Have You Ever Attempted To Fix Your Camera - Then Regret It?

Youtube videos are the jist of what to do, useful for a tech not familiar for that piece of equipment but familiar with camera repair.
I go for a factory service manual and never watch videos unless trying to clarify for a member posting here.
In your initial post and in post 9 your main concern is the wires. There is no hard rule. The wires are likely 20 to 24 gauge depending on their usage, 20 gauge for power distribution, 22 or 24 gauge for signals/aperture/light meter. In several manuals I have looked at the wires have to be desoldered to access whats under the circuit board or the wires. A 15 watt iron with a pin point tip is the only soldering iron to use. Rosin core solder is the only solder that can be used in electrical work, other types of solder will result in problems.
Wires will develop a curvature pattern from where they have laid for years. There are likely a channel or path in which the wires lay , some will be obvious others not. The wires may be warped with narrow strips of tape to make a bundle. They should never be rubbed by a moving part or pinched by a cover or part that mount over them. Sometimes you have to sit the cover down then push the wires from under the edge of the cover to finish seating it in place. You know you have them correct when they lay flat without twisting or stressing their attach point.

A common problem that I see or read about in amateur camera or electronics repair is taking things apart that don't need to be taken apart, or replacing electronics that don't need to be replaced.

If the viewfinder was clean a few months ago, and it is dirty now, how did it get dirty in places such that you need to take off the top cover to clean it? Much viewfinder dirt that I see is from disintegrating mirror cushion foam getting onto the bottom of the focusing screen. This can often be blown out with a rubber bulb or similar, and then the mirror foam rot should be addressed. If particles get between the prism and the focusing screen, it's typically a lot more involved to get them out, and one has to weigh the chances of damage against those of success.

DF said:

Perhaps I'll get a cheap, $30 SRT body off Ebay and practise on that.

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That's an excellent idea.

As far as tools are concerned, IMO you'll want to DIY or purchase something like this:
https://japanhobbytool.com/collections/camera-repair-tool/products/vacuum-pad-lens-opener
They can often be used in place of a clamp wrench or spanner and are far less likely to cause visible signs of damage. In the case of Minolta SRT, they could be used to remove the chrome ring surrounding the shutter release button, perhaps self-timer screws also. There are similar Chinese products available as well, and because sizes and shapes are a bit different, it probably wouldn't hurt to have more than one set of the things. These would be among my most-used camera tools.

I tried adjusting the vertical offset on a Canon 7 and now the rangefinder doesn't work. I suspect there was something wrong to begin with that someone else may have previously fixed.

Get a Konica T3, and fix the battery wire. Congratulations, you just graduated as a journeyman camera repairer.

I jest-- I have a T3, I have the service manual, I read through it, and decided that when I want the meter working, I'll send it to Greg Weber. He knows what he's doing, and estimates it's several hours to repair. I'm waiting for the light seals to fail... Might be awhile.

I really hate it when I finish the repair, get the last screw in place and find parts left over.

Not a camera but a very expensive lens. I thought, how hard can it be to take the elements out and do some cleaning? Well, when I turned the lens over and the elements fell out I knew I was in trouble. I tried and tried and I couldn't figure out how to get them back in the correct order. Lucky for me I was able to send it off to someone who actually knew what they were doing and got it back together and cleaned up perfectly.

I brought the appropriate tools to take the dent out of the filter ring of a LF lens that was given to me. I mostly removed the lens and inadvertently scraped off some of the front element's coating. Lesson learned.

Sirius Glass said:

I really hate it when I finish the repair, get the last screw in place and find parts left over.

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That happened to me when I was 17 & rebuilt the carb on a '74 Camaro. It still worked just fine, though.

I've butchered a camera or two in my time.

There was a Canon Rebel T2. I forgot what it was I was trying to fix, but I bent the metal shutter curtain in the process, so that repair failed.

There was an Olympus IS50QD. I forgot what it was I was trying to fix, but the camera doesn't work now.

There was a Lubitel with a focus issue. Now there's even more of a focus issue.

There was an old box camera when I was young. During the "repair" a spring in the shutter mechanism popped out and was lost.

There was a Canon Rebel XTi with a bent pin in the memory interface. Miracle of Miracle, I actually succeeded with that repair.

There was a Russian lens for a Kiev-60 with a faulty auto diaphragm mechanism. I didn't manage to fix it, but it seems no worse than before.

There was an Exakta with holes in the shutter curtain. I partially "repaired" the holes with some sort of goop. I think it worked fairly well, but I'm not sure I got all of the holes, and there are the questions about whether more holes will appear in the future and also whether the added mass on the shutter curtains will cause a problem with the shutter speeds.

I think there were a few other repair attempts along the way. Most failed, but there were a few successes. I have regretted all of the failures and have been pleased with the few successes.

No, never; why do you ask?

Early on (1990s) I sometimes acquired broken cameras to see if I could fix them, expecting not to. If I figured it out, great, if not I would typically strip them completely to learn more about how they’re built in the first place.

Now I’m pretty confident, but I only give it a go if I have or can get a schematic, the parts, and tools. I’m also a lot shakier now, 30 years later!

It was originally the poor service that I received from several supposedly trained camera repairers that made me invest in the tools to start working on them myself. I was paying a fortune for repairs that typically took months and where the camera was often returned with either the original fault not cured or another one introduced. I had a career in electronics and a previous background in mechanical engineering, so many of the processes involved were similar to things I'd already encountered but on a smaller scale. That said, a methodical approach and lashings of patience are required, along with a few 'experimental' cameras that don't matter. Very often, as with cars, hi-fi and many other things, the fault often comes down to something simple - battery compartment wire corroded off, a spring unhooked, congealed lubricant, etc.. The ability (and kit) to solder tiny wires are useful, as is a large illuminated magnifier. Also, becoming familiar with one particular make helps, just as car mechanics might specialise. About two years ago I had a problem with my Pentax K2's electronic shutter. Thinking that was something better left to someone with far more experience, I sent it away to a renowned repairer. It came back with the shutter fixed....... but the self timer no longer works!!!!
As time goes by and the 'old boys' who know how to work on our kind of equipment shuffle off to that darkroom in the sky, I think we are all going to have to be more self-reliant, just as in the world of classic cars.
Steve

only with a focal plane shutter ( speed and graflex sir )
heart sunk then beat fast. cold sweat all was almost lost
until I figured out it needed to be at "0"
I've written/published a "fix it / cla " entry somewhere for this problem
so no one else suffers that same stress. ...
YMMVFTSOTWATUCD

I had problems getting things back together correctly was a problem as was having parts left over.

Truzi said:

That happened to me when I was 17 & rebuilt the carb on a '74 Camaro. It still worked just fine, though.

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What film does the Camaro carburetor use?

Current endeavor a Graflex 70. Frayed strings of the shutter curtain would around the curtain roller shaft, a broken part that SKGrimes machined a replacement for $$$. Turning out to be 3 times more difficult than I expected. The Army service manual is a big help.
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Combat_Graphic

When i was refurbishing a Hasselblad A12 back about a decade ago, i pulled off the return gear from its shaft and i forgot that there is a torsion spring underneath which promptly came out with a "sproing" noise. This was one of my first repairs i did by myself.
I thought: Is the spring damaged? Will the service technician laugh very hard at me? Why did i do that in the first place?
But as i develop fine mechanics and electronics by profession (altough not cameras (yet)) i was not too worried after the first excitement and just removed the spring with utmost care, cleaned and reinstalled it as i intended.

Some time later, i worked on my silver C 80mm Planar because the times were off. First, the small steel ball which makes the detents of the timing/aperture ring flew out and it took about 2hrs to be found again.
I removed and cleaned the escapement in solvent and lubricated it with watch-grade oil in only small amounts. No lighter fluid and sewing machine oil job.
So far so good, but the big headache came afterwards: reassambling the housing of the compur shutter. I do not know how many hours and tries it took me but afterwards i knew the proper way to fiddle it into position. This was the second time where i was thinking
about wheter the technician will laugh at me when i bring him the box of parts
After reassembling it, one of the depth-of-field indicators sometimes got caught on something. Turned out there is one shorter screw among the ones that fasten the housing. I got it wrong and the longer one protruded into the way of the indicator...

But with patience and calmness, everything turned out just fine.


I never touched the 500 series bodies tough. But i am planning to build the measuring and adjustment gauge to measure body (focal) length and mirror angle. Primary to be able to verify camera geometry by myself after the body got knocked in the field for example.
And it would be one of the prerequisites to do any serious service on them.

Conclusion: There is nothing wrong with delving into camera repair as the qualified technicians are relatively scarce compared to 20years ago (but some of the remaining even educate new ones because of the uptick in repairs)
BUT: Get a sacrificial body/back/whatever to practice on! If you want to repair something you need, there is a realistic chance of ruining it. This depends on your experience and skills. Someone with experience in electronics or watchmaking is more likely to be
successful than someone who has just watched some of the youtube repair videos but barely knows how the hold a screwdriver correctly. Not to mention that those videos often get it completely wrong. I saw focusing screens unlatched with sharp tools and spalling
them several times or dropping pinhead sized drops of sewing machine oil onto the bearings and pivots of the escapement etc. etc.

When i would get a badly beaten-up 500C/M i would analyze, disassemble and reassemble it. Worst case it would be a source of spare parts for the other ones. But i would never do that with any of my good bodies.

My favourite quote regarding repairs: For fools rush in where angels fear to tread

The more experience i gained in various areas of mechanics and electronics, the more i know how much can go wrong.


One more: Pentax SP500 or similar. The shutter speed knob is fixed with a special screw which has 2 small holes for a spanner wrench. I tried to losen it. Guess what? Cracking noise and the screw was broken. What did i learn? Not all screws are right handed!
This stupidity of mine turned out not that bad as i was able to fabricate a replacement on the lathe, but those 5secs of being clumsy lead to the loss of a part where i could not get any spares.

Oh and don't forget that old Gossen Sixtar where i turned the wrong variable resistor by accident and completely ruined the linearity of the CdS cell. Correcting this will be a job for some winter evening where i will have to build some makeshift circuit to get the linearity right again...

I will stop now before i remember more screw-ups. They are already more than i like to admit

If I have a camera that I want to work on, I first buy a junker off eBay to use as a "stunt double" and practice the repair enough so that I'm comfortable doing it on the real camera. I've learned that I can do most repairs on some older mechanical cameras, like my Moskva-4. I've also learned that messing with the stunt double while watching hundreds of hours of Chris Sherlock videos notwithstanding, I don't have the skills to repair a more complex camera like my Retina IIa, so I sent it off to him to get it done right.

Helge said:

Fewer people should attempt camera repair.

It’s not ok to butcher an otherwise perfect camera because of a stuck shutter or a cloudy rangefinder.

It takes lots of specialty tools, lots of knowhow, and most importantly basic mechanical empathy.
Many people completely lack the last.

Save it until you have the money for a repair or can pass it to someone who has the skills.
How much money you happen to have had the unfortunate luck to have sunk into it matters not.

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This is very important, thanks Helge for saying this.

I'll add that you need "electronic empathy" too. Many repair people know very little electronics, thus can't solve electronic problems (that would be rather easy to solve for the electronics-savvy). They say "oh, it's an electronic camera, circuit is broken, toss the camera, buy a mechanical camera". I don't like these people, really.

Steve Roberts said:

It was originally the poor service that I received from several supposedly trained camera repairers that made me invest in the tools to start working on them myself.

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I work as a camera repairman on my spare time, and the reason I started working on cameras was exactly this reason. The only two good repairmen here retired, so nobody good would be able to service my cameras and lenses.

As for regrets, yesterday i was cleaning a Canon FD 24/2.8 SSC. As an unrepentant Canonista, i do have the rare Canon FD lens service manual (ALWAYS read service manuals before attempting to repair something). However the manual that was supposed to include the FD 24/2.8, didn't mention it. It was as if Canon didn't want you to disassemble that lens.

This is a lens that has a "floating" system, so besides the main helicoid, it has a secondary helicoid for the front lens group, which provides compensation. This makes this lens more difficult to service.

So i have to proceed blind. Alas, starting from the front, i unscrewed four screws that were covered with lacquer. Usually when screws are covered with lacquer, the message is clear: "don't touch me". But i had no choice since the retaining ring for the front lens group was extremely tight.

Well well, the four screws were holding two helicoid keys for the front helicoid... so I f*k*d it up.This meant i would need to disassemble the lens further. Even worse, one of the screws fell into the floor and disappeared, which meant i would have to spend time looking for it (a typical problem for the repair man)

Fortunately the retainer ring, formerly seized, was able to be unscrewed after insistent application of acetone. And then I could put the helicoid keys back again and reassemble the lens perfectly. But boy, i was very nervous.

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Some days ago I started disassembling one of my own Canon New F-1 cameras. These are very difficult cameras to service, so I'm learning by disassembling just one part and then assembling it back again. This time it was the wind-side cover. Well, the little ball that provides the clicks on the shutter-button lock is a real PITA to assemble back again... i did regret disassembling that machine.

Needless to say, I don't offer the repair/maitenance services for cameras that i'm not skilled at, like the F-1N.

Photomultiplier said:

Oh and don't forget that old Gossen Sixtar where i turned the wrong variable resistor by accident and completely ruined the linearity of the CdS cell. Correcting this will be a job for some winter evening where i will have to build some makeshift circuit to get the linearity right again...

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Never forget to mark all variable resistor positions! It's a great safety net.

Absolutely true. Usually i do this, but with the Gossen i was a bit absent minded^^

Better to have somebody who has the experience of hundreds of camera repairs. Also, beyond the manuals, there is a required knack not expressed in the manuals. And there is the problem of parts. I needed a tiny screw, a very tiny screw. Fastener dealers told me that that particular screw was a special manufacture, unique and hence unavailable.
Years ago I had a friend who was a third generation worker at Leitz. He told me that there were different engineering cultures. He would fix any German or Japanese camera for me for free, but would not attempt to work on a Swiss camera for any amount because he was uncomfortable with Swiss concepts of camera engineering. Would be interesting if APUG mechanical engineers would comment about validity of my friend’s comment.

guangong said:

Better to have somebody who has the experience of hundreds of camera repairs. Also, beyond the manuals, there is a required knack not expressed in the manuals. And there is the problem of parts. I needed a tiny screw, a very tiny screw. Fastener dealers told me that that particular screw was a special manufacture, unique and hence unavailable.
Years ago I had a friend who was a third generation worker at Leitz. He told me that there were different engineering cultures. He would fix any German or Japanese camera for me for free, but would not attempt to work on a Swiss camera for any amount because he was uncomfortable with Swiss concepts of camera engineering. Would be interesting if APUG mechanical engineers would comment about validity of my friend’s comment.

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Well, in can speak especially from an electronics standpoint. One can often tell instantly if a circuit board is of american, japanese or european origin. There is a different style in the PCB layout. In the past, it was even more obvious as japanese
consumer electronics used a typical PCB material. Funny enough, often the style of the silkscreen print was enough to tell it was japanese.
Components are also different.

Also the style of the schematics is often completely different. Japanese often filled the whole sheet with a startling amount of circuit, often to the point that you do not even see the general structure anymore where americans separated it over
multiple sheets.
So when repairing japanese stuff, it was often hard to wrap ones mind around the schematics and then there are some typical parts that we do not use here.

The whole design of the devices also often differs regarding electromechanical construction. Big mess-o-wires vs. neat backplane and plugins for example.

Hard to describe everything in a few lines, but there are differences. Sure, the circuit concepts are not that different but the style how they are implemented. The differences got smaller in recent years.


I experienced the same with machinery that i repaired.
But i would not go so far to say that i would generally not touch what i am not used to.

As cameras are far more intricate with lots of interconnected parts in a small volume, the statement of your friend makes a lot of sense to me, however.

When one repairs their own cameras, they help create a stable income for the professional camera repair people.

guangong said:

Years ago I had a friend who was a third generation worker at Leitz. He told me that there were different engineering cultures. He would fix any German or Japanese camera for me for free, but would not attempt to work on a Swiss camera for any amount because he was uncomfortable with Swiss concepts of camera engineering. Would be interesting if APUG mechanical engineers would comment about validity of my friend’s comment.

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I'm not a mechanical engineer, but it makes sense.

I don't like working on soviet cameras in general. If you see the Zenit EM disassembly tutorial elsewhere on Photrio, and you are already familiar working with japanese cameras, you'll see how different soviet cameras are. There's actually a Photrio member doing a similar comment there.

It's like an entirely different philosophy, where you need to know a lot of tricks to get the camera properly assembled,

Even when you repair, for example, a Pentax camera versus a Canon camera, you'll see there are different philosophies even within makers of the same country. For example Pentax is fond of using left-hand threads, even they will make a piece right-handed then change it during production to left-handed and later on a similar-looking model the piece might be right-handed again. On Canon machines almost no screw or retainer has a left-hand thread, for example.