From my information, Cibachrome was the same.
Reversal products are notorious at EK for being the hardest to coat and having the highest defect rate. Think about this.
From my information, Cibachrome was the same.
PE
Reversal products are notorious at EK for being the hardest to coat and having the highest defect rate.
PE
Lomography color negative 400, 800, 200, and 100; if it says "made in Italy"
These were shot on 3M/Ferrania re-branded as York film, expired May 2007. I believe York is a photo store in the US.
Hi Meyer-Optik Trioplan,(apparently, only two quotes are allowed per entry, but...) Thanks to all for the input on some of the brands that are Ferrania film. I've picked up about a dozen rolls of 200 speed to do a little bit of testing.
Sounds like you're dabbling in the Chronicles of Nanian : jnanian's Fabulously Funky Collection of Unusual and Effective Everyday Materiels and Emulsions...
On display, it's not even close to Cibachrome/Ilfochrome. It's far, far more stable....I get all my film scans printed on Fuji Crystal archive, (RA4) i believe this is the closest thing to cibachrome as far as dye stability goes...
I believe York is a photo store in the US.
Why would that be so? More layers, but once running why more defects?
(I know buy the new Edition of the book?
I had not considered including Ciba/Ilfochrome in the book but maybe I will.
that meant many coating stations or passes through the machine. I believe that they finally solved the slide coating problem and coated it in 3 passes with a 3 slide hopper, but I'm not sure.
Ektachrome film is very touchy due to the nature of the reversal system itself.
PE
On display, it's not even close to Cibachrome/Ilfochrome. It's far, far more stable.
You claim its more stable?!On display, it's not even close to Cibachrome/Ilfochrome. It's far, far more stable.
You claim its more stable?!
OK, interesting, so really they have just found ways to protect or at least slow down the dyes from oxidizing and UV fading, rather than changing the chemical formula of the dyes themselves?While it is true that the Azo dyes in Ciba/Ilfochrome are more stable than the Azomethine dyes in all chromogenic color materials, recent advances in coupler chemistry over the years, and the use of stabilzers in the coating have advanced both Endura and Crystal Archive papers such that they can reach up to 200 years storage with no significant fade. Although Fuji and Kodak differ about each others product, the fact is they were tested under different conditions by each company and when you boil it down, it is pretty much a wash.
How is it done? Well, the big problems with all dyes are UV and oxidation and so the coatings now contain UV absorbers and oxidation prevention chemicals. The former are like the UV filters used on cameras and the latter are similar to vitamin C and vitamin E. You cannot apply these methods to Ciba/Ilfochrome because couplers are in encapsulated droplets and the preservatives can be included. In fact, the solvent making these droplets aid in preservation. The Sulfonic acid based Azo dyes cannot be encapsulated easily.
Anyhow, there it is. Coupling chemistry caught up!
PE
...I get all my film scans printed on Fuji Crystal archive, (RA4) i believe this is the closest thing to cibachrome as far as dye stability goes...
On display, it's not even close to Cibachrome/Ilfochrome. It's far, far more stable.
I was very intentionally explicit when referring to "on display." Perhaps the rest of my construction was more ambiguous. It is RA4 that lasts longer in display, not Cibachrome/Ilfochrome. In dark storage, their life expectancies are reversed.That may be true, but the modern day RA4 jobbing provides superior visual results to Ilfochrome and effortless repeatability with no fear of drift. None of us would go back to using Ilfochrome Classic if it was reintroduced tomorrow...
It is quite true. See page 135 hereYou claim its more stable?!
If this is true, thats amazing!...
Pure, unadulterated fantasy if on display.That was part of its promotion and appeal. Somewhere on the web are statements that an Ilfochrome Classic print, framed and displayed/stored correctly, can last 250 to 300 years.
Whether this is fantasy or fact is hard to tell...
Ron, I know you've taken issue with Wilhelm's methods in the past, but the comparison between Cibachrome/Ilfochrome and Fuji Crystal Archive is made under consistent test conditions. Whether his 'years of display life' figures are completely accurate or not, they do provide a useful relative ranking of the products' light stability.And yet Sal, these results have not been vetted nor approved for publication anywhere but by and at the Wilhelm institute. In addition, the Azo product is frozen in time, but the chromogenic products continue to evolve...
Unfortunately, I've not been able to locate test results under the conditions you describe. Are they publicly available? If so, would you please direct me to the source(s). Absent such alternative data, I've nothing but Wilhelm to rely on. Thanks in advance,...Endura and CA have entirely different properties when tested at 200 fc vs 500 fc. It can be shown that accelerated heat and humidity tests give different results as well due to the diffusion of oxygen into the coatings. The Cibachrome/Ilfochrome tests were not done under a wide variety of conditions, which when averaged out might show a different picture...
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