HC-110 new concentrate

[Terryro]

I finally exhausted my supply of the older thick HC-110 syrup. I was decanting a new bottle of the improved solution into small bottles for storage. Noticed a good amount of clear crystals in the box of the concentrate bottle. Did I get a bad batch or is this common?

 

[cjbecker]

My new bottle also has those crystals in the bottom, threw my research on the forum, its normal and nothing too worry about……i still dont like it tho

 

[NB23]

Long ago I read a chemist’s take on the crystals (rodinal).

The conclusion was

1: Normal. Just ignore it.

2: Do not try to dissolve or shake back into the solution, a thing that would be very hard to achieve anyhow.

The impurities, the crystal itself, might harm the solution. The formed crystal is actually a good thing if it stays a crystal.

 

[MattKing]

Is it the new, new current HC-110 manufactured in China, or the earlier, ~2019 recipe HC-110 manufactured in the USA, or the earlier HC-110 manufactured in Germany, or something even earlier?

 

[john_s]

I would wonder about crystals. It indicates that something that was put in there for a reason is no longer there, possibly altering the chemistry to some degree.

 

[cirwin2010]

I haven't had experience with the old HC-110, but I've used two bottles of the new formula. Crystals have formed in both bottles shortly after being opened. I vaguely remember seeing a statement by Kodak saying they have made an update to help prevent the formation of crystals. However, my second bottle, which was manufactured recently, still got crystals.

The new formulas still develops just fine even when full of crystals and turning a dark brown. I would think the crystals at the bottom may pose a slight issue for getting the last of the solution out of the bottle, but I threw out my first bottle before that point (was really nasty).

 

[koraks]

a chemist’s take on the crystals (rodinal).

Then again, rodinal has nothing in common with HC110 other than both being concentrated film developers.

 

[Terryro]

Thanks all for the info. FYI. I did process a roll of film with the developer and all was fine. I decanted the large bottle into 12 smaller glass bottles and ignored the crystals in the original container.

 

[MattKing]

You haven't answered my question about where the HC-1110 was manufactured. That will help determine which version you have. It sounds like the intermediate version, made for a relatively short time in the USA.

 

[Steven Lee]

@MattKing can you offer advice for all 3 versions of the "new" HC-110 anyway? When I was shopping for one I googled my ass off. Found numerous threads here and I do not recall any kind of consensus. My recollection is: everyone is eager to share their thoughts, but not too many are actually making photos, developing/measuring/comparing. As far as know, there is not a single person on the internet who developed the same scene in different types of HC110 and compared them. Nobody cared to compare HC-110 and Ilfotec HC either. Lots of talkers. Not enough doers.

Did you personally, or someone else here, developed the same film in all variants of HC-110? If so, which one is the best?

 

[MattKing]

@MattKing can you offer advice for all 3 versions of the "new" HC-110 anyway? When I was shopping for one I googled my ass off. Found numerous threads here and I do not recall any kind of consensus. Which one is the best?

When your HC-110 is relatively new, they are probably about the same as far as "best" is concerned.
If you intend to use a bottle over a long period of time - longer than the manufacturer recommends - the old "Made In Germany" version is known to last a very long time. If you should come across the really old versions that were made before the transition to manufacturing in Germany, it should be good as well, if the container is still intact.
The 2019 and later USA manufactured version is unlikely to offer the same longevity.
The current made in China version appears to use the same formula as the "Made in Germany" version, if the product number and MSDS for it is accurate, but I don't know if that version has made it to North American and European destinations yet. If it is effectively the same as the "Made in Germany" version, it would be reasonable to assume extended longevity.
It is always important though to remember that the integrity of the packaging may be more important than the nature of the contents when it comes to questions about extended longevity.
Assuming we actually see the latest HC-110 in our markets, we probably won't be able to say anything reliable about extended longevity until it has been around for several years.
It is important to remember that HC-110's legendary longevity is mostly an accident - it has never been something that was guaranteed or even offered as a feature by the manufacturer.

 

[NB23]

Then again, rodinal has nothing in common with HC110 other than both being concentrated film developers.

from what I remember his explanation was fascinating. Besides, who knows what is this new hc110 as it doesn’t look at all like old hc110...

 

[Terryro]

Thanks for the great info on HC-110. A little history on my 2 versions. The older syrup had an exp date of 8/16. Was in small bottles the entire time, I went back to using the old syrup as I was out of my other film developer. The older syrup was kept as backup and for my 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film. Couple days ago I shot some outdated 120 film ex2004 (T-Max 100) but frozen. I developed it in the older solution and the negs came out pretty thin even with 20% increase in time. Next I tried the newer version of HC-110 (bottle said made in USA) that had the crystals in the bottom of the container. Same outdated film shot at box speed and kodak processing times. Came out great. I guess there could be a limit to older syrup storage. This is a first as I've never had the older version around this long. Time will tell on the storage of the newer version. I'll read the "Negative" it's here somewhere for sure. Stay safe all.

 

[Steven Lee]

@MattKing Interesting... Thanks! I did not know about Sino possibly going back to the original formula. Other than "Made in X" labels on the bottles, is there another way to tell them apart?

 

[MattKing]

@MattKing Interesting... Thanks! I did not know about Sino possibly going back to the original formula. Other than "Made in X" labels on the bottles, is there another way to tell them apart?

The Catalogue number has gone to a new number, 660 777, not the old, pre-2019 Catalogue number, and not to the post 2019 USA manufactured Catalogue number - I think my earlier post here was wrong about Catalogue numbers.
The bottle is different as well.
This thread, which deals with product that had shown up in Taiwan, has pictures and details: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...ottle-2022-sino-promise-made-in-china.192670/

 

[Fredrixxon]

I dried up a bottle of hc-110 syrup by Kodak Alaris, bought in 2020.
The new one I got today is by Sinopromise, and the major change on sticker is company name. It still satates "made in Germany for ...". Even barcode stays the same.

 

[redbandit]

I have a greats solution to the issue of HC-110. Good stuff when it works i here, but I think that even the Rodinal Stuff sold by Adox is still going ot be good in 30 years. Just like how ive read people have used 1950s production Agfa Rodinal in 2020 and had n oissue iwth it.

 

[abruzzi]

I don't know Adox's formula, but a bottle of R09 (Rollei rodinal clone) lost all activity on me after about 3 years. So not all Rodinal lasts forever.

 

[redbandit]

I don't know Adox's formula, but a bottle of R09 (Rollei rodinal clone) lost all activity on me after about 3 years. So not all Rodinal lasts forever.

dont use the imposter stuff

 

[koraks]

dont use the imposter stuff

With the demise of Agfa's developer production many moons ago, everything is 'imposter stuff' these days

 

[Nodda Duma]

@MattKing can you offer advice for all 3 versions of the "new" HC-110 anyway? When I was shopping for one I googled my ass off. Found numerous threads here and I do not recall any kind of consensus. My recollection is: everyone is eager to share their thoughts, but not too many are actually making photos, developing/measuring/comparing. As far as know, there is not a single person on the internet who developed the same scene in different types of HC110 and compared them. Nobody cared to compare HC-110 and Ilfotec HC either. Lots of talkers. Not enough doers.

Did you personally, or someone else here, developed the same film in all variants of HC-110? If so, which one is the best?

My dry plate manufacturing relies on HC-110 dil B as the standard developer for generating characteristic curve of test exposures for each emulsion batch to ensure batch-to-batch consistency. I’ve thus developed hundreds of contact exposures of calibrated Stouffer Wedges since 2017, using both new and old.

I also tend to stretch working batches of HC-110 dil B as long as I can, often discarding the mixed developer when its lost half its volume just from carry over of developer retained in the emulsion layer.

What I learned from doing exactly what you state no one has done is:

1). The old syrup version retains consistent developing (measured via densitometer) for at least 4 months as a working solution stored in amber glass Boston round jars. Contrast appears to slightly increase as it ages, but I never tested that directly.

2). The newer post-2019 variant lasts no longer than ~6 weeks mixed dil B and stored per above. When exhausted it loses its ability to develop, resulting in significantly thinner lower contrast plates. The effect is not gradual in use.

3). Aside from these limitations, I could measure no discernible difference between old syrup and newer when they were fresh. I have not tested the even newer “Made in China” variant.

I have no desire or need to use the Ilford version, so have never used it.

My darkroom and dry plate production is currently packed up after moving out of NH, but I hope to be back up and running sometime in 2023.

 

[Steven Lee]

@Nodda Duma thank you for sharing!