Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

cmacd123 · Mar 16, 2018

Harry Callahan said:
how long Kodak has been working on bringing back TMX3200. They announced it when they were done with it - that´s a little different from what Ferrania did/had to do.

TMZ (P3200_ was about the Last film Kodak discontinued. SO it is possible that the technology was still fresh enough that it might have only required the decision to produce a batch rather than any reinvention. In the case of Ektachrome, some components were no longer available off the shelf and so some redesign was required.

Back in Italy, the Kickstarter plan was to quickly use materials left over from a previous batch to restart the process quickly. Many things got in the way and so they are likely also having to do some redesign. Unlike Eastman Kodak, Ferrannia is working with a small crew and having to rebuild there equipment into the new smaller factory they are building.

So yes, I will put some P3200 on my supply order in the spring. (even though I have a few rolls likely going bad in my freezer, that I kept in case they was the best approach for a situation. I will try to shoot (and Buy) more of the P30. My Filmo 70 would love some of either the Ferrania or Kodak E6 in 16mm

RattyMouse · Mar 17, 2018

Alessandro Serrao said:
Ferrania sleeps...
Meanwhile Kodak announce something and they make it... https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/announcement-from-kodak-coming-on-friday-23rd.157713/

LOL....Kodak is at least 6 months behind schedule with their reissue of Ektachrome. And now 2 years after announcement there STILL is no new Super 8 camera.

Ferrania has 6 guys....What's Kodak's excuse?

bvy · Mar 19, 2018

LOL. I'd rather have a superior product later than an inferior one now. Sh*t happens. Let them get it right.

bvy · Mar 19, 2018

Alessandro Serrao said:
Ahahaha superior to what?
They simply resurrected an old formulation, the cine version of P30, infact it's rather difficult to develop it right, they still don't have the willing to do proper sensitometric tests nor developing tests (with the excuse of the Alpha thing - the final consumer is also the beta tester - smart!) nor even release techical datas about the product (a thing that also small factories like Adox do), that is priced well above the competition...

Actually I was referring to Ektachrome.

RattyMouse · Mar 19, 2018

Alessandro Serrao said:
ROTFL
Kodak is 6 months behind.
Ferrania is 6 years behind...

Wrong. But do continue to believe so if it makes you feel superior.

Don Harpold · Mar 19, 2018

Hello
Alessandro,
You obviously do not care for Ferrania so why are you cluttering the thread. Getting tired of the negative comments.
I am sure you can find another thread to impart your "wisdom"

peter k. · Mar 19, 2018

MattKing · Mar 19, 2018

I will point out that, unlike most of us, Allessandro's tax dollars are involved in this issue - the Italian government has put a fair amount of money into Ferrania's return.
For that reason, I sort of understand his somewhat more intense frustration and cynicism.

warden · Mar 19, 2018

I received new P3200 today from Kodak. I received P30 several weeks ago from Ferrania. I haven't shot the Kodak yet but the Ferrania is excellent, making good negatives for scanning and wet printing. Kodak will deliver Ektachrome when it meets their standards, which is good enough for me, and until then I'll use Provia which is also excellent.

Ferrania are working their asses off to make a good product, and so is Kodak. My thanks and my money go to them both.

fdonadio · Mar 19, 2018

MattKing said:
I will point out that, unlike most of us, Allessandro's tax dollars are involved in this issue

Yes, I understand his frustration. Believe me, I am Brazilian and this means I know a lot about frustration, government and economy problems...

But his attitude is starting to get long in the tooth and I feel very inclined to put him on my ignore list (which already has three persons).

I am really sure I am not the only one feeling like this.

OrientPoint · Mar 19, 2018

jawarden said:
I received new P3200 today from Kodak. I received P30 several weeks ago from Ferrania. I haven't shot the Kodak yet but the Ferrania is excellent, making good negatives for scanning and wet printing. Kodak will deliver Ektachrome when it meets their standards, which is good enough for me, and until then I'll use Provia which is also excellent.

Ferrania are working their asses off to make a good product, and so is Kodak. My thanks and my money go to them both.

My experience with P30 has similarly been excellent. It's a really nice film. I know people are getting impatient waiting for E-6 from Ferrania, but P30 is a welcome addition to the range of available choices for fresh film. And really, it's not hard at all to develop. I'm not sure why that's being said.

Harry Callahan · Mar 19, 2018

fdonadio said:
Yes, I understand his frustration. Believe me, I am Brazilian and this means I know a lot about frustration, government and economy problems...

But his attitude is starting to get long in the tooth and I feel very inclined to put him on my ignore list (which already has three persons).

I am really sure I am not the only one feeling like this.

I also can understand that one may be dissapointed by how the things went, but Allesandro is comparing apples to oranges. Kodak has a running film buisness, a lot of employees, money and other products which allow cross-financing.
Ferrania tries to revive a factory which has been mothballed for at least a decade with ridiculous few money and staff - and they managed to stay alive throughout elementally problems which is everything else than being "asleep".

And about the tax dollars, it was the local government which did invest into the building. This means Allesandro only can be worried about his dollars if he does live in that specific region - but even then the money invested by the government only went into the building not into Ferranias pockets. If Ferrania does fail no tax money is lost, another enterprise can move into the restored building.

And that´s why Allesandro just seems to be "the new Berri" for me. Not really into the subject, but a bad feeling about it and telling everyone.

twelvetone12 · Mar 20, 2018

MattKing said:
the Italian government has put a fair amount of money into Ferrania's return.

The Regione Liguria invested a mere 1M, which compared on the money that gets wasted in Italy, is a pretty small sum.
For a comparison: in the city I grew up they decided to make a new "innovative" tram system. It was a 10-year long project, that involved redoing many roads in the historic city center, buying super-expensive vehicles, disrupting the traffic literally for years... until (very long story short) the project collapsed, everything sat abandoned and the vehicles were scrapped or sold (I don't remember). The total cost was about 80 million euro. This is how Italy flushes its money down the drain. Ferrania is quite tame in comparison.
Oh and BTW there are talks to redo the whole system for another "innovative" tram system in the city. But I guess financing Ferrania is the *real* problem, right? /s

RattyMouse · Mar 20, 2018

twelvetone12 said:
The Regione Liguria invested a mere 1M, which compared on the money that gets wasted in Italy, is a pretty small sum.
For a comparison: in the city I grew up they decided to make a new "innovative" tram system. It was a 10-year long project, that involved redoing many roads in the historic city center, buying super-expensive vehicles, disrupting the traffic literally for years... until (very long story short) the project collapsed, everything sat abandoned and the vehicles were scrapped or sold (I don't remember). The total cost was about 80 million euro. This is how Italy flushes its money down the drain. Ferrania is quite tame in comparison.
Oh and BTW there are talks to redo the whole system for another "innovative" tram system in the city. But I guess financing Ferrania is the *real* problem, right? /s

Well said. Governments the world over waste prodigious amounts of money. The idea that one gets angry at Ferrania's government cost is ludicrous.

RattyMouse · Mar 20, 2018

Alessandro Serrao said:
Well then do it if you feel to.
I think I'll definetly get over it.
To the Others who seem to not understand what I'm saying I'll tell: as a consumer I don't give a f*** if Ferrania is made of six employees, or ever six hundred for what I'm concerned. As a consumer I want a product that fulfill the following requirements:
1) economic;
2) easy to use (meaning it comes with all infos and tech specs);
3) available.

Ferrania P30 doesn't fulfill any of these three points.
That's it.

Then MOVE on to another film. There's plenty out there. No need for the embarrassingly public temper tantrum.

fdonadio · Mar 20, 2018

Alessandro Serrao said:
Ferrania P30 doesn't fulfill any of these three points.
That's it.

And you think you’re going to get that from Ferrania by calling them out in a public forum... OK, that could work, but it’s been quite some time you’re doing it and all you got was some people angry at you.

I would buy from brand and be done with it.

Harry Callahan · Mar 20, 2018

twelvetone12 said:
The Regione Liguria invested a mere 1M, which compared on the money that gets wasted in Italy, is a pretty small sum.
For a comparison: in the city I grew up they decided to make a new "innovative" tram system. It was a 10-year long project, that involved redoing many roads in the historic city center, buying super-expensive vehicles, disrupting the traffic literally for years... until (very long story short) the project collapsed, everything sat abandoned and the vehicles were scrapped or sold (I don't remember). The total cost was about 80 million euro. This is how Italy flushes its money down the drain. Ferrania is quite tame in comparison.
Oh and BTW there are talks to redo the whole system for another "innovative" tram system in the city. But I guess financing Ferrania is the *real* problem, right? /s

I am with you, so just a reminder:
The money invested by the government only went into the building as it had to be renovated anyway. Ferrania didn´t got a penny of that money and if they should fail no money was lost as the building could be used by another enterprise.
So the "tax-money-argument" doesn´t work on Ferrania at all.

Alessandro Serrao said:
Well then do it if you feel to.
I think I'll definetly get over it.
To the Others who seem to not understand what I'm saying I'll tell: as a consumer I don't give a f*** if Ferrania is made of six employees, or ever six hundred for what I'm concerned. As a consumer I want a product that fulfill the following requirements:
1) economic;
2) easy to use (meaning it comes with all infos and tech specs);
3) available.

Ferrania P30 doesn't fulfill any of these three points.
That's it.

That´s interesting. You don´t give a f*** under what conditions a product is made but expect totally professional standarts.
You must be complaining about 98% of everything you buy - as you don´t give a f but expect highest standarts.
(Btw, you do understand why they call their P30 an ALPHA-product?)

That´s almost as mature as:

Alessandro Serrao said:
No, I will continue to post here as anyone as well...
I'm a long user of Apug before just almost anyone else here and I will not let anyone say what I must do.

peter k. · Mar 21, 2018

Thank you ... Ya hit the nail on the head. Finally after all these years, we have an identity!
I'm a hipster!
"A person who follows the latest trends and fashions, especially those regarded as being outside the cultural mainstream."
Which makes sense as where from that old '60's group. And yes where still in the stage of an Alpha product, testing and trying and loving the results, which we can change with a development change placed in time and energy, and not necessarily all tidied up yet.
Like you, free as the wind blows, to follow your heart.

FILM Ferrania · Mar 21, 2018

Alessandro Serrao said:
You got it right Harry ti presento Sally...
I'll tell you more: I don't have to know under what condition a product is made, except if it's made under illegal conditions.
I work hard to earn money so I expect the highest standards possible. That's right spot on pal.
And, no. I'm not complaining about 98% of what I usually buy.
Yes, they call it an Alpha product because it's for hipsters

I accept and acknowledge that you do not want to purchase or use P30 film, and care nothing for the context of our project.

You have made yourself perfectly clear, and you have been quite consistent in your statements.

After reading a number of responses to your posts - I think I can say "We get it. You don't like P30."

As such, I join with others on this thread in asking you to consider spending your energy tilting at other windmills.

cmacd123 · Mar 21, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
As such, I join with others on this thread in asking you to consider spending your energy tilting at other windmills.

Agree - Lets be positive.

faberryman · Mar 21, 2018

By characterizing his comments as "tilting at windmills" you are disrespecting Alessandro Serrao. As such, he is unlikely to accede to your wish to not express his opinion. It is typical of the hubris of Film Ferrania. And I don't believe constantly playing the victim is a good long-term strategy.

Ces1um · Mar 21, 2018

I think at this point this thread has run it's course. I personally would like to see a moderator close it.

kb3lms · Mar 21, 2018

Yes, close it off. Open up a new thread when Film Ferrania has something to say. Hopefully, that won't be too far off.

railwayman3 · Mar 21, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
I accept and acknowledge that you do not want to purchase or use P30 film, and care nothing for the context of our project.

You have made yourself perfectly clear, and you have been quite consistent in your statements.

After reading a number of responses to your posts - I think I can say "We get it. You don't like P30."

As such, I join with others on this thread in asking you to consider spending your energy tilting at other windmills.

Well said, Ferrania. No one has to spend money on any product, photographic or otherwise, if they don't like it or the business. OTOH, if they have never tried a product, they have no right, and there is no value to anyone in their criticising or reviewing it. I'll be trying P30 in due course.....if I like it and it suits my needs I will buy more, if not, there's (hopefully) others still available.

Harry Callahan · Mar 22, 2018

Alessandro Serrao said:
You got it right Harry ti presento Sally...
I'll tell you more: I don't have to know under what condition a product is made, except if it's made under illegal conditions.
I work hard to earn money so I expect the highest standards possible. That's right spot on pal.
And, no. I'm not complaining about 98% of what I usually buy.
Yes, they call it an Alpha product because it's for hipsters

I see you don´t understand the ALPHA-thingy. Sorry about that.

faberryman said:
By characterizing his comments as "tilting at windmills" you are disrespecting Alessandro Serrao. As such, he is unlikely to accede to your wish to not express his opinion. It is typical of the hubris of Film Ferrania. And I don't believe constantly playing the victim is a good long-term strategy.

I am not sure whether "tilting at windmills" is disrespecting Alessandro, i think Dave is rather trying to point out that the points adressed by Alessandro are things which cannot be changed at once - and complaining about such things is tilting at windmills.
The problem is see with Alessandro is that he does state things like "Ferrania sleeps..." #3790 which isn´t true on the one hand and isn´t really an expressed opinion on the other hand. He had to say something like: "I am of the opinion that Ferrania does sleep..." but he doesn´t. That´s not expressing your opinion but stating facts which aren´t true, because Ferrania doesn´t sleep at all.

You ´have it correct´ by saying "And i don´t belive..." as by that you are showing that you are expressing just your opinion.
And, btw, i don´t think that Ferrania is playing the victim.

On the other hand Alessandro does say himself that he doesn´t give a f about the circumstances and that he does not want to use P30, so why going on about that? This ain´t facebook or whatever where you have to put out something every 5 minutes just to hold all your followers.
......

Apart from that i don´t think its a good idea to close this thread as some visit it rarely only - and if everytime a "Berry" pops up this thread got closed some people would loose connection.

Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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