HC110 popularity

[Kilgallb]

Evidence:

Shanghai has 3 stores that sell film full time as their primary product. They are *film* stores, not camera stores. I know the owners very well. They all report robust sales that are increasing year on year. They could be lying but I don't doubt them as their stores are very active and busy.

These stores *cannot* get Kodak HC-110 anymore directly from Kodak. If they can score some gray market, they will sell it. But lately they have not even been able to find any through any channel. I have purchased HC-110 from these stores in the past.

Further, in the past getting Portra film has been *very* sketchy. I havent tried lately so I dont know the current situation. However, if you look at the shelves on the stores, the space devoted to Kodak has shrunk considerably. In my favorite store, FOMA gets far more shelf space than Kodak.

Elsewhere in this photography mall are about 3 dozen if not more stores that sell nothing but used cameras. You name it, you can find it here. Any film camera you want is almost certainly here. Brisk business trading these film cameras. I doubt anyone is getting rich, but damn, it is sure fun to browse there.

Elsewhere, the lab where I get my C41 and E6 film processed says that their sales are going up very well. Turnaround time to get my film back has gone from 3 days when I first started using them up to 7 or 8 days minimum. They apologize but say that the work load simply demands longer times.

This lab also has stopped carrying some Kodak films (they sell film by mail order), due to inability to acquire stock.

Ok I go to Shanghai about 6 times a year. You need to tell me where this camera mall is.

 

[johnnywalker]

I am surprised that so few people understand economics. If there is little demand then it is natural for a supplier to discontinue a product. Nothing arcane going on.

But according to store owner, he wants to order it (hence an implied demand), but no supply.

 

[alanrockwood]

But according to store owner, he wants to order it (hence an implied demand), but no supply.

Exactly!

 

[Gerald C Koch]

But according to store owner, he wants to order it (hence an implied demand), but no supply.

Where have I heard this before? I usually hear this whenever I enquire about a product no longer on the shelves. Store owners will say anything to keep a customer.

Lets see; first Agfa went out of business. Kodak stopped making papers and certain films like Plus-X and 5231. Some second tier film manufacturers went out of business. And on and on. Anyone who doesn't believe that demand for film, paper and chemistry has fallen off dramatically in the past few years is living in an alternate universe where digital cameras do not exist.

 

[alanrockwood]

Where have I heard this before? I usually hear this whenever I enquire about a product no longer on the shelves. Store owners will say anything to keep a customer.

Lets see; first Agfa went out of business. Kodak stopped making papers and certain films like Plus-X and 5231. Some second tier film manufacturers went out of business. And on and on. Anyone who doesn't believe that demand for film, paper and chemistry has fallen off dramatically in the past few years is living in an alternate universe where digital cameras do not exist.

Let's just stipulate that you must know the business of the store in Shanghai better then the proprietor himself (including whether he tried to obtain HC110 to sell to his customers) and leave it at that.

 

[moltogordo]

I think the popularity of Rodinal and HC110 is due to the fact that they are usually diluted from the bottle and used as one shots, and that makes them ultra-convenient. They also last a long, long time in the bottle. They also both work very, very well, and are both very, very versatile. And the higher dilutions that these two developers will work at give longer development times, and this gives a real boost to the confidence of sloppy, lazy twits like me who object to being fanatical about timing things.

It takes a good imagination to see the difference between an HC110 negative and a D76 negative, but mixing up powder is not something I'm fond of, otherwise I'd be using XTol more.

Rodinal is said to have it's own definable quality, but I use it only when I want lots of grain in a half-frame format. Not that it's particularly grainy, but if you agitate constantly with this developer, it does produce more pronouced grain than HC110 or anything else I'm aware of. I have used it at 1:50 with HP5 and FP4, and handled exactly like I use HC110 (at 1:63) for 11 minutes, they look substantially the same - both produce beautiful negatives that print well.

 

[RattyMouse]

I am surprised that so few people understand economics. If there is little demand then it is natural for a supplier to discontinue a product. Nothing arcane going on.

Your assumptions do not match the facts. The stores that I shop with are trying to order HC-110 because there IS demand. Why would they order something that they think that they cannot sell?

This store stocks all kinds of developers because they are one of the primary film supply stores in a city of 24 million people. HC-110 isnt needed in a market like this? Seriously?

 

[John Bragg]

HC-110 is my developer of choice because it does everything I need and keeps well. I use dilution H, so it is also very economical. The results suit me and it is my perfect developer. If it were to be unavailable in the long term I would use Ilford Ilfotec HC as it is a near equivalent, as ID-11 is to D76.

 

[RattyMouse]

Ok I go to Shanghai about 6 times a year. You need to tell me where this camera mall is.

It's at the corner of Luban Lu and Xietu Lu. You can get there using Metro line 4 and walk north a few blocks from exit #4.

Go to the 3rd floor of the main building and you'll find 3 stores selling film and chemicals. The building north of the main building is where you can find a near endless supply of film cameras.

 

[RattyMouse]

Compared to the past there is little demand for photo chemistry and the demand shrinks with each year. China's new generation is obsessed with anything digital and there is little demand for products like HC-110.

Not my experience at all. The film stores are quite busy. Today I went there for some suppliers and as usual, I had to wait my turn in line to get serviced. As I mentioned in another post, there are dozens of film camera stores, all second hand, in this mall. You can buy virtually any film camera you want.

Of course film demand is nothing like the past. That's baked into today's market; there's no going back. But most certainly demand is not sinking anymore. Not in China and not in Ilford's core markets. You will recall that Ilford reports "robust sales". Of course, that's easy when you actually have stock in the stores, unlike Kodak.

I was in the store today and scanning the film racks, Kodak's display has shrunk to the 4th largest display, behind Ilford, Foma, and Rollei. There are TONS of Rollei films in the stores these days. I have no idea what that' all about. Actually, Kodak is behind Fujifilm too if you count the cooler. All that chrome film would put them above Kodak for sure.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Today I went there for some suppliers and as usual, I had to wait my turn in line to get serviced.

LIAR! No one waits in a "line" in China! I lived there 5 years! I KNOW this!

 

[RattyMouse]

LIAR! No one waits in a "line" in China! I lived there 5 years! I KNOW this!

Heh heh heh....what can I say? Film users are special; they wait in line. Actually, it was a couple of European people in front of me today, not local Chinese.

 

[RobC]

Heh heh heh....what can I say? Film users are special; they wait in line. Actually, it was a couple of European people in front of me today, not local Chinese.

RattyMouse, as you're in situ in China can you tell us what the state of play with Kodak is there? They bought up 3 photo companies around 2000 but now seem to be more into flogging digital print equipment in China. Are they actually manufacturing film and chemicals in China. Shouldn't be too hard for you to find out since you're there and have all this insider knowledge.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Your assumptions do not match the facts. The stores that I shop with are trying to order HC-110 because there IS demand. Why would they order something that they think that they cannot sell?

This store stocks all kinds of developers because they are one of the primary film supply stores in a city of 24 million people. HC-110 isnt needed in a market like this? Seriously?

Unfortunately the stores in one city do not effect what a distributer does. He is interested in his bottom line and nothing more. We know nothing of the difficulties he is experiencing. Then too I was speaking globally. To put the shoe on the other foot the market here in the US is essentially non-existent unless one goes online. There once was a dozen stores within driving distance of my home. Now there are none or they have converted exclusively to digital.

 

[Nodda Duma]

Is there a print developer analogue to HC-110 which keeps (relatively) forever and can be used on a one-shot basis, but of course gives pleasing results in typical print developing time of 1-2 minutes?

 

[RobC]

Is there a print developer analogue to HC-110 which keeps (relatively) forever and can be used like HC-110?

Liquid Dektol. Dektol is a brand name and not a formula. The Liquid dektol as far as I'm aware is a rebranded version kodak polymax print developer so Kodak Polymax developer is probably cheaper and just as good.

If its tray / working strength developer life you want, then Ansco 130 is very good but is expensive and not so easy to source chemicals (Glycin) especially in the UK.

However, I don't think your will maxmise modern papers range with Ansco 130 so Polymax is possibly a better option.

Personally I like Ilfords Bromophen. It's cheap to buy but stock doesn't keep too well if you let oxygen get to it, but its cheapness makes up for that.

 

[Nodda Duma]

Thanks RobC... I do actually use PolymaxT and found it lasts a long time...just didn't know what else is out there. I found that if I put the working strength solution back in a bottle and squeeze all the air out, the stuff will last several sessions.

I've used HC110 since my astrophotography days, when I used it specifically for the very high contrast it can give to pull the image out of the sky background.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

For a liquid paper developer, Ethol LPD come is both liquid and powder forms.

 

[JackRosa]

Ansco 130 and Range with modern papers

Liquid Dektol. Dektol is a brand name and not a formula. The Liquid dektol as far as I'm aware is a rebranded version kodak polymax print developer so Kodak Polymax developer is probably cheaper and just as good.

If its tray / working strength developer life you want, then Ansco 130 is very good but is expensive and not so easy to source chemicals (Glycin) especially in the UK.

However, I don't think your will maxmise modern papers range with Ansco 130 so Polymax is possibly a better option.

Personally I like Ilfords Bromophen. It's cheap to buy but stock doesn't keep too well if you let oxygen get to it, but its cheapness makes up for that.

Would you kindly elaborate on your statement (above) that one would not be able to maximize modern paper range with Ansco 130? I use this developer almost exclusively and I am wondering what I am missing. Thanks in advance.

 

[RobC]

Would you kindly elaborate on your statement (above) that one would not be able to maximize modern paper range with Ansco 130? I use this developer almost exclusively and I am wondering what I am missing. Thanks in advance.

The limited testing I did some years ago told me that I could NOT obtain as deep blacks with Ansco 130 as I could with Liquid Dektol. However, that isn't the only criteria worth considering. The blacks with ansco 130 are perfectly acceptable and the print colour and curve shape may be more desireable or better suited to the look you want from any specific negative. When it comes to printing everything is subjective so you may well not be missing anything that you want or need.

 

[RobC]

Apologies, I just had to go back to a very old backup to find my reesults. It seems I could be wrong about the blacks obtainable with Ansco 130. If my tests were with OLD paper then that could be why I did't reach same as I could with current paper/developers. I'm uncertain about age of paper I used for testing so take what I said with a pinch of salt.

 

[MattKing]

Liquid Dektol is/was PolyMax T - just branded differently for different geographic markets. PolyMax T seems to be available again new, so its rumoured demise may have been "exaggerated". And I don't know whether the Liquid Dektol packaging is still being made.

And Kodak is no longer manufacturing any chemicals - everything is being manufactured for them, and sold by Kodak Alaris.

Kodak Alaris did receive some China based physical assets related to colour paper manufacturing in the transfer from the bankruptcy trustee for Eastman Kodak. I don't know whether those might be leases - the Colorado plant was.

 

[RattyMouse]

RattyMouse, as you're in situ in China can you tell us what the state of play with Kodak is there? They bought up 3 photo companies around 2000 but now seem to be more into flogging digital print equipment in China. Are they actually manufacturing film and chemicals in China. Shouldn't be too hard for you to find out since you're there and have all this insider knowledge.

Kodak does not manufacture film or chemicals in China.

 

[MattKing]

Kodak does not manufacture film or chemicals in China.

I have seen some Kodak minilab photo-chemistry with a label indicating manufacture in China, so there appears to be some products being manufactured for Kodak Alaris there, but Kodak itself (neither Eastman Kodak, nor Kodak Alaris, nor any of the former international subsidiaries of Eastman Kodak) does not manufacture the chemicals.

 

[alanrockwood]

Kodak does not manufacture film or chemicals in China.

I bought some Kodak C-41 a few years ago that said Made in China on the label. That was probably about a decade ago, maybe a little more.