HCA for paper

[Mats_A]

I seem to have picked up dissenting advice re use of HCA on paper. What is the correct way? Should I use HCA after fixing a paper? What about RC/FB?

r

Mats

 

[Rick A]

I always use it after fixing FB paper, especially if I use a fixer with hardener. I've switched to TF-4 from PF and they say its not required. You shouldn't need it with RC paper, as the coating doesn't allow for absorbtion of fix. Hope that helped you.

 

[RobertV]

PE/RC paper washes out within 2 minutes.
For fiber paper wash 2 minutes, HCA a minute and wash for 15-20 minutes. A quick fix prevents a more difficult wash. Use a neutral fix for fiber papers.

 

[Mats_A]

Ok. Thank you all. So basically it should always be used with FB and can be used with RC.

r

Mats

 

[fotch]

Mats, its not needed for RC papers. Check the Ilford site for processing of both RC and Fiber prints.

Link http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=104

 

[photomem]

I use something that is similar to Hca called Perma-wash. Dirt cheap. 3 ounces of stock makes a gallon of working solution and it is about 15.00 for a 32 oz bottle.

 

[Ian Grant]

I use something that is similar to Hca called Perma-wash. Dirt cheap. 3 ounces of stock makes a gallon of working solution and it is about 15.00 for a 32 oz bottle.

That's expensive when all you really need is a Sodium Sulphite, you can add a few extras if wanted but plain sulphite works perfectly.

Ian

 

[Mats_A]

And just to confuse poor old me, the Ilford paper regarding FB papers does not mention HCA at all.
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200621111117720.pdf

r

Mats

 

[Ian Grant]

Page 3 - Ilford call it Wash aid

Ian

 

[Tim Gray]

The mention it. They call it Washaid. 5 mins of water, 10 of washaid, 5 of water. It's in the section on 'Optimum Permanence'.

 

[fotch]

On page 3 it states that their Ilford Wash Aid can shorten washing times.

 

[Mats_A]

DOH! :rolleyes:

Tnx all

r

Mats

 

[fotch]

We all have our moments.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I use double fix, quick wash, hypo clear 5 minutes, selenium tone , then final wash.

 

[photomem]

That's expensive when all you really need is a Sodium Sulphite, you can add a few extras if wanted but plain sulphite works perfectly.

Ian

It would be nice and cheap, if we had any chemical supply houses in town. Also, all of the pool supply stores never have any MSDS sheets.

 

[dancqu]

Also a Very Dilute

A quick fix prevents a more difficult wash.

I've found VERY dilute one-shot fix to wash out Very
quickly and with a least amount of water. A great way
to use fixer when single tray or rotary processing.
No stop needed as developer build up in the
fixer is avoided. Silver levels in the fix
never exceed 'archival' levels. Dan

 

[CBG]

It would be nice and cheap, if we had any chemical supply houses in town ...

In town would be nice, but ... you don't need one in town for wash aid or sulfite.

In no particular order, these are good suppliers for many basic bw chemicals:
www.artcraftchemicals.com
www.chemistrystore.com
www.techcheminc.com
www.digitaltruth.com/store/cart/Raw-Chemicals-p-1-c-33.html
www.bostick-sullivan.com
www.photoformulary.com

 

[Doremus Scudder]

HCA, Washaid, Permawash, etc. are all similar products. As Ian mentioned, they are basically sodium sulfite. Their effect is to help remove fixer by-products from the paper and emulsion more quickly. Their primary use is for fiber-base paper.

Strangely, however, the recommended times for these products often vary: Kodak recommends 3 minutes for double-weight papers for their HCA while Ilford recommends 10 minutes (after a preliminary wash) for their Washaid. I'm not sure about Permawash.

I'm curious as to the disparity in recommended treatment times. Does it have something to do with the relative strengths of the respective working solutions, or does Ilford feel that Kodak's time is simply too short?

Lately, I've been mixing my own wash aid using one Tablespoon sodium sulfite and a pinch of sodium metabisulfite per liter and using the Ilford time. This works well for me and my workflow, but I'm still curious as to whether this is overkill or not.

Apologies for the small "course change" to the thread (not really a "hijack"), but hopefully it will be of interest to those reading this thread.

Best,

Doremus Scudder
www.DoremusScudder.com

 

[JPD]

I use the formula från "Unblinking eye":

Hypo Clearing Agent

Water (125º F) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 750 ml
Sodium Sulfite . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200 g
Sodium bisulfite*. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 g
Water to make . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 liter
Dilute 1:9 for use.

I give the papers a good wash for a minute or two, and then give them a 3 minute bath in above "HCA", and then a final wash with 20ºC water for 30-45 minutes. Never had any problems with this method.

Strangely, however, the recommended times for these products often vary: Kodak recommends 3 minutes for double-weight papers for their HCA while Ilford recommends 10 minutes (after a preliminary wash) for their Washaid. I'm not sure about Permawash.

I'm curious as to the disparity in recommended treatment times. Does it have something to do with the relative strengths of the respective working solutions, or does Ilford feel that Kodak's time is simply too short?

I'm curious about that too. Maybe Mr. Simon Galley from Ilford can shed some light over this?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I use double fix, quick wash, hypo clear 5 minutes, selenium tone , then final wash.

Bob,

How long is your final wash; a fixed time or dependent on paper type (assuming fibre base)?

Tom

 

[dancqu]

The 10 Minute HCA

I'm curious about that too. Maybe Mr. Simon Galley from
Ilford can shed some light over this?

The 10 minute Ilford HCA: That 10 minute soak derives
from Ilford's suggested 1 minute fix, the first part of
what Ilford at one time promoted as the Archival
Processing Sequence.

Following the quick fix was the 5 - 10 - 5 minute wash -
HCA - wash sequence. In a nut shell the sequence allowed
one to put 40 8x10s through 1 liter of film strength fixer.
That many 8x10s is way beyond Ilford's 'archival' silver
load limits for 1 liter of working strength fixer when
used for FB. So came the 10 minute HCA after
a first 5 minute wash.

At film strength the chemistry's capacity per liter for
silver is 40 8x10s. In effect the 5 - 10 - 5 routine
increases the capacity of the fix while producing
'archival' results. Ilford no longer promotes
the sequence for 'archival' purposes.

The sequence is interesting in that it presents
a question. Just what are the the silver load limits
per liter of fixer? Ilford pegs it at 10 8x10s for
greatest LE. At one time forty was OK if the
quick fix were followed by their Archival
Processing Sequence. Dan