HC-110 Question.

[GKR1]

Tried search but I could not find my answers.

I've been developing in E 1:50 dilution so far and now I would like to try H dilution or perhaps G. On http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ states that I should use at least 6ml for each roll, I've a Patterson 2 reel tank how can I compensate to have at least 6ml of syrup for each roll.

I'm thinking to try H dilution with just 9.4 ml of developer, any issues will I encounter? Will I see significant delta from E to H?

Also, most times I only shoot 1 roll, any issues just using 1 roll in the tank with an empty roll on top and enough developer to cover the film on the bottom. Should I agitate and inversion normally or should I use the rotation dealio with the Patterson.

Thanks

 

[dnk512]

If you use 2 36 frame rolls you will need at least 12ml of syrup (US syrup).

So, if your tank takes only 480ml, you can use dilution A, B, C or D


To use dilution H you will need a bigger tank (about 768ml)


If you use less syrup than 6ml per roll, your negatives will not have enough developer to fully develop. At least that is the claim

Whatever agitation you decide on, just use it consistently for the type of negative you have. More agitation leads to more developed highlights and higher contrast.
​

 

[JBrunner]

If you use less than 6ml the developer may likely exhaust before the developing time is up, as it takes a certain amount of developer (about 6ml in the case of HC110) to develop a roll, no matter the dilution, temperature or time. 9ml is enough to develop 1 roll, not enough for 2. I like a full tank, for consistent agitation,no foaming issues, less air bells, etc. 1:49 and Dilution H seem to give me the best negs (to my taste) Stronger dilutions and faster times have been less consistent and seem grainer (is grainier a word?) to me.

 

[jmcd]

Dilution E is 1:47 (1:50 is close!)

 

[Emil]

I have once used hc-110 at 1:100 in a 300ml one-reel tank. That is only 3ml and the roll was completely developed. This roll had even been badly overexposed. I'm not sure about contrast though. But don't take my word for it and go try this with your wedding photos or something like that!

 

[2F/2F]

Kodak recommends replenishing at a rate of 4 mL of syrup for every roll processed, so it seems to me that 4 mL should be the "real" minimum. I've used about 2 mL with no problems getting completely developed film (1:127 in a 250 mL tank, twice as dilute as dilution H, which is twice as dilute as dilution B, which is twice as dilute as dilution A). IME, you can always half the manufacturer's recommended minimum amount of developer and get fully developed film.

 

[perkeleellinen]

I always use dilution H with 9.38ml of concentrate and 590.62ml water (or so). I've been doing it this way for years and never had any problems. I get my measurements from here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/fowler/photo/hc110.htm

 

[JBrunner]

Kodak recommends replenishing at a rate of 4 mL of syrup for every roll processed, so it seems to me that 4 mL should be the "real" minimum. I've used about 2 mL with no problems getting completely developed film (1:127 in a 250 mL tank, twice as dilute as dilution H, which is twice as dilute as dilution B, which is twice as dilute as dilution A). IME, you can always half the manufacturer's recommended minimum amount of developer and get fully developed film.

You are probably right, most minimums and maximums have a margin by design. Particular emulsions could vary results as well.

 

[GKR1]

Thank you to all. I'll try the dilution H with 9.38ml of concentrate and 590.62ml water for the Patterson 2 reel tank. Not sure how the negatives will look from from E to H. I'm assuming a little more shadow detail and reduced highlights. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[mikebarger]

Let us know how measuring .38 and .62ML come out.

Mike

 

[johnnywalker]

The consensus on a similar thread a year or more ago was a minimum of 2 ml of concentrate per 20 square inches of film. I've been using that for my large format film (4x5) in a jobo 2551 with no problems (dilution H), but now you're all making me nervous, so I'll probably bump it up to 4 ml. I wish kodak would come up with the definitive answer.

 

[Murray Kelly]

Having read Pat Gainer's experiments with HC-110 (there was a url link here which no longer exists) it seems to me that with high dilution one is achieving the desired result of low concentration agent, and the proportion of rejuvenator (ascorbate) will be constant, too. However, the same cannot be said of the pH at which the developer is designed to work. The TEA is likely to shift pH if contaminated at such high dilution and a 'cure' for anyone wanting to test really dilute HC-110 might be to add a ml or so of TEA to the final mix. This would ensure the pH is on target and satisfy the requirements for dilute agent and rejuvenator.
Murray

 

[Alansworld]

How on earth do you guys accurately measure such exact amounts as 9.38 ml? My smallest syringe is 10 ml, graduated to .5 ml, but I would be very wary about assuming any accuracy below about, and I stress the about, .25 ml.

This, frankly, is my biggest worry about moving from Ilford HP5 to Tri-X and HC110, which I dearly want to do.

Alan

 

[perkeleellinen]

I round up so that 9.38ml becomes 9.5.

 

[RobertV]

You can use a 10ml and 2ml syringe (plastic) relatively cheap from the pharmacy. If you really want convenience and real acurracy you can use an Eppendorf pippette which they are also using in chemical labs. But for Wetting agent, Rodinal, HC-110, PMK, Finol (dilutions 1+50 - 1+200, 1+1000 wetting agent) a 10ml cylinder and or syringes 10ml - 2ml will do the job.

 

[mikebarger]

It's a whole lot easier to round up to the next ML and adjust your development time. You're going to test to get the right time for you equipment anyway....right?

Mike

 

[erikg]

Mike is right. It's more important to be consistent within your system, than to be hyper accurate with a preset dilution schedule. With high dilutions there is all the more reason to keep the volume has high has you can, so small variations in mixing will have no chance to have an impact. Don't be cheap, and don't get too hung up on chasing precision, it will all even out.

With HC110 you can just work out times for a set of dilutions that fit the results you want: 1:25; 1:30, 1:50 etc. A whole lot easier to calculate. Although the Massive Dev Chart app makes all this very simple, if you have an ipod touch or iphone.

 

[Alansworld]

Robert, Mike and Erik,

I must try to steal, sorry, borrow, smaller syringes from the hospital where I work.

Thank you Mike for your thoughtful and helpful patronisation, but I'm sure even you would agree that testing starts somewhere, and where better than with the by-the-book figures.

Yes Erik, I have devchart on my Touch and, apart from one strangely misguided calculation it made, resulting in a grossly unuseable neg, I find it very useful. I take a decidedly non-cheap approach, and always use new mixes, once only, regardless of whether they may be used again.

However, my question was simple - how do people measure tiny fractions of a ml. I think I have my answer now. Thanks to all.

 

[CBG]

... how do people measure tiny fractions of a ml ...

Maybe in an analytical lab, they might weigh out minute fractions of liquid, but in my low tech world, I don't. I adjust recipes to whole units.

 

[mikebarger]

I went back and reread your OP, are you sure you were asking how to measure tiny fractions of liquid? I see four questions, but not that one.


Mike

 

[jmcd]

"How on earth do you guys accurately measure such exact amounts as 9.38 ml?"

I make the stock solution that Kodak suggests, diluting the syrup 1:3 with distilled water. This lasts a very long time, pours readily, and is easy to measure. This last go round I made 16 ounces of stock solution, and saved the rest of the syrup for later—just another way to get the job done.

 

[GKR1]

10ml and 590ml seems a lot easier though.

 

[Worker 11811]

However, my question was simple - how do people measure tiny fractions of a ml. I think I have my answer now. Thanks to all.

For measuring small amounts around the house or home workshop, there should be no problem in estimating half of whatever graduations there are on your measuring device.

e.g. If your thermometer has 1ºC. graduations, you should be able to estimate the temperature to within 0.5ºC. Or, if your syringe has 1 ml. graduations, you should be able to estimate a volume to within 0.5 ml.

If you need more precision than that you'll need to get a different measuring device. If you want to accurately measure volumes in the range of 0.1 ml. you're probably going to want to use a pipette and an aspirator bulb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipette

My advice would be to just round to the nearest 0.5 ml. and be done with it.

 

[DWThomas]

I use a 10 mL syringe used for measuring kiddie medicine. It has 0.2 mL graduations. For my normal use, I happily assume that the error from using half way between 6.6 and 6.8 to get 6.65 will be totally swamped out by my other errors -- metering, aperture, shutter, filling/emptying tank, etc. I try to do what I do in a consistent manner, as recommended up-thread, and I'm pleased to report the assumption seems to be working out.

 

[jmcd]

Just for those interested in a stock solution (as opposed to measuring syrup)—if I want to end up with 8 ounces of developing solution, or 16, the Kodak dilution of 1:3 for the stock solution works great (1 part stock plus 7 parts water to make dilution B.)

If I want to end up with metric units, I could make a stock solution diluted 1:4. This stock solution of 5 parts (1part stock, 4 parts water) will divide readily into common metric units like 400ml, or 50 parts.