can remember, maybe 10-15 years ago, when "Amateur Photographer" in the UK, from time to time, actually gave away a full 35mm Ilford film as a "cover gift".
Brilliant publicity and goodwill for Ilford, and it sold out that week's edition of the magazine in a day ! IIRC, they sometimes also included a prepaid mailer for processing at the Ilford lab at half-price....great ways to get people to try out the film, the lab., and maybe recruit new readers to the mag., or even to take out a subscription. Everyone wins.

cmacd123 · Apr 15, 2017

anything added to a magazine generally costs the person who does the promotion either time or money. I recall one Ilford promotion where a magazine had a coupon which one could send in and receive a "perfect" negative on Ilford Film. someone had to set up the scene and shoot with a bulk back motorised Nikon Camera of a carefully set up scene (some folks fishing in a small boat as I recall) the film was processed in a motorised processor and some one had to sit down and stick 1 1/2 negatives into specially printed glasene envelopes. AND pay to mail them out.

Great promotion in that I still remember it over 25 years later. BUT I suspect that no mater what the magazine charged to run the promo, Ilford probably spent 5 bucks per person for everyone who requested the sample negative

Chris Livsey · Apr 16, 2017

cmacd123 said:
I recall one Ilford promotion (SNIP) BUT I suspect that no mater what the magazine charged to run the promo, Ilford probably spent 5 bucks per person for everyone who requested the sample negative

Such a shame we don't have the figures to show how many then bought a roll, how many of those then went on to buy more, but I suspect neither did Ilford:
John Wanamaker (1838-1922) is credited with the phrase “Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half”.

Vonder · Apr 18, 2017

Any new news on the slide film?

Vonder · Apr 20, 2017

Wow. The silence is reassuring.

Toffle · Apr 20, 2017

Wolfeye said:
Wow. The silence is reassuring.

Given how intensive Ferrania's to-do list is, and the shortage of hours in a day, I'd be happy to hear from them once or twice a month, and let them concentrate their efforts on getting the job done. No doubt your questions will be answered in due time. (...and sometimes the answer will be 'no'.)

flavio81 · Apr 20, 2017

The amount of negativity here is increasing exponentially and approaching nuclear-bomb levels.

I've sat here reading many pages without any will to answer to the enormous amount of hate and spreading of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) purveyed here.

I really feel sorry for Dave Bias and for Ferrania. They have clearly explained EVERYTHING regarding their production, products, P30, future products, plans, everything. Yet the Internet Hate Machine(tm) keeps working. "The torture never stops".

Brady Eklund · Apr 20, 2017

They did just post an update on the site about scaling up and quality control issues. Apparently they've been shipping orders since April 9th, but they've only been able to ship a limited quantity because they've been seeing some marks or scratches on some of the rolls that requires them to hand check pretty much everything. I thought the point of the Alpha release was to let the rolls out the door with a few issues here and there and let us be the guinea pigs. Anyway, they've apparently fixed the issue and are now scaling production back up. Good to see that they're making progress fixing problems. I think it demonstrates that their approach in starting with P30 was wise, as this is going to give them a chance to work out many of the kinks on a considerably simpler product. Once they do roll out the slide film they'll be in a better position to focus on color-specific problems, with a lot more experience working with their equipment. If they've been sending out orders for a week or so now, it won't be long before some users here get their rolls and post some test results. *nudge* *nudge*

Dead Link Removed

Berri · Apr 20, 2017

flavio81 said:
Yet the Internet Hate Machine

I agree that the hate here is sometimes utterly unnecessary. But you have to agree with me that creating to much hype didn't help them either.

Toffle · Apr 20, 2017

Berri said:
I agree that the hate here is sometimes utterly unnecessary. But you have to agree with me that creating to much hype didn't help them either.

You do realize that kickstarters that don't "create to [sic] much hype" don't get funded, right?

Berri · Apr 20, 2017

Toffle said:
You do realize that kickstarters that don't "create to [sic] much hype" don't get funded, right?

So you say that it is legittimate to lie in order to get money?

Toffle · Apr 20, 2017

Berri said:
So you say that it is legittimate to lie in order to get money?

So you're saying they lied to you?!?! How do you feel about that?

Do you also realize that a lot of what has transpired since the original Kickstarters campaign has been entirely out of their control, and has also been outside of all prediction models at the time of their initial proposal? It's very much like local politics to treat missed deadlines as lies and broken promises. No one, including the whole Ferrania team, is happy with the delays, but let me assure you, you have not been the victim of an elaborate scam for your few dollars.

Berri · Apr 20, 2017

Toffle said:
So you're saying they lied to you?!?! How do you feel about that?

quite all right, they didn't lie to me. I read through the lines, when someone says "I'm going to produce colour reversal film in one year or two" I don't believe that. But If that comes from a person I happen to know and I have a lot of respect for, then I am 100% confident that this will eventually come true, but not in that short time.

Berri · Apr 20, 2017

apart from that. it is not my intention to create a flame. Did anybody recive the P30 yet? I saw on some italian group on facebook that some guys got their film, I'm waiting to see some prints!

Toffle · Apr 20, 2017

Berri said:
apart from that. it is not my intention to create a flame. Did anybody recive the P30 yet? I saw on some italian group on facebook that some guys got their film, I'm waiting to see some prints!

Very well and good; I trust that you are not trying to undermine their efforts. I do caution that the (current) P30 is not a final version of the film, and though some may have excellent results, others are likely to see significant flaws in their negatives. (The most recent examples do look very promising though.)

Berri · Apr 20, 2017

Toffle said:
I trust that you are not trying to undermine their efforts.

you bet! I am happy to see they came this far. I'm not a big B&W shooter so I'll just follow this step from the distance, I will be on the front line shooting chromes though

Berri · Apr 20, 2017

Berri said:
you bet! I am happy to see they came this far. I'm not a big B&W shooter so I'll just follow this step from the distance, I will be on the front line shooting chromes though

you know what, I wouldn't mind if they changed their plans in favour of colour negative film instead...

ericdan · Apr 20, 2017

how is Ferrania's slide film gonna be different from Velvia, Provia or the upcoming Ektachrome?
I am just wondering how it's gonna fit in in terms of saturation, exposure latitude and pushability.

Photo Engineer · Apr 20, 2017

Having used some EK trial coatings, I would be happy to get any image at all.

This is a difficult procedure people. Give the guys at Ferrania a chance.

PE

cmacd123 · Apr 20, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Having used some EK trial coatings, I would be happy to get any image at all. Give the guys at Ferrania a chance.

perhaps not quite rocket science, but then again rocket science does not need to be done in the dark. the Task that they have set for themselves is truly monumental, with such a small crew. {even though most of the crew are very senior former staff of the "big plant") there are so many steps that must be done in order (although apperently the packaging has been contracted out in this case, which leaves out several fussy steps which they don't have sutable machinery to do (the industrial packing machines take up a lot of room and would probably be capable of packing the whole P30 run in an afternoon after a couple of months installing them somewhere.)

I am waiting patiently, (but am checking my online credit card account daily to see if the 5 rolls of P-30 have been charged yet.)

Berri · Apr 21, 2017

ericdan said:
how is Ferrania's slide film gonna be different from Velvia, Provia or the upcoming Ektachrome?

It'll be different, dont worry about that. As long as it is not crap like the rollei CR200 I'll buy it and try it. Ferrania people are former emplyees of the very same plant, so they probably know a lot about film manufacturing, we got to have faith in them that the reversal film will be good and cheap (as good as CT Precisa and same price or lower)

klownshed · Apr 21, 2017

Berri said:
we got to have faith in them that the reversal film will be good and cheap

It'll be hard for Ferrania to make a product that's both good AND cheap, especially at the beginning with relatively low production runs.

Berri · Apr 21, 2017

klownshed said:
It'll be hard for Ferrania to make a product that's both good AND cheap, especially at the beginning with relatively low production runs.

That is my main concern. When this project got started E6 film was jeopardized due to low demand, things have changed since then. That is why maybe they should evolve their original project in something slightly different. I immagine that a colour negative film whould have more appeal today. People who shoot Velvia or Provia for landscapes or quality photography want the best, and people who soot slides for fun already have a good alternative with CT Precisa. Perhaps a negative film similar to fuji reala would be much appreciated if it was cheaper than portra...

Agulliver · Apr 21, 2017

I don't understand the negativity either.

As I've said before, there is a lot of entitlement "I want...I want...where is...WAAAAAAAA" and in some places near complete lack of comprehension of what Ferrania are doing despite their frequent, detailed explanations.

I'd be seriously impressed if 6 or 7 APUG members could do what the guys at Ferrania have...even with PE's guidance - and PE is a legend in these parts. Some people seem to assume the task is quite easy...and others seem to take it personally when things don't run as expected. The talk of lies is totally without justification.

flavio81 · Apr 21, 2017

Berri said:
we got to have faith in them that the reversal film will be good and cheap (as good as CT Precisa and same price or lower)

Current CT Precisa is, as far as i've read, Fuji Provia.

I really love the Ferrania team and philosophy, but I don't think Ferrania could be able to make a product as good in overall image quality (particularly grain fineness) as Provia 100, as if Antani* were still in the Ferrania team.

So they will have to compete with CT Precisa in price. Or bring something different to the table.

* Antani, legendary Ferrania Photo engineer, inventor of the 'supercazzola' silver sensitization method for core-shell emulsions, which kept grain size reasonably small in the ScotchChrome 640T film.

Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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