• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

He did it without Photoshop!

Plato's Philosophy.

A
Plato's Philosophy.

  • 2
  • 1
  • 43
Feet of clay

D
Feet of clay

  • 2
  • 6
  • 63

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
201,864
Messages
2,831,374
Members
100,992
Latest member
bob531
Recent bookmarks
0
OP
OP
Mainecoonmaniac

Mainecoonmaniac

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
6,297
Format
Multi Format
I'd like to hear from PE on the chemical magic in that video.
 

pdeeh

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,770
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
There's nothing "magic" going on, any more than any other photographic process.

It seems to be a case either of simple rehal bleach redevelop or bleach and tone, both of which are often subjects of discussion here.

We need a photographically-literate Japanese speaker to view this -- and we've got a few Japanese residents on the board, so let's hope one trips over this thread :smile:
 

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,953
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
I just watched the video (with sound muted) while my students were writing an exam. My Japanese is fairly decent so I might be able to help if anyone has any questions.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
55,216
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
This technique - bleach and redevelopment - is also useful if you want to demonstrate darkroom procedures outside a darkroom.

The redevelopment works fine in room light, so you can just dim the lights a bit (for mood), insert a previously bleached print into the (re)developer and your audience can marvel as the image magically appears before them.

Add a red filter on the lens, and your resulting film/video duplicates how all those movies/TV shows with darkroom scenes accomplished their "art".

The expertise needed, is the prior evaluation of the print, in order to determine whether it has previously gone through a toning process that would require a different treatment.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,835
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
Better living through chemistry.
 
OP
OP
Mainecoonmaniac

Mainecoonmaniac

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
6,297
Format
Multi Format
Thanks for the offer

I just watched the video (with sound muted) while my students were writing an exam. My Japanese is fairly decent so I might be able to help if anyone has any questions.

I loved it when the women said "She had a good face". The Japanese are so polite.
 
OP
OP
Mainecoonmaniac

Mainecoonmaniac

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
6,297
Format
Multi Format
It's still magic to me :wink:

There's nothing "magic" going on, any more than any other photographic process.

It seems to be a case either of simple rehal bleach redevelop or bleach and tone, both of which are often subjects of discussion here.

We need a photographically-literate Japanese speaker to view this -- and we've got a few Japanese residents on the board, so let's hope one trips over this thread :smile:

Ah. It's the same process as some sepia toning processes. No I wonder how long will the restoration will last?
 

pdeeh

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,770
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
The only thing that I noted as being slightly odd was that he appeared to be mixing up a permanganate bleach, which I thought would only be used in a reversal process (and it appears he's following that with a clearing bath to remove the stain)

However I suppose as "he's the only person in the world doing this" perhaps he has got some sort of magic process going on ... or ... or ... :smile:
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
55,216
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
Ah. It's the same process as some sepia toning processes. No I wonder how long will the restoration will last?

Not necessarily.

You can use standard print developer for the redevelopment stage. In which case you obtain a standard, un-toned image.

One tends to do that when one is aiming to partially bleach an image, but the bleach goes too far. So you re-develop in developer, fix, wash and then start over (hoping to hit just the right amount of bleaching the second time).
 
OP
OP
Mainecoonmaniac

Mainecoonmaniac

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
6,297
Format
Multi Format
I wonder if he's ever ruined a client's photos

Not necessarily.

You can use standard print developer for the redevelopment stage. In which case you obtain a standard, un-toned image.

One tends to do that when one is aiming to partially bleach an image, but the bleach goes too far. So you re-develop in developer, fix, wash and then start over (hoping to hit just the right amount of bleaching the second time).

He looks like an old hand, but I wonder if he's gone too far and ruined someone's picture? There's too much of a pucker factor doing this kind of work for me.
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
in the video it says he has a patent on the process ..
how can someone have a patent on this?

it was a lot of fun to watch though :smile:
 

Gerald C Koch

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
8,131
Location
Southern USA
Format
Multi Format
I enjoyed watching the video. Thanks.

One thing it does prove is that permanganate bleaches DO work.
 

Gerald C Koch

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
8,131
Location
Southern USA
Format
Multi Format
The only thing that I noted as being slightly odd was that he appeared to be mixing up a permanganate bleach, which I thought would only be used in a reversal process (and it appears he's following that with a clearing bath to remove the stai

A permanganate bleach can be used just like most other bleaches. Use of permanganate bleaches has increased due to restrictions on dichromate. Had he been doing this process a few decades ago he might have used a dichromate bleach.
 

Gerald C Koch

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
8,131
Location
Southern USA
Format
Multi Format
I observed the following steps to the process:

1) Prepared solution, hardener?
2) Wash
3) Rehalogenating bleach
4) Wash
5) Clearing bath
6) Wash
7) Exposure
8) Development
9) Wash

Fairly standard bleach and redevelop method. He used a weak solution of potassium permanganate to which he added two drops of acid. The developer appeared to be a paper developer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP
Mainecoonmaniac

Mainecoonmaniac

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
6,297
Format
Multi Format
Gerald. I'm patenting the process. Thanks! :laugh:

I'll be the Richard Prince of the process.
 

pdeeh

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,770
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
A permanganate bleach can be used just like most other bleaches. Use of permanganate bleaches has increased due to restrictions on dichromate. Had he been doing this process a few decades ago he might have used a dichromate bleach.

I've never seen a reference to using a permanganate bleach as a rehal bleach before (which doesn't mean I don't believe they exist, merely that I haven't come across a reference to them here or in older literature),

So to a weak permanganate bleach, he must also be adding a halide?
 

cliveh

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
7,801
Format
35mm RF
Interesting, but the bit I liked was the use of the mini-tray with holes to transfer the print to other solutions without touching it.
 

Europan

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
647
Location
Äsch, Switzerland
Format
Multi Format
The Japanese are masters of thoroughness. Not only does this restorer dissolve finely ground permanganate but he also begins with soaking the paper in a solution of sulfuric acid. The acid is thus in the gelatine before the bleaching agent. Then he sticks to times, one sees him observe and can hear his LPL darkroom clock tick (I have one, too). With the loupe he cannot see any grain structure or toning compounds. He investigates where the last traces of black are, in other words the strength he will need with the process: exposure, development.

Someone wrote as a comment to the video that “experts” often belittle things in the net. I must say that I’d never intend to belittle such craft but for a photographer or for me as laboratory technician there’s no miracle around. If the guy has a patent on this, it can only cover specifications of a process. Chemically he is on common ground.
 

darkosaric

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
4,568
Location
Hamburg, DE
Format
Multi Format
The Japanese are masters of thoroughness.

Japanese are awesome. I can feel the love in this video, and on top of that:
 

Attachments

  • manifesto.jpg
    manifesto.jpg
    195.9 KB · Views: 124

Gerald C Koch

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
8,131
Location
Southern USA
Format
Multi Format
I've never seen a reference to using a permanganate bleach as a rehal bleach before (which doesn't mean I don't believe they exist, merely that I haven't come across a reference to them here or in older literature),

So to a weak permanganate bleach, he must also be adding a halide?

If you oxidize silver in the presence of halide ion you will get a silver halide like AgCl or AgBr. It doesn't matter how the silver is oxidized.

Some informed guesswork here since I don't read Japanese and can't read the bottle labels. Also the video is careful not give away to many specifics. So he could have also added potassium bromide. We see the inventor measure out permanganate and dissolve it in water. He also makes another solution to which he adds two drops of liquid. Permanganate bleach requires that it be acidic so I assume that this is acid. Just before use he mixes the two solutions. Now if he were making the classic bleach the acid would be concentrated sulfuric acid. However if you look carefully at the video the drops are not syrupy as would be the case for conc sulfuric acid. Since a halide must be present it could be hydrochloric acid that he is using. Halide ions and acidity in one.

If you watch the video carefully then there is a lot you can find out.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom