HCB Appreciation

[Mike Lopez]

My guess is, Cartier-Bresson didn't make his own prints because he didn't want to spend time in a darkroom. You need to want to be in the darkroom to make good prints. If you'd rather be out wandering around, you end up like Cartier-Bresson - who paid to have all of that done - or Winogrand - who had no money so couldn't pay and ended up with a mountain of undeveloped film and similar mountain of developed but unsorted/unprinted negatives.

It's hard to imagine Winogrand in a darkroom without imagining him knocking things over and spilling chemicals everywhere....

Many years ago I read that Winogrand would intentionally wait about a year after exposing film to do anything with it, because he didn't want his editing to be colored by his memory of the day, his emotional frame of mind when making the exposures, etc. If that is true, he was always going to wind up with a pile of undeveloped film upon his death. But yes, his other personality traits you describe are not at all hard to imagine.

 

[nikos79]

Many years ago I read that Winogrand would intentionally wait about a year after exposing film to do anything with it, because he didn't want his editing to be colored by his memory of the day, his emotional frame of mind when making the exposures, etc. If that is true, he was always going to wind up with a pile of undeveloped film upon his death. But yes, his other personality traits you describe are not at all hard to imagine.

Yes he did that intentionally.
Not the editing but the selection of his good/bad photos.
Brilliant idea taken to an extreme.
When we judge other pictures we usually are emotionally detached.
When we judge our own pictures, this is really hard to do it, especially if we still have them fresh and remember the moment.
By allowing some time to pass we gain that "neutrality".

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Classical is often performed on period instruments. Sometimes scores are found with the composer's notes on them, leading to a different interpretation than what is accustomed. Also, just listening to various recording of the same piece by different orchestras and conductors, on can sense differences in tempo, etc. And to your point, works are often arranged for solo instruments or smaller ensembles than the original performances.

It can be but how well it works depends on a number of things. Since Bach was brought up there have been a few successful (in my opinion) adaptations / rearrangements of some of Bach's work.

So why does Glenn Gould get so much static for his interpretations? I once saw Leonard Bernstein apologize for what the audience was about to hear before introducing Gould to perform Bach. I thought that was pretty tacky and insulting.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I once saw Leonard Bernstein aplogize for what the audience was about to hear before introducing Gould to perform Bach. I thought that was pretty tacky and insulting.

You've got two stories mixed up, and got both wrong.

Bernstein's introduction to his performance of Bach with Gould was made for TV, and is extremely informative:



You are thinking about their performance of Brahms' Piano Concerto no 1, the interpretation of which they strongly disagreed about. You can hear Bernstein's speech here. It's extremely respectful, and far from an apology. He states "I cannot say I'm in entire agreement with Mr Gould's conception. And this raises the interesting question: what am I doing conducting it? I am conducting it because Mr Gould is so valid and serious an artist that I must take seriously anything he conceives in good faith. And his conception is interesting enough so that I feel you should hear it too."

You can hear the full speech here, with the performance following it:

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

You've got two stories mixed up, and got both wrong.

Bernstein's introduction to his performance of Bach with Gould was made for TV, and is extremely informative:



You are thinking about their performance of Brahms' Piano Concerto no 1, the interpretation of which they strongly disagreed about. You can hear Bernstein's speech here. It's extremely respectful, and far from an apology. He states "I cannot say I'm in entire agreement with Mr Gould's conception. And this raises the interesting question: what am I doing conducting it? I am conducting it because Mr Gould is so valid and serious an artist that I must take seriously anything he conceives in good faith. And his conception is interesting enough so that I feel you should hear it too."

You can hear the full speech here, with the performance following it:

Brahms, Bach, who cares? Maestro Bernstein's comment was a public insult given while introducing Gould in front of his orchestra and in front of a large audience. Gould was his guest. Bernstein's body movements said he entirely hated Gould's version. He was apparently afraid he would be condemned for Gould's interpretation. He should have had someone else conduct or not invite him in the first place. Or kept his mouth shut and let the audience draw it's own conclusions.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Maestro Bernstein's comment was a public insult given while introducing Gould in front of his orchestra and in front of a large audience. Gould was his guest. Bernstein's body movements said he entirely hated Gould's version. He was apparently afraid he would be condemned for Gould's interpretation. He should have had someone else conduct or not invite him in the first place. Or kept his mouth shut and let the audience draw it's own conclusions.

Well, I have what Lenny said, and I have what your opinion is, so, no offence, but I'll stick with Lenny.

 

[MattKing]

Brahms, Bach, who cares? Maestro Bernstein's comment was a public insult given while introducing Gould in front of his orchestra and in front of a large audience. Gould was his guest. Bernstein's body movements said he entirely hated Gould's version. He was apparently afraid he would be condemned for Gould's interpretation. He should have had someone else conduct or not invite him in the first place. Or kept his mouth shut and let the audience draw it's own conclusions.

Two gifted artists sharing the same stage, with enough confidence to be able to be transparent about their disagreement, while still willing and able to both value the other's viewpoint, and to share the same stage.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Two gifted artists sharing the same stage, with enough confidence to be able to be transparent about their disagreement, while still willing and able to both value the other's viewpoint, and to share the same stage.

Yep, Lenny was a class act.

Here's the end of his speech:

"But, but this time the discrepancies between our views are so great that I feel I must make this small disclaimer. Then why, to repeat the question, am I conducting it? Why do I not make a minor scandal – get a substitute soloist, or let an assistant conduct it? Because I am fascinated, glad to have the chance for a new look at this much-played work. Because, what's more, there are moments in Mr. Gould's performance that emerge with astonishing freshness and conviction. Thirdly, because we can all learn something from this extraordinary artist, who is a thinking performer, and finally because there is in music what Dimitri Mitropoulos used to call "the sportive element", that factor of curiosity, adventure, experiment, and I can assure you that it has been an adventure this week collaborating with Mr. Gould on this Brahms concerto and it's in this spirit of adventure that we now present it to you."

 

[MattKing]

HCB's best work fits well with that "spirit of adventure" quote.
Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Milpool]

So why does Glenn Gould get so much static for his interpretations? I once saw Leonard Bernstein apologize for what the audience was about to hear before introducing Gould to perform Bach. I thought that was pretty tacky and insulting.

That’s a different thing. I was referring to transcriptions and some kinds of adaptations.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Yep, Lenny was a class act.

Here's the end of his speech:

"But, but this time the discrepancies between our views are so great that I feel I must make this small disclaimer. Then why, to repeat the question, am I conducting it? Why do I not make a minor scandal – get a substitute soloist, or let an assistant conduct it? Because I am fascinated, glad to have the chance for a new look at this much-played work. Because, what's more, there are moments in Mr. Gould's performance that emerge with astonishing freshness and conviction. Thirdly, because we can all learn something from this extraordinary artist, who is a thinking performer, and finally because there is in music what Dimitri Mitropoulos used to call "the sportive element", that factor of curiosity, adventure, experiment, and I can assure you that it has been an adventure this week collaborating with Mr. Gould on this Brahms concerto and it's in this spirit of adventure that we now present it to you."

His apologetic words don't hide his contempt for Gould. It's like a member of one party starts his speech knocking another speaker by declaring, "I've diligently listened to my esteemed colleague from the other party". Esteemed my foot!

 

[Alex Benjamin]

His apologetic words don't hide his contempt for Gould. It's like a member of one party starts his speech knocking another speaker by declaring, "I've diligently listened to my esteemed colleague from the other party". Esteemed my foot!

Here's what Gould said about Bernstein's intervention years later:

"Soloists and conductors disagree all the time. Why should this be hidden from the public, especially if both parties still give their all?"

Alan, you're about the only person in the Universe who hears contempt where there isn't any. Whatever your problem with Lenny is, I can't do anything about it, it belongs to you. I'm moving on.

 

[joho]

the tools used film & silver gelatin papers is by itself is a vehicle of art and expression.
HCB was a painter too -so the use of film is a tool well known to him.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Here's a video review of HCB on YouTube. Photos, philosophy, life. The video author, Joel Ulises, does a great job. It runs 5 1/2 minutes.
HCB:

Check out Ulises channel for other photographers he reviews. All very well done.
Other photographers: https://www.youtube.com/@Joel_Ulises

 

[Harry Callahan]

The video is 9 1/2 minutes, putten together of two videos... but this just for protocol. At 7:12 the narrator says:
"...never altering his photos after capturing them, not even cropping..." which apparently ain`t true regarding cropping, so this video should be taken with a grain of salt.

Aside this, in the video also this picture was shown



which already was show or discussed in another thread about HCB - i think someone was wondering why HCB did this, because he didn`t do a lot of landscape etc. .
This picture only was shown for a few seconds in this video here and i wasn`t watching the video full screen, so i only saw this picture for a few seconds and small - but though, i immediately recognized an animal in these trees.

Now please don`t get me wrong i really, really don`t want to be disrespectful or annoy anybody - and i am not sure whether i should post this at all... but the animal definitely does have legs, it definitely does have ears, it definitely has a big and round nose and it also has a round body -
so my immediate and involuntary association was this:



- and i just had to laugh. It`s so funny to imagine such a big pig standing in a landscape...
... i hope HCB had a sense of humor...

 

[Chuck1]

You are a visionary

 

[Don_ih]

It`s so funny to imagine such a big pig standing in a landscape.

Excellent. That makes the trees behind the front pig a receding line of pigs. A conga line of giant pigs.

 

[koraks]

All this somehow brings associations of Pink Floyd.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

All this somehow brings associations of Pink Floyd.

The Division Bell vs the Decisive Moment, so to speak.

 

[koraks]

Maybe that too, but I was kind of stuck in the earlier days of the Wall and Animals, what with the pigs and all.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The video is 9 1/2 minutes, putten together of two videos... but this just for protocol. At 7:12 the narrator says:
"...never altering his photos after capturing them, not even cropping..." which apparently ain`t true regarding cropping, so this video should be taken with a grain of salt.

Aside this, in the video also this picture was shown

View attachment 404580

which already was show or discussed in another thread about HCB - i think someone was wondering why HCB did this, because he didn`t do a lot of landscape etc. .
This picture only was shown for a few seconds in this video here and i wasn`t watching the video full screen, so i only saw this picture for a few seconds and small - but though, i immediately recognized an animal in these trees.

Now please don`t get me wrong i really, really don`t want to be disrespectful or annoy anybody - and i am not sure whether i should post this at all... but the animal definitely does have legs, it definitely does have ears, it definitely has a big and round nose and it also has a round body -
so my immediate and involuntary association was this:

View attachment 404581

- and i just had to laugh. It`s so funny to imagine such a big pig standing in a landscape...
... i hope HCB had a sense of humor...

Maybe HCB saw the pig too and that's why he shot it. BY the way, leaving aside the "no cropping", what did you think of the review of HCB in general? I thought the video author did a pretty good job showing HCB's work, life history and philosophy.

 

[Vaughn]

Excellent. That makes the trees behind the front pig a receding line of pigs. A conga line of giant pigs.

The horror! A centipig!

 

[cliveh]

The video is 9 1/2 minutes, putten together of two videos... but this just for protocol. At 7:12 the narrator says:
"...never altering his photos after capturing them, not even cropping..." which apparently ain`t true regarding cropping, so this video should be taken with a grain of salt.

Aside this, in the video also this picture was shown

View attachment 404580

which already was show or discussed in another thread about HCB - i think someone was wondering why HCB did this, because he didn`t do a lot of landscape etc. .
This picture only was shown for a few seconds in this video here and i wasn`t watching the video full screen, so i only saw this picture for a few seconds and small - but though, i immediately recognized an animal in these trees.

Now please don`t get me wrong i really, really don`t want to be disrespectful or annoy anybody - and i am not sure whether i should post this at all... but the animal definitely does have legs, it definitely does have ears, it definitely has a big and round nose and it also has a round body -
so my immediate and involuntary association was this:

View attachment 404581

- and i just had to laugh. It`s so funny to imagine such a big pig standing in a landscape...
... i hope HCB had a sense of humor...

The complete composition of the top image is: -

To show a HCB imaged cropped is a disservice to his talent.

 

[Harry Callahan]

You are a visionary

Thank you, i am actually surprised by the positive reactions here...

Excellent. That makes the trees behind the front pig a receding line of pigs. A conga line of giant pigs.

Indeed. I just saw on giant pig, but a row of them was even more funny...

Maybe HCB saw the pig too and that's why he shot it. BY the way, leaving aside the "no cropping", what did you think of the review of HCB in general? I thought the video author did a pretty good job showing HCB's work, life history and philosophy.

I am also wondering whether HCB saw the pig... i mean did he also do "photographic jokes" like this or was he a "serious" photographer because surrealism is "serious" and doesn`t allow for jokes?
As far as i understand surrealism is about seeing shapes, forms and patterns in (ordinary) objects which transform the objects into something else...
...and here i even can see the holes of the pig`s nose...



... both holes. One hole could be a coincidence, but both...
...this aside i cannot judge the review as i don`t know HCB good enough.

The horror! A centipig!

I also had to think about a Hercules movie, where Hercules has to fight one monster after another. Hercules already has fought the one-eyed giant, the giant octopus, Hercules moves on to a landscape - and there`s a giant pig. Hercules got used to fight giant monsters, but this pig here does not react to Hercules. It`s letting Hercules pass - it is standing on the way, but not in the way, so Hercules can take the direct way under the pig - and is puzzled because there is another monster but it isn`t doing anything.

The complete composition of the top image is: -

View attachment 404622

To show a HCB imaged cropped is a disservice to his talent.

To show the pig i needed to get an image of the trees, so i used a search engine. I was aware that the picture i found was cropped, but to show the pig it was sufficient.
But i also found something else while searching for this image: There were several search results, but some pictures were so bright that you couldn`t really see the nose (and the holes) of the pig any more. Another search result was so dark you couldn`t see anything of the pig`s face -
which made me have a question:

My monitor isn`t calibrated and it`s not a high quality monitor - so it was rather coincidence that i could see the pig at all. If the picture in the video had been darker/brighter or my monitor had been, i would have missed the pig.

Therefore i wanted to ask, anybody who "can see the pig" and has the (original, approved by HCB) book - how are the trees in the book printed? Are they too bright or too dark for "seeing the pig" or are they printed "for the pig"?

 

[jeffreyg]

I had never seen HBC's photograph of the line of trees until reading the Forum today. I took this photograph six years ago a short distance from an inn we were staying at near Arles. If anyone sees an animal, let me know.