Hasselblad not exposing the film

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

Before I describe the problem, I know that many here themselves wouldn't dare open their Hasselblad and will say, "Send it to an expert!" I may eventually do that, but saying that doesn't help. Before I do that I'd like to get some input from those who may know a bit more about these cameras than I do.

In a former life I was a jet mechanic, so do have some mechanical skills.

The camera is a 500C/M made in the mid-1980s. I purchased the body from an online auction knowing that the rear shutter (flaps) didn't close all the way after releasing the shutter button. They close nice and tight when winding the camera. I took the camera out of the shell, cleaned, and lubricated the "clockwork," and now only the lower flap doesn't completely close. I suspect that the flat coil spring underneath a round plate on the right side of the camera is weak, or there may be something beneath that causing too much friction. But since the flaps close tight when the camera is wound, and they open completely and do not sag when firing the camera, I can live with this. My other C/M body does the exact same thing and I've never had a problem with blank film. This problem does not seem to affect the function of the camera. Am I wrong?

Anyway, I took the camera out today to test it. Put a new roll of film in and went on a short hike in the hills above Albuquerque. I used a known good lens (80mm CF Planar), and a new to me A-12 film magazine which appeared to function perfectly. The magazine was made sometime in the 1990s.

It was a sunny day and almost all the exposures were made at 1/250-sec at f/16 - aside from the sunny 16 rule, this exposure agreed with my exposure meter.

Back at the darkroom an hour later I pulled the roll out of the fixer and 8 out of the 12 exposures were just missing. Spacing appeared to be good, and the empty exposures were random throughout the roll. (And no, I didn't even have a lens cap with me.)

Anyone have an idea what this might be? I took the back off and fired the shutter numerous times while looking through the back. Each time I could see the brief blink of the shutter opening and closing. Tried this at all shutter speeds and it seems to work. If the rear flaps were "lazy" there would at least be part of an image in the film, but there isn't. The images that were exposed look absolutely perfect.

 

[Sirius Glass]

How did you know that the spacing is correct? Are the frames partially exposed? If so then it sound like the shutter flaps are not opening.

If you later decide to have the camera serviced, I have all my Hasselblad work done by Mike at Samy's Camera on Fairfax in Los Angeles. His prices are reasonable and he is a Hasselblad certified technician.

Los Angeles Store & Rentals
431 S. Fairfax Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90036

Telephone: 323-938-2420
Fax: 323-937-2919 | E-Mail: lacamera@samys.com

Hours:
Mon-Fri: 9:30am-6:30pm; Sat: 10:00am-6:00pm; Sun: 11:00am-5:00pm

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

Sirius, 4 of the 12 were perfectly exposed. There were 1 to 3 blank spaces between the good exposures and they appeared to have the proper spacing even though there was nothing on the negative between the good exposures (except some light leaks, which is a separate issue).

 

[shutterfinger]

I would take the backing paper from one of the processed rolls, turn it around so the outside shows the black side, load it in the roll holder, attach the holder to the body and operate the camera as you would on a shoot while looking in through the lens. You should easily see the backing paper at the pressure plate at slower speeds and detect it at faster speeds.
It won't be the first time someone hears the camera operate including the shutter but the shutter blades don't move or the mirror does not flip up. Nor will it be the first time the body works fine without a lens and film holder but fails with them attached. This type of failure is not limited to one make of camera either.

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

Thanks Shutter, I'll try the backing paper trick. I may also try another lens and another film magazine - one at a time. Process of elimination.

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

While it is possible that the shutter is playing hide and seek with respect to it operating every time, it is certain that the body has a problem that is typical. When you mentioned the barn door issue, I was able to diagnose the body problem with reasonable certainty, considering I can't actually have it iny hands to prove my belief. All that said, you have no camera until it has been fully serviced. The barn doors not closing, or fully opening, leads back to spring problems and lubrication failure. I know this problem exactly. Do not use the camera until service. You are asking for a big problem with the destruction of a very tiny spring that is as fine as a hair. Be forewarned.

Are you saying that the body isn't firing the shutter every time? And if so, what's the solution aside from, "send it to an expert." and what is this tiny spring that you speak of?

You may well be right about the camera, but no camera takes black magic to repair.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Shutterfinger's use of the backing paper is a great tool that I have seen repairmen do. Also, repeatedly firing the shutter may help loosen up the mechanism. The camera may need a CLA [Clearing, Lubrication and Adjusting].

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

Thank you all for your advice.

Sirius, I may try to fire the shutter a hundred or so times using backing paper to observe the film plane. If that works I'll put another roll through.

And APUGuser19, I appreciate your input. A couple hundred bucks for a CLA may be worth the cost, but I'll try a few other things first. It's appearing to me that this mechanism is composed of a lot of interdependent parts that, if one is out of place or doesn't move as it should, mucks up the whole process. Kind of a mix of art and mechanical engineering of sorts. Am I right? Not so good in terms of redundancy, but I guess it keeps the parts count down at the cost of straightforward repair. Does that make any sense?

 

[Leigh B]

You'll mangle the fine spring of which I spoke before you get much past 25.

Could you please identify that spring, with a copy of the diagram from the parts catalog?

- Leigh

 

[Leigh B]

See the archives.

I don't know where the archives are.

- Leigh

 

[Leigh B]

Search block.

Is that supposed to mean something?

Leigh

 

[shutterfinger]

Also know that shutterfinger is a repair tech to be respected. But I have no idea as to his Hass abilities

Self taught on cameras. I read the service manual and went to work. I have never touched a Hasselblad. I find tackling a complex camera or a madman's invention of ingenious simplicity without a manual a PITA.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
others?

 

[Ai Print]

In a former life I was a jet mechanic, so do have some mechanical skills.

Me too, USN from 85-89, mostly F-14, F-18, A-6 and SH-3 engines, been a professional photographer since 1990 though.

That being said, much like assuming having done a scheduled tear down of the fuel control of a TF-30 would make simple work of the same task on a modern F-35 engine, assuming your jet mech skills of doing compressor bore scope inspections and uber precise torque patterns would be a pave way to making sense of the watch-like assembly of a Hasselblad is, well....insane.

APUGuser19 gave very sound advice numerous times, sure hope you followed it because he is spot on.

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

It's mostly curiosity that makes me want to learn more about these little contraptions. Not so much saving a few bucks. In the end I'll probably send it off, but mostly because I'm still working and don't have the time to unravel the hasselblad "secrets." Although I really don't think there's much to them once one can visualize how the mechanism works.

No longer work on jets, I took a completely different path upon retiring from the Air Force. Now a very busy hydrogeologist in a state where water is scarce.

 

[benjiboy]

I was an apprentice trained precision engineer and a member of the Institute Mechanical Engineers and worked at a company who made turbine blades for Rolls Royce jet engines for twelve years and I would rather attempt removing the appendix of one of my children than try and repair a Hasselblad, I'm afraid it's a case of every man to his own trade when specialized work is involved, and many camera technicians and companies won't attempt to repair equipment that has been tampered with.

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

There's an economics principal that basically says (paraphrased), "Continue to do what you're good at doing, and hire others to do what you're not good at doing. It's far more efficient."

(But maybe when I retire I'll take a junker apart to see what makes it tick.)

 

[Ai Print]

I guess I get the learn by dissection thing.

Much to my father's chagrin, I took things apart starting at age 4. I recall a very early childhood memory of being around 5-6 where I had successfully disassembled a reel to reel tape recorder.

I'm actually pretty good at most mechanical things, recently re-built a supercharger for my favorite piece of camera gear, my Toyota truck / camper. I have also done loads of reasonable repairs on cameras and lenses, a good thing to know how to do while in the field since a repair shop is not going to save your high paying ad shoot.

I have the repair manuals for some Hasselblad items, can do light trap replacements on film backs all day long and with some patience can even out the spacing. But these are incoming earning tools for me so I need to be 101% sure they are in spec.

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

I guess I get the learn by dissection thing.

Much to my father's chagrin, I took things apart starting at age 4. I recall a very early childhood memory of being around 5-6 where I had successfully disassembled a reel to reel tape recorder.

I'm actually pretty good at most mechanical things, recently re-built a supercharger for my favorite piece of camera gear, my Toyota truck / camper. I have also done loads of reasonable repairs on cameras and lenses, a good thing to know how to do while in the field since a repair shop is not going to save your high paying ad shoot.

I have the repair manuals for some Hasselblad items, can do light trap replacements on film backs all day long and with some patience can even out the spacing. But these are incoming earning tools for me so I need to be 101% sure they are in spec.

Understand.

I don't earn a living with a camera (I'm better at finding and developing groundwater resources), but it is frustrating when they don't work. I bought this body as a spare for my other one. We have a camera repair place here in Albuquerque that's been in business for many years. I know that they stock at least some Hasselblad parts, and assume that they "may" be able to do a CLA. I'll ask this week - they're just down the street from where I work.

 

[benjiboy]

There's an economics principal that basically says (paraphrased), "Continue to do what you're good at doing, and hire others to do what you're not good at doing. It's far more efficient."

(But maybe when I retire I'll take a junker apart to see what makes it tick.)

Very good thinking Axel, you wouldn't want to employ a qualified camera technician to service a jet engine, not if you were going to fly in the aircraft.I believe it's a wise man who knows his own limitations

 

[Sirius Glass]

You'll never get through a couple hundred firings. You'll mangle the fine spring of which I spoke before you get much past 25. GL. That's one less hasselblad left in the world. You WILL destroy it. Guaranteed. Kinda makes me a little sick. As for Sirius, he and I could be great buds out on a shooting trip, but he's not a tech. He likes them. I know them. Learning Hass repair gave me the audacity to tackle an IBM Selectric II. BTW Hass repair can be very straightforward, once you know the ramifications of your next mistake, AFTER you've made it unless you knew that beforehand.

SPUGuser19 and I are on the same page. I do not do any repair work on my Hasselblad. I send my cameras to the repair man for all work. Follow what he said.

I will do repair work on car engines and off roading equipment and suspensions. I was a spacecraft engineer and worked on optical spacecraft sensors but I will not work on the Hasselblad.

 

[Leigh B]

The 500C/M is a relatively simple mechanism, with parts generally doing a single job, and doing it well.

Download a copy of the service manual for the 503CW, readily available online.
It has very complete instructions for dis-assembly, re-assembly, and adjustment of the body.

The information is applicable to the 500C/M, and includes an illustrated parts catalog for that model.
I do not know of any comparable service manual specifically for the 500C/M.

Of course some of the adjustments are beyond the scope of an amateur tech since you don't have the tools and gauges.

- Leigh

 

[MattKing]

Much to my father's chagrin, I took things apart starting at age 4. I recall a very early childhood memory of being around 5-6 where I had successfully disassembled a reel to reel tape recorder.

And were you able to put it back together successfully as well?

 

[shutterfinger]

USAF, E5 minimum time in grade, minimum time in service. AGM28B nuclear missile launched from a B52. One of the best in the AF at the time on the guidance and flight control systems.
I've worked TV service as well as microprocessor controlled machinery. Love proving engineers wrong.
Trouble shooting a camera failure is a piece of cake, fixing it is a different story.

 

[Sirius Glass]

SPUGuser19 and I are on the same page. I do not do any repair work on my Hasselblad. I send my cameras to the repair man for all work. Follow what he said.

I will do repair work on car engines and off roading equipment and suspensions. I was a spacecraft engineer and worked on optical spacecraft sensors but I will not work on the Hasselblad.

My apologies for calling you not a tech. Optical spacecraft dooflotchies--sounds like some pretty fancy doings to me. I believe I'll stay with the p47 ground crew work next time I can find a gig doing that.

No offense taken. You accurately described my use of the Hasselblad and my way of handing and Hasselblad issues that arise. I am about 15 minutes drive from Samy's so I can go over there and speak directly with the Hasselblad repair man and show him the problem. Often, if is not a big job, he will adjust the camera while I wait [ and buy more film].

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

I went ahead and tempted fate with another eBay body. According to the seller a CLA was done in the last two years, and it's mechanically perfect. Will still get the problem body CLA'd. It will be nice to have two operational bodies, plus a spare.

Today I put the same lens and film magazine on my good body, shot, and developed a roll. All perfect. It's definitely a bad body. This has turned into an interesting thread.