HC-110 went wrong

[Ektagraphic]

Hi Guys- I wanted to explor HC-110....I bought some and mixed it up as dilution B. 1:7. I put the 1 part HC-110, the whole bottle, to seven parts water. (This ended up making one gallon) I looked to get the time and many people said that the Kodak published times for Tri-X 400 were too short and most people said 7 min was optimal. I just did a process for 7 min. The negs came out looking overdevelped. My thermometer does not want to work tonight and the developer felt a little warmer than 68 degrees F but I went with it....I will try to print the negs tomorrow. Thanks

Patrick

 

[Jeff L]

I may be reading your post wrong but Dil. B is 1:31.

 

[Ektagraphic]

I have the data sheet from Kodak and it acutually lists two tables. Dilution B is 1:7 in one of them and 1:31 in the other. Maybe the short Kodak time is from the 1:7 and the longer time that most people are reccomending is when you have the 1:31?...Maybe I need to follow the old saying "don't fix what ain't broken"

 

[johnnywalker]

I think you may not have made the stock solution first, which is the bottle of HC-110 + water to make 1/2 gallon. It is the stock solution that is mixed 1+7 for dilution B, not the concentrate. If you mix directly from the concentrate, dilution B is 1+31.

 

[Ektagraphic]

I see....not exactly sure how to procede with what I have...Pretty good screw up....There were some nice shots on the roll too!

 

[johnnywalker]

I'm guessing they will be way overdeveloped and pretty high contrast negatives. Only thing you can do is try them and see what happens.
Maybe bleaching would help, but I've never tried that. I'm sure someone here has though.

 

[stwb]

Hi Ekta,

Looking at the datasheet it seems the 1:7 dilution B is for an "intermediate stock" solution. In other words, it's meant to be diluted even more. Looks like the 1:31 dilution B is what Kodak calls the working dilution. Most of the time when people are quoting their time for TriX in Dilution B they are indeed referring to the 1:31 dilution(that is 1 part of the actual concentrated syrup not the "intermediate stock solution" in 31 parts water). Does that help. TriX at 6.5 minutes in 1:31 seems to be a good for me.

Edit: Oops looks like someone beat me to it. Cheers.

Here's a good page on HC-110
http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

 

[Ektagraphic]

I totally understand now thanks. I guess then that I should say goodbye to this bottle?

 

[stwb]

How about dilute what you have 1:4 to make a 1:28 solution? Close enough, and you can adjust times slightly.

 

[johnnywalker]

I totally understand now thanks. I guess then that I should say goodbye to this bottle?

Not at all. Just add enough water to make dilution B when you need it. Perhaps someone else can chime in with an estimated shelf life of a 1+7 solution. For each 8 ml of your solution (1+7) you need to add 23 ml of water to get a 1+31 solution.

 

[Toffle]

I believe that the 1:7 is used with stock solution. Most people I know mix directly from the full strength syrup, which is where the 1:31 comes in.

[edit]
this is what happens when you pause between composing your reply and hitting send... I see you have lots of answers now.

I will add that it is because of the shelf life that most users stick to the syrup. Stock solution has a fairly short useable shelf life, whereas full-strength syrup is almost legendary on its longevity.

 

[MattKing]

As the j24 datasheet from Kodak indicates:

Exercise caution when following the mixing instructions in
the tables, being certain not to intermingle their data.

So you can feel comforted that you weren't the first to be confused by this .

You have mixed up a dilute stock solution - half as strong as is recommended by Kodak (on the bottle). That is close to one of the two recommended approaches to using HC110. To dilute your custom Ektagraphic stock solution to a working strength solution, just dilute it further.

As an example, to get to dilution B from your special stock, just add one part of your custom stock to three parts water. To get to dilution H, just add one part of your custom stock to seven parts water.

The regular stock solution has decent longevity. Your custom stock may not be too bad. I'd suggest you split it into something like 4 or 8 bottles. In j24, Kodak indicates that each full bottle of normal stock should last 6 months. Half full bottles of normal stock are estimated to last 2 months.

In case you don't have j24, here is the link:

http://wwwtr.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j24/j24.pdf

It may help to know that I often work with a stock solution just like yours (when I have a lot of film developing to do).

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I use HC-110 dilution B and I mix 1 part concentrate to 31 parts water. It's harder to mix small amounts though :-(

 

[Ektagraphic]

Thanks Matt!

 

[dainmcgowan]

i wouldn't bother with an intermediate stock solution.
get a syringe and measure out straight from the syrup.
i use 14ml of sryup for dilution b, and 7ml for dilution h, in my 400ml tank.

 

[perkeleellinen]

I also use a syringe for Dilution H (1:63), I get my amounts from this site:

http://mysite.verizon.net/fowler/photo/hc110.htm

 

[dainmcgowan]

I also use a syringe for Dilution H (1:63), I get my amounts from this site:

http://mysite.verizon.net/fowler/photo/hc110.htm

very useful page.... thanks for sharing!!

 

[MattKing]

I also use a syringe for Dilution H (1:63), I get my amounts from this site:

http://mysite.verizon.net/fowler/photo/hc110.htm

That's a very useful page for calculating the dilution amounts.

I think, however, that the suggestion that 3 ml of concentrate is enough for each roll may be somewhat optimistic.

I prefer to use 6 ml minimum per roll, at least for 120. That is consistent with (most of) Kodak's capacity recommendations. For 35mm film, something smaller may make more sense (due to sprocket holes, and the fact that I often use less than 36 exposures).

 

[imokruok]

i wouldn't bother with an intermediate stock solution.
get a syringe and measure out straight from the syrup.
i use 14ml of sryup for dilution b, and 7ml for dilution h, in my 400ml tank.

Yup, precisely the way to do it. Visit a pharmacy or go online and buy some 20 mL syringes. I make a liter with 31.3 mL of concentrate. More dilutions here:

http://www.warehousephoto.com/Articles/hc110.htm

 

[Uncle Bill]

I mix 1:31 straight from HC110 Concentrate and never had a problem. I recently processed a roll of Tri-x 400 rated 250 ISO for 7 min 30 seconds at 68f and got great negatives.

 

[JonPorter]

Unless you're developing huge amounts of film, converting concentrate to stock solution defeats two of HC-110's attributes -- long shelf life in an easy-to-store bottle. I use a tiny 10 ml beaker that lets me easily pour out precise amounts of developer. I use 5 milliliters of HC-110 concentrate per 8 ounces of water, which is around a 1:50 dilution. That gives me a convenient, but not too long, developing time of around 9 minutes at 68 degrees with the 35mm and 120 film I use.

 

[Ektagraphic]

I certainly will not make it this way again .

 

[2F/2F]

You have mixed a dilution that is twice as strong as dilution A...which itself is twice as strong as dilution B.

There is no way to make this mistake if you actually read the side of the bottle, so I don't get it. The instructions are very specific; more so than any other Kodak developers (which have directions with only simple pictures and temperatures). You need to wake up and read the directions when getting your chemicals ready!

Next will probably come all the posts about how confusing HC-110 mixing is...but it is not. You have concentrate, stock, and working, like any developer. Concentrate is just the same as any powdered developer mix. You mix it with water to make stock. It adds volume, just like powder. Stock is just the same as stock from powdered developer. Working is made by diluting stock, like with any developer. There is a ratio of concentrate to working solution to water when the lettered dilutions are stated (such as 1:15. A and 1:31, B, for instance). There is also a ratio of stock to water when mixing instructions are stated (1:3, A and 1:7, B, for instance).

What you can do is to realize that your custom stock is not only twice as strong as twice as strong as dilution A, but half as strong as the stock should be. (Stock should be 1:3 concentrate to water, A.K.A. 1/4 concentrate. You have a solution that is 1:7 concentrate to water, A.K.A. 1/8 concentrate.) Therefore, if you simply use twice as much of your custom stock it as is recommended for any lettered dilution, to make the same amount of working solution, your working dilution will be fine.

For instance, if you want to make 8 oz. of dilution B, you would normally use 1 oz. of stock, and 7 oz. of water. Now, you will use 2 oz. of your custom stock, and 6 oz. of water.

Your custom stock will last. Keep it in an air-tight container and it will last a very long time.

 

[Christopher Walrath]

I totally understand now thanks. I guess then that I should say goodbye to this bottle?

This bottle is now 1:14, right? 1:7 mixed half and half with water? If so, mix it 1:1 with water again and you have 1:31 (or there abouts). Do not toss it. It's still good. Mein Gott, Patrick! Don't throw it out!!! ;p

In the future, especially if you do not reuse the developer, I would just get a baby formula dropper (garduated of course) and mix the syrup directly with the water for one shot use. A few ounces of water, add the syrup and then top off to your required volume. It's what I do. I did that with the negs of which you just received prints. Takes up less space than keeping gallon jugs around. As to HC110 storage, I just part it out into 4oz amber glass bottles so that the syrup is reachable with the syringe.

 

[MattKing]

This bottle is now 1:14, right? 1:7 mixed half and half with water? If so, mix it 1:1 with water again and you have 1:31 (or there abouts). Do not toss it. It's still good. Mein Gott, Patrick! Don't throw it out!!! ;p

Christopher:

I think his custom stock is still at 1 part concentrate plus 7 parts water.