HC-110 vs. D-76 question

Andrew Kleinfeld · Jul 7, 2011

D76 vs HC110

I used HC110 for years because it was so easy to mix and kept so well. But I got sucked back to D76 because the tonality of the prints looks better. Now I've gone to Xtol, which seems to be like D76 only a little prettier as far as tone goes and a little more vigorous in the shadows. D76 and Xtol have both lasted just fine for me for a full 12 months in Grolsch beer bottles, the 16 ounce kind with spring fastened stoppers that have a red rubber gasket. I fill them to the brim, and use up a bottle each time I develop, no dilution.

hpulley · Jul 7, 2011

I use a syringe supplied with some child medicines. I actually don't see the syringes for sale on their own but I expect they must be somewhere if I look hard enough.

Lee L · Jul 7, 2011

singram said:
Where do you get a syringe to draw off small amounts? Do they have them in the medical aisle at the drug store? Just wondering.

steve

Syringes are sold in drug stores as child medicine dispensers in the US. You can also get them cheaply at farm supply stores where they are sold for use on animals. Tractor Supply Company, 3623 North Vermilion Street in Danville should have them.

Lee

Jim Noel · Jul 7, 2011

laser said:
HC110 does last a long time but it produces negatives that are far grainier than D76.

Tips on D76.

If you choose to mix less than the full amount of powder at a time make sure the powder is homogenous as possible. In dry form the components can separate. Stir the powder before adding to liquid.

Keeping liquid: Oxygen is the enemy. Store in full, tightly sealed, GLASS containers. NO plastic. When mixing minimize the air entrapment. Stir, don't shake and don't use a high speed mixer than has a whirlpool that entraps air.

If your HC 110 negatives exhibit more grain than D-76 you need to re-think your development procedures including temperature maintenance and agitation.

I have mixed D-76, and many other chemicals from powder by the spoonful since the 1940's. Never have I had a problem which could be blamed on separation of components. I know what the public statement by Kodak is, but a friend who is no longer with us was a physicist for Kodak and he assure me there should be no problem with my method unless the chemical had been packaged and hung vertically for several years.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jul 7, 2011

Where to get syringes

singram said:
Where do you get a syringe to draw off small amounts?

I get mine from my vet. I'm sure if you go to any clinic, you can buy some for a song. Good luck with your test with HC-110.

BetterSense · Jul 7, 2011

In Texas they give them to you for free at any pharmacy.

Gerald C Koch · Jul 7, 2011

I use HC-110 diluted 1+49 and use either a 10 ml or 25 ml graduate to measure the concentrate. I use the 25 ml graduate if I am developing more than 2 rolls. The concentrate produces a flat meniscus and is very easy to measure this way. I quickly fill the graduate almost to the required mark and then pour slowly until I reach it. Try not to get any concentrate on the sides of the graduate. Then the graduate is rinsed a couple of times and the rinsings added to the dilution water.

The problem with syringes is getting to the concentrate once it is no longer near the top of the bottle. They do supply a stepped cork with some syringes but it doesn't fit the HC-110 bottle.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jul 7, 2011

The syringes, as mentioned, come often with children prescriptions. We have a few I got from Target pharmacy. Ask a pharmacist, he/she may just toss you one or two.

markrewald · Jul 7, 2011

"I just use it 1+60, 1+90 or even 1+120 (A. Adams used this). It is great for contrast control" what are your development times masimix at those ratios?

snikulin · Aug 22, 2015

D-76 LONG storage:
After preparing 1g stock solution I dispense it into 8oz plastic juice bottles, 8oz per each.
I squeeze each bottle to remove air, cover the bottle with Stretch-Tite and screw back its original cup.
Then all the bottles go to my garage freezer (0F) for long, long storage (years? my record is 12 months so far).
When I need one, I put such frozen and milky white bottle to a sink filled with hot water.
When the bottle thaws you can see small white flakes (metol?).
I drain cooled water from the sink and fill it with hot water again.
The flakes dissolve at about 110 or 120F and you should have a perfectly clear stock solution.
I dilute the solution with another 8oz of distilled water ($0.89/gallon at Target) to get 1:1 solution, cool it down to 68F and get it done.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 23, 2015

Andrew Kleinfeld said:
I used HC110 for years because it was so easy to mix and kept so well. But I got sucked back to D76 because the tonality of the prints looks better. Now I've gone to Xtol, which seems to be like D76 only a little prettier as far as tone goes and a little more vigorous in the shadows. D76 and Xtol have both lasted just fine for me for a full 12 months in Grolsch beer bottles, the 16 ounce kind with spring fastened stoppers that have a red rubber gasket. I fill them to the brim, and use up a bottle each time I develop, no dilution.

Have you ever mistaken them for beer?

RobC · Aug 23, 2015

HC110 tends to give an upswept curve compared to ID11 (same as D76) so gives lower separation in the shadows and higher separation in the highlights. This becomes more pronounced the more you dilute it and you may need to reduce EI to compensate for that if you use dilution H for example.

So it will give a different look to your printed results compared to D76. If you want images with very good highlight separation then HC110 is better than D76 whereas if you particularly want decent shadow separation then D76 would be better than HC110.

But even that will vary with film type a little. So in the end you must try it and see if you like the results.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 23, 2015

BetterSense said:
In Texas they give them to you for free at any pharmacy.

It's best to hide the needle marks on your arms when asking or you may end up with free room and board too

RobC · Aug 23, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
It's best to hide the needle marks on your arms when asking or you may end up with free room and board too

Yes, I remember asking for some syringes in my local chemist and being asked about their intended usage and being treated with a great deal of suspicion.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 23, 2015

snikulin said:
D-76 LONG storage:
After preparing 1g stock solution I dispense it into 8oz plastic juice bottles, 8oz per each.
I squeeze each bottle to remove air, cover the bottle with Stretch-Tite and screw back its original cup.
Then all the bottles go to my garage freezer (0F) for long, long storage (years? my record is 12 months so far).
When I need one, I put such frozen and milky white bottle to a sink filled with hot water.
When the bottle thaws you can see small white flakes (metol?).
I drain cooled water from the sink and fill it with hot water again.
The flakes dissolve at about 110 or 120F and you should have a perfectly clear stock solution.
I dilute the solution with another 8oz of distilled water ($0.89/gallon at Target) to get 1:1 solution, cool it down to 68F and get it done.

When freezing developer solutions ,you risk for some ingredients to come out of solution, which will then not dissolve again;a cool dark place for storage should be sufficient

snikulin · Aug 23, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
some ingredients to come out of solution, which will then not dissolve again

So far in my experience 120F hot bath dissolves everything in D-76 back into clear solution.
There's no residue, everything is clear.

Doc W · Aug 24, 2015

I am a bit of a worry-wart and I am always suspicious of stock solution after a period of time and thus wind up throwing it out. Some of the posts in this thread on D-76 might make me reconsider.

But for the meantime at least, I use HC-110 and always mix from the syrup, using a fine graduate to measure it. When I open a new bottle, I decant it into smaller bottles which get used quite quickly and thus don't have a chance to oxidize.

MattKing · Aug 24, 2015

HC110 doesn't suffer from oxidation, unless it is exposed to water.

So if you keep it away from moisture - including water vapour - it will last an exceptionally long time.

It may be that decanting to several small bottles is just as likely, or even more likely, to add moisture to HC110 than just capping the bottle after each use.

snikulin · Aug 24, 2015

Doc W said:
I am a bit of a worry-wart and I am always suspicious of stock solution after a period of time and thus wind up throwing it out.

AFAIK everything but hydroquinone in D-76 are inorganic compounds that are quite stable "under normal conditions".
Hydroquinone is the only organic compound and will readily oxidize but without O2 present nothing bad happens with it either.
When hydroquinone oxidizes it turns yellow or brown.
Fresh D-76 stock is clear to my eye with a trace of pinkish tint.
If D-76 solution is not yellow or brown you should be OK.

See Kodak D-76 Dead Link Removed.

Gerald C Koch · Aug 24, 2015

snikulin said:
AFAIK everything but hydroquinone in D-76 are inorganic compounds that are quite stable "under normal conditions".
Hydroquinone is the only organic compound and will readily oxidize but without O2 present nothing bad happens with it either.
When hydroquinone oxidizes it turns yellow or brown.
Fresh D-76 stock is clear to my eye with a trace of pinkish tint.
If D-76 solution is not yellow or brown you should be OK.

See Kodak D-76 Dead Link Removed.

Unfortunately hydroquinone increases the pH of a developer when it oxidizes. This is inconvenient for two reasons. (Remember D-76 is poorly buffered.) First this causes an increase in activity with increased grain and contrast. Second this change can occur with no visible change in color. The sulfite present helps prevent a color change. It is only at the end of D-76's useful life when there is an easily seen change in color.

BTW D-76 also contains metol another organic compound.

snikulin · Aug 24, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
...this change can occur with no visible change in color.

I agree with everything about pH, activity and grain but for the above statement I would really like some citation

snikulin · Aug 24, 2015

snikulin said:
I would really like some citation

I found it myself in Darkroom Cookbook 3d edition:

The most widely used developer in the world, Kodak D-76, falls under the category of general-purpose developers. D-76 was formulated in 1927 by J. G. Capstaff of Kodak as a black and white movie film developer. However, not long afterwards better movie-film developing formulas were introduced and D-76 found use as a still-film developer. Eventually, it became the standard by which to judge all other developers. It was not that D-76 was the best developer ever formulated. It was more that a standard was needed and D-76 had the best allaround compromise of sharpness to grain with a full tonal range from black to white.

Not long after Capstaff formulated D-76 it was discovered that the pH of the developer increased with storage. Not a good sign for a standard! A number of solutions were proposed over the next thirty years, but the simplest and most elegant was proposed by Grant Haist, also of Kodak. Haist suggested removing hydroquinone from the formula and increasing the metol to 2.5 grams. The resulting developer, D-76H, is indistinguishable from D-76 without the tendency to change pH. Not only that, but without hydroquinone it is less expensive to make and more environmentally friendly.

Doc W · Aug 24, 2015

MattKing said:
HC110 doesn't suffer from oxidation, unless it is exposed to water.

So if you keep it away from moisture - including water vapour - it will last an exceptionally long time.

It may be that decanting to several small bottles is just as likely, or even more likely, to add moisture to HC110 than just capping the bottle after each use.

Matt, how do you keep it away from moisture, other than simply keeping it in a bottle? I have always assumed (as have many others) that smaller bottles, with very little airspace, are ideal. Is this just more photographic folklore?

Followup question for everyone, perhaps based on more folklore. I inherited several older bottles of HC-110 and the colour is more reddish than yellow. I have heard that this is still good but I have not done any tests. Have any of you used HC-110 when it is in this somewhat reddish condition?

Richard S. (rich815) · Aug 24, 2015

Doc W said:
Followup question for everyone, perhaps based on more folklore. I inherited several older bottles of HC-110 and the colour is more reddish than yellow. I have heard that this is still good but I have not done any tests. Have any of you used HC-110 when it is in this somewhat reddish condition?

Yes, there's been quite a lot of discussion in HC-110 threads here on APUG about this. I've used it after it's become a dark reddish-gold with glutinous strands of red-like veins in the dregs of the bottom with no issues at all.

Doc W · Aug 24, 2015

Another follow-up question. When CAN you tell that HC-110 is past its prime?

HC-110 vs. D-76 question

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