HCB Appreciation

snusmumriken · Tuesday at 4:18 PM

Don_ih said:
@nikos79 - I've read several of the articles posted on Rivellis' website and don't consider it to be on par with rigorous academic writing. I consider it colloquial and anecdotal - reflections based more on personal experience and speculation than on logic and evidence. As such, it's fine. It tells how he thinks of things and how he pursues his own goals. I don't see much that applies universally, though.

The fact is, with a creative practice, very little does apply universally. Values impinge on every aspect of a creative activity - giving it meaning and significance, providing justification - and those values range from highly personal to societally and culturally bound to (what some would consider) laws of nature. Depending on perspective, all of that can be questioned.

I’ve battled my way through the essay that @nikos79 linked to in post #179, which I understand to be the foreword to a book of Rivellis’ own photos. [Is the book really called ‘Colon’? I am a biologist, so unfortunately the anatomical comes to mind before the punctuation mark.🫤]

As an artist statement, the article is monumentally wordy and self-indulgent, which I suppose is ok in a book of his own photos. However (to my reading) Rivellis does not himself suggest that the values he holds dear in his own photography apply universally or even to anyone else.

cliveh · Tuesday at 4:20 PM

If possible, I think a photographer should always print their own images.

Don_ih · Tuesday at 4:31 PM

snusmumriken said:
Rivellis does not himself suggest that the values he holds dear in his own photography apply universally or even to anyone else

I assume his own writing is mostly about his own practice. But he does have a tendency to phrase things in universal terms.

nikos79 · Tuesday at 4:41 PM

snusmumriken said:
I’ve battled my way through the essay that @nikos79 linked to in post #179, which I understand to be the foreword to a book of Rivellis’ own photos. [Is the book really called ‘Colon’? I am a biologist, so unfortunately the anatomical comes to mind before the punctuation mark.🫤]

As an artist statement, the article is monumentally wordy and self-indulgent, which I suppose is ok in a book of his own photos. However (to my reading) Rivellis does not himself suggest that the values he holds dear in his own photography apply universally or even to anyone else.

Yes that a was a very poor translation of his book title in English I have to talk to him about the translation as some of them are not that good.
The title in Greek was "άνω τελεία" which literally means "upper stop/mark." although can also be used as semicolon.
The idea was that the artist makes a small stop to evaluate their work so far but the process of creating is never ending (until their own death).

nikos79 · Tuesday at 4:52 PM

Coming back to HCB, perhaps it has been mentioned in previous posts, but I have to point out his passion about "geometry" about when everything in a chaotic world become somehow orderly and harmonic and this was what in his words intrigued him to photograph.

GregY · Tuesday at 5:01 PM

cliveh said:
If possible, I think a photographer should always print their own images.

I agree...that's my practice....but what should and what is.... are often different. A landscape or portrait photographer... likely..... a photojournalist (as HCB was)....much less likely.

nikos79 · Tuesday at 5:04 PM

Also, the photographer HCB mostly admired was probably André Kertész, he has said among others:
"Whatever we have done, Kertész did first."
"Kertész best photograph is the one that comes next from his camera"
"André Kertész has two qualities rarely found together — an original vision and a sure sense of form"

nikos79 · Tuesday at 5:05 PM

GregY said:
I agree...that's my practice....but what should and what is.... are often different. A landscape or portrait photographer... likely..... a photojournalist (as HCB was)....much less likely.

cliveh said:
If possible, I think a photographer should always print their own images.

It is ironic that I don't know how to print but I do agree

Vaughn · Tuesday at 5:33 PM

nikos79 said:
...The beauty of his prints is largely a function of darkroom skill.

And the images, the beauty of Being There. (a wonderful movie)

What if photography mimics classical music. The chosen Masters slowly and carefully create perfect negatives with extensive printing notes. And people gather for performances in great halls lit by safe lights watching performers/craftsmen/artists publicly print from the master negatives. At the climax, the house light turn on, windows unshuttered, and prints presented to cheers or rotten tomatoes.

GregY · Tuesday at 5:52 PM

nikos79 said:
I also cannot check the validity of the following but according to George Favres, HCB printer, HCB's negatives were routinely bad, result of HCB using an unmetered Leica. The beauty of his prints is largely a function of darkroom skill.

N, there is a difference between a beautiful image....& a beautiful print (darkroom skill).
Tell us what part of darkroom skills accounts for the geometry of this image?

nikos79 · Tuesday at 6:06 PM

GregY said:
N, there is a difference between a beautiful image....& a beautiful print (darkroom skill).
Tell us what part of darkroom skills accounts for the geometry of this image?
View attachment 404207

Perhaps HCB preferred a soft contrast and didn't want any distraction from the essence of the image. Sometimes indeed an overly manipulated print might scream for attention and it draws the attention from the image. Who knows what he really thought, maybe he was just too busy to deal with the darkroom or too rich for it.

Interesting that you chose this image. I like it a lot.

GregY · Tuesday at 6:11 PM

nikos79 said:
Perhaps HCB preferred a soft contrast and didn't want any distraction from the essence of the image. Sometimes indeed an overly manipulated print might scream for attention and it draws the attention from the image. Who knows what he really thought, maybe he was just too busy to deal with the darkroom or too rich for it.

Interesting that you chose this image. I like it a lot.

btw Nikos, I've been to exhibitions of HCB's work where the quality of the prints themselves, was far from outstanding.....

MattKing · Tuesday at 6:12 PM

GregY said:
N, there is a difference between a beautiful image....& a beautiful print (darkroom skill).
Tell us what part of darkroom skills accounts for the geometry of this image?
View attachment 404207

The interplay and inter-connection of the photographer seeing, and the photographer being able to visualize how the final result will present itself.
All of the sense of depth and shape inherent in that two dimensional representation of that three dimensional reality comes from how it is translated into its presentation form. And if you don't have at least an inkling how that works, you probably can't make that photograph.

nikos79 · Tuesday at 6:14 PM

GregY said:
btw Nikos, I've been to exhibitions of HCB's work where the quality of the prints themselves, was far from outstanding.....

Same here! in a last exhibition in Athens. Makes me wonder why.

GregY · Tuesday at 6:23 PM

MattKing said:
The interplay and inter-connection of the photographer seeing, and the photographer being able to visualize how the final result will present itself.
All of the sense of depth and shape inherent in that two dimensional representation of that three dimensional reality comes from how it is translated into its presentation form. And if you don't have at least an inkling how that works, you probably can't make that photograph.

Matt this was what Nikos said: "The beauty of his prints is largely a function of darkroom skill."
Quite a few very good photographers....have few or no darkroom skills (sad really)..... but compose fine images....
As much as i love fine prints..... the composition of the image has no direct correlation to darkroom skills.
We also both agreed we had seen less than stellar prints of HCB's work in exhibitions....yet the images are powerful.....
so i'd rather see a poor print of a great image, than a great print of mediocre image....(you know...subject/object correlation)

Erik L · Tuesday at 6:44 PM

I think he was just daydreaming about his stock portfolio when he took that photo…

nikos79 · Tuesday at 7:08 PM

GregY said:
Matt this was what Nikos said: "The beauty of his prints is largely a function of darkroom skill."

Sorry I didn't say that, this was a reportedly quote from HCB's personal printer, perhaps I didn't write it clearly

nikos79 · Tuesday at 7:09 PM

Erik L said:
I think he was just daydreaming about his stock portfolio when he took that photo…

Don_ih · Tuesday at 8:10 PM

GregY said:
the composition of the image has no direct correlation to darkroom skills

Exactly true.
A great print is a great print - and you can make one of a lousy photo.
And a great photo can be printed badly.

Alan Edward Klein · Tuesday at 9:18 PM

cliveh said:
If possible, I think a photographer should always print their own images.

An architect doesn't build his own designed buildings.

Pieter12 · Tuesday at 9:20 PM

Alan Edward Klein said:
An architect doesn't build his own designed buildings.

But he should supervise the construction.

Maris · Tuesday at 9:32 PM

I would suggest the well spring of Henri Cartier-Bresson's photographic achievements lies not so much in the technical aspects of film and photographic paper but rather in his biography and personality.

Remember HCB was supported by great wealth. He never had to work for a living. He could go anywhere, do anything, be any character he wanted to be without reference or obligation to anything or anybody.
A useful outcome of great wealth is that cameras and lenses are effectively free, film is free, developing and printing is free on demand and without practical limit.

HCB had studied at art school and even did a stint at Andre Lhote's painting academy so he developed a sophisticated and implacable sense of what a well composed picture should look like. But HCB did not have the
plodding patience and discipline that painting demanded so, to the profit and wonder of the world, he took up the newly invented Leica and decided to dazzle us with his photographs.

Look at all the other things that came together to propel the beginning of HCB's career. Leica cameras, fast lenses, 35mm film in cassettes, industrial scale develop and print services, mass circulation magazines with editors begging for
contemporary candid photographs. Only in such a world could HCB go out for the weekend, shoot a hundred rolls of film, inspect the contact sheets on Monday morning, throw the lot away, and go out and shoot more film.

Forgive my possibly controversial opinion but when I look at HCB's personality, the rages, the incandescent tantrums, the towering narcissism, the brutal interpersonal relationships, I see a man well advanced on the autism spectrum.
But these same self devouring passions generated one of the grandest photographic treasures bequeathed to the world by anyone. Great art need not be made by saints. We should deeply admire the art if not the man.

MattKing · Tuesday at 9:49 PM

GregY said:
Matt this was what Nikos said: "The beauty of his prints is largely a function of darkroom skill."
Quite a few very good photographers....have few or no darkroom skills (sad really)..... but compose fine images....
As much as i love fine prints..... the composition of the image has no direct correlation to darkroom skills.
We also both agreed we had seen less than stellar prints of HCB's work in exhibitions....yet the images are powerful.....
so i'd rather see a poor print of a great image, than a great print of mediocre image....(you know...subject/object correlation)

Greg,
I understand that.
But HCB knew what the printers could do for him.
I used do some printing for others - a lot of fairly mundane stuff, but some more demanding stuff.
Whether or not you do your own printing, or work with others who do the printing itself, the people whose work succeeds as a print usually photograph with the intended result in mind.

snusmumriken · 2025-07-30T03:02:58-0400

Maris said:
I would suggest the well spring of Henri Cartier-Bresson's photographic achievements lies not so much in the technical aspects of film and photographic paper but rather in his biography and personality.

Remember HCB was supported by great wealth. He never had to work for a living. He could go anywhere, do anything, be any character he wanted to be without reference or obligation to anything or anybody.
A useful outcome of great wealth is that cameras and lenses are effectively free, film is free, developing and printing is free on demand and without practical limit.

HCB had studied at art school and even did a stint at Andre Lhote's painting academy so he developed a sophisticated and implacable sense of what a well composed picture should look like. But HCB did not have the
plodding patience and discipline that painting demanded so, to the profit and wonder of the world, he took up the newly invented Leica and decided to dazzle us with his photographs.

Look at all the other things that came together to propel the beginning of HCB's career. Leica cameras, fast lenses, 35mm film in cassettes, industrial scale develop and print services, mass circulation magazines with editors begging for
contemporary candid photographs. Only in such a world could HCB go out for the weekend, shoot a hundred rolls of film, inspect the contact sheets on Monday morning, throw the lot away, and go out and shoot more film.

Forgive my possibly controversial opinion but when I look at HCB's personality, the rages, the incandescent tantrums, the towering narcissism, the brutal interpersonal relationships, I see a man well advanced on the autism spectrum.
But these same self devouring passions generated one of the grandest photographic treasures bequeathed to the world by anyone. Great art need not be made by saints. We should deeply admire the art if not the man.

Well said … although I can’t help admiring his quicksilver mind when I watch his interviews. I also think of his efforts to escape from PoW camps, his surprising left-wing sympathies, his disregard for authority, his discomfort with compliments, his love of James Joyce’s novels (challenging enough for native English speakers), etc. I don’t know whether such characteristics really fit with the autism label?

nikos79 · 2025-07-30T03:36:40-0400

Maris said:
Forgive my possibly controversial opinion but when I look at HCB's personality, the rages, the incandescent tantrums, the towering narcissism, the brutal interpersonal relationships, I see a man well advanced on the autism spectrum.
But these same self devouring passions generated one of the grandest photographic treasures bequeathed to the world by anyone. Great art need not be made by saints. We should deeply admire the art if not the man.

You are not the only one with that opinion Rivellis (sorry Koraks for the role of proxy i promise I will limit it from now on but in some topics I find it relevant):

"The only reservation I might have about Cartier-Bresson stems from the feeling that his need to exclude any vulnerable emotional or charming dimension of his personality gives me. Although he said that thought is very dangerous in photography, he did not allow his thoughts (and perhaps his genius) to succumb even for a moment to his instinct and spontaneity. And that was what he secretly admired in his contemporary André Kertész. Many small and seemingly insignificant behaviors lead me to such a thought. His nearly hysterical refusal to allow himself to be photographed. His aversion to attending live music performances, claiming that music should simply be heard. His rigid rule not to "tamper" with the photo during processing (which he always had done in a professional lab according to his instructions). His habit (which had influenced all of us for a period) of leaving four black margins on the photo to prove (during the analog era) that it had not been cropped. His obsession with the fifty lens because it has an angle of view corresponding to the human eye. His legendary disdain for wide-angle lenses. I believe that he harbored a kind of dogmatism-antidogmatism that did not allow his photography to fully exploit his enormous talent. And I say this while continuing to consider him a leading photographer. Toward the end of his life, Cartier-Bresson turned to his old love, drawing. Because, as he said, drawing, in old age, does not require the agonizing anticipation and nervousness that are so essential for photography"

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