having tripets

JPD · Mar 23, 2020

NB23 said:
Ikoflex with novar lenses.

Novar T = coated
Novar without T designstion = uncoated.

I’m really impressed by my Ikoflex novar T.

"T" is the designation for coating used by Carl Zeiss, and they only used it for a couple of years (until around 1952-53) when coatings were new (but multicoated lenses later had the T* marking). Many Ikoflexes have coated lenses without the "T". The Novar lenses weren't made by Carl Zeiss but were bought in by Zeiss Ikon from various manufacturers. I haven't seen a T-marked Novar. Maybe Zeiss Ikon had a batch of pre-war Novars coated at Carl Zeiss after the war?

macfred · Mar 23, 2020

JPD said:
The information on the Rolleiclub site has caused some confusion. The official names for the Rolleicords are I, Ia, II, III, IV, V, Va and Vb. Some of the models were improved during the production run, so these variations have been given extra designations to differientiate between them. I think it's better to say "Rolleicord II, type/model 4" than "IIc" so it doesn't seem like a name given by Franke & Heidecke. The collector that came up with the "c" must have forgotten one of the types in-between, which adds to the confusion.

The Rolleicord II, type 4, was my first Rolleicord. It's still in mint condition despite having been made in 1939. I have owned it for 30 years and it still works perfectly.

Thank you again - remarkable photograph !

AgX · Mar 24, 2020

"What are the unique rendering characteristics of a 3-element lens?"

AgX said:
I first think of the Trioplan bokeh. There also seems a typical center/corner sharpness gradient.

But maybe there are more variations between Cooke triplets designs than I thought.

Anyone to comment?

Helge · Mar 24, 2020

The various Ricohflex models are much the same and wonderful performers.
Front cell focusing sure, but I’ve never been a huge sceptic of that technique.
I have a real hard time seeing the difference.
They are wonderfully light, simple and inexpensive.
And most importantly, the lens is wonderful. Resonably sharp, full of character and saturated colours.

AgX · Mar 25, 2020

Helge said:
Front cell focusing sure,..

We have not yet taken the different focusing techniques (barrel vs. front-element) into account.

Helge · Mar 25, 2020

These are examples of what a Ricohflex (Model T) can do.

Please follow the links, since this forum does horrible things to the already paltry resolution of Instagram images.

They are as sharp and and high resolution as they look.
Scanned on a Flextight.

Helge · Mar 25, 2020

A very quick and crude super imposing of the two graphs from this paper comparing the Tessar and Cooke triplet: https://www.willbell.com/tm/ChapterB.3.pdf
It's very important to note that this is lenses for 36x24mm.
For medium format things are going to look different/more skewed toward equality.
But this still gives some idea of the fundamentals of the differences between the two lens designs.

First is @ f3.5

Second is f8

Edit: I managed to screw up the order of the blends, So on the first the white is the Tessar, and on the second it's the black that is the Tessar.

AgX · Mar 25, 2020

Helge said:
It's very important to note that this is lenses for 135/35mm.

The graphs indicate 52mm FL in both cases.

Helge · Mar 25, 2020

AgX said:
The graphs indicate 52mm FL in both cases.

Hence 135 (36x24mm). 52 would be wide to very wide for larger formats.

Dan Fromm · Mar 25, 2020

Helge said:
Hence 135 (36x24mm). 52 would be wide to very wide for larger formats.

There were very few wide angle triplets and tessar types, none as fast as f/4.5. The lenses described won't cover more than 24x36.

Helge · Mar 25, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
There were very few wide angle triplets and tessar types, none as fast as f/4.5. The lenses described won't cover more than 24x36.

Exactly.

Helge · Mar 26, 2020

One thing that is important to note is that triplets from before and after the war are quite different.
Coating makes flaring and ghosting much less of an issue.
Lanthanum mid elements also makes corrections easier and stronger.

AgX · Mar 27, 2020

laser said:
What are the unique rendering characteristics of a 3-element lens?

Here an interesting test compairing a Cooke-, a Tessar- and a Xenotar-type lens (though at APS-C format !!!):
http://allphotolenses.com/reviews/item/c_11.html

(At far objects the Cooke sample beats at center the Tessar sample wide open, and whereas at the lab the Cooke sample shows more bubble bokeh, in the field the Tessar sample has an identical bokeh.)

Dan Fromm · Mar 27, 2020

Irrelevant. The triplet and tessar are very fast, for their design types not representative of the slower triplets and tessars most of us use.

As for the 55/3.5 pre-AI MicroNikkor, I once asked Norman Rothschild why Popular Photography magazine, for which he wrote and tested lenses, never published a test of any 55/3.5 MicroNikkor. He explained that at some apertures the lenses failed to meet PP's minimum standard at distance. The magazine had a policy of not publishing poor test results to avoid the risk of driving advertisers away.

Ian Grant · Mar 27, 2020

NB23 said:
Ikoflex with novar lenses.

Novar T = coated
Novar without T designstion = uncoated.

I’m really impressed by my Ikoflex novar T.

I have 4 coated Novar's and not one is marked Novar T, just Novar Anastigmat and they are very definitely coated and on Zeiss cameras, except a spare that I plan to fit on a pre-WWII Ikonta as its lens is useless -very low contrast.

Ian.

NB23 · Mar 27, 2020

Ian Grant said:
I have 4 coated Novar's and not one is marked Novar T, just Novar Anastigmat and they are very definitely coated and on Zeiss cameras, except a spare that I plan to fit on a pre-WWII Ikonta as its lens is useless -very low contrast.

Ian.

yes you’re totally right! I, too, own a non-T novar which is coated.
At some point the T designation came up, and then T* (T-star).

it is quite easy to spot a non-coated lens, it reminds me of those old coca-cola bottles, with which i was playing as a kid, thick glass and very hard to see through once you stuck you eye in it...

AgX · Mar 27, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
Irrelevant.

That likely can be said for any test of only one model per group, even at same speed.

Yes, I never came across that model Industar but only the F3.5 model. But a SLR F2.8 Cooke-type and a F2.8 Tessar-type otherwise is standard over here.

Dan Fromm · Mar 27, 2020

AgX said:
Yes, I never came across that model Industar but only the F3.5 model. But a SLR F2.8 Cooke-type and a F2.8 Tessar-type otherwise is standard over here.

Interesting. I didn't know that you now live in the DDR in the 1970s. The Japanese standard normal lens for 35 mm SLRs has been 50 (later) - 58 (earliest fast ones) mm f/1.7-2.0 (inexpensive) or f/1.4 6/4 double Gauss, not a triplet or tessar. And f/2.8 is very fast for triplets and tessars.

More to the point, we're in a discussion of MF TLRs, not 35 mm SLRs. Practically speaking this means 6x6 TLRs. Some of these have f/2.8 5/4 double Gauss type normal lenses. Also f/3.5 double Gauss. I'm not aware of any fitted with triplets or tessars faster than f/3.5. However, as we both know, I don't know everything.

AgX · Mar 27, 2020

I do not live in the GDR of the 70s, but the majority of SLR Tessar-type and Cooke-type lenses I today come across locally in the West of Germany are F 2.8 ones.

Sorry, I somehow (likely by the Ricohflex) got astray to 35mm SLRs.

Neil Grant · Mar 27, 2020

More to the point, we're in a discussion of MF TLRs, not 35 mm SLRs. Practically speaking this means 6x6 TLRs. Some of these have f/2.8 5/4 double Gauss type normal lenses. Also f/3.5 double Gauss. I'm not aware of any fitted with triplets or tessars faster than f/3.5. However, as we both know, I don't know everything.[/QUOTE]

...found reference to 'Montanus Rocca super reflex' on cjs classic cameras (in think). 80mm f/2.9 triplet lenses by Rodenstock. Very rare. Really need some brave company to make a 80mm triplet for the Mamiya C series TLR.

Ian Grant · Mar 27, 2020

Neil Grant said:
Really need some brave company to make a 80mm triplet for the Mamiya C series TLR.

Nothing to stop you getting a pair of Novar Triplets (or similar) and mounting them on a panel from a scrap Mamiya C lens, needs some lateral thinking.

Personally I liked the Triotar on my old Rolleicord, I used it with some E4 Ektachrome, I was give a lot by a fellow pro when E6 was launched, the labs switched but I did my own E3/4 processing. Unfortunately I left my Rolleicord stored in a dry celllar (basement) when moving house, the celallar was dry all Autumn. Winter and Spring but damp from condensation in the Summer and the camera too badly corroded.

I have another Rolleicord and Triotar but the camera needs rebuilding.

Ian

Neil Grant · Mar 27, 2020

Ian Grant said:
Nothing to stop you getting a pair of Novar Triplets (or similar) and mounting them on a panel from a scrap Mamiya C lens, needs some lateral thinking.

nothing to stop me except a lack of expertise. I have a Yashikor triplet from a dismantled 'D' - but taking it apart was the easy job.

Ian

Ian Grant · Mar 27, 2020

If area 76 was in the Scottish Highlands I'd think you were my cousin (of the same name) His younger brother Hugh is much better known . . . . . . . as a Paediatric Surgeon.

Older Rolleicords with Triotars are really inexpensive that's your best bet, be aware the sharks selling them at high prices though

Ian

hsandler · Mar 27, 2020

I briefly owned a Rolleicord II, model 1 with a Zeiss Triotar. Here are two shots, both fairly stopped down. The lens was pretty good for circa 1936 uncoated.

Westboro beach by Howard Sandler, on Flickr

Untitled by Howard Sandler, on Flickr

Neil Grant · Mar 28, 2020

hsandler said:
I briefly owned a Rolleicord II, model 1 with a Zeiss Triotar. Here are two shots, both fairly stopped down. The lens was pretty good for circa 1936 uncoated.

Westboro beach by Howard Sandler, on Flickr

Untitled by Howard Sandler, on Flickr

..thanks - nice tonality to your photos. About your Rolleicord, did the lenses acquire a natural 'bloom' (which would improve contrast) and what's the film chamber like? Is it flocked or a smooth finish?

having tripets

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