Hasselblad jamming - how bad of a problem is this?

[Q.G.]

It didn't always occur, and I had to press pretty hard on the shutter button to get it jam

Still, it wouldn't do so unless something (else) is not right.

 

[mikebarger]

QC, I wasn't clear... I meant not many first generation C bodies, with the hole. There are lots of second generation C bodies, a fair amount of transition bodies, and tons of C lens floating around.

Mike

 

[Q.G.]

My bad, Mike.
You're right, of course.

 

[fdisilvestro]

It didn't always occur, and I had to press pretty hard on the shutter button to get it jam

Maybe if you press hard enough you get to bend or break the internal levers and get it jam. In that case, even if there was nothing wrong before, there will be something wrong now, that should require repair.

Hasselblads and pretty hard don´t mix, never force anything

Francisco

 

[jeffreyg]

Q.G.
I purchased the tubes, cameras and lenses new from Calumet about 15 - 16 years ago. When the first jam occurred the camera was sent back to Hasselblad whose technician told me it had happened to him as well and they replaced a part that had been changed because of some type of a flaw in that part. Obviously others were having a similar problem or they would not retool the part. The equipment was still under warranty at the time. It has jammed once or twice since with no explanation.

 

[amac212]

However infrequent, camera body jams and lens jams can occur but don't feel daunted by that. They are not show-stoppers.

If you do decide to move forward with a purchase, consider picking up a copy of The Hasselblad Manual by Ernst Wildi. In it you'll find detailed information on the operation of just about every piece of Hasselblad equipment.

Cheers!

 

[picker77]

I think the best entry, for low cost, would be a 500C transitional body. They are the same as a CM, removable viewfinder screen, but still carry the C marking...not the CM marking. If you watch the 500C on ebay a lot of times the seller doesn't know enough about the camera to know it has the later screen feature. I try to buy low and send pieces to David Odess for a CLA to get me off on the right foot.

Thanks for the helpful replies, gentlemen, especially Mike. I'll look closely at the 500C transitional body thing. A little homework will be needed to be certain I can positively identify that body compared to a "C".

 

[Q.G.]

The tell tale signs of a "transitional C/M" are the focussing screen retainers. Without seeing those, you can't be certain.

Don't pass on good 500 C/Ms looking for a transitional C though.
Compared to the number of C/M-badged cameras about, there are not that many "transitional" bodies. (Even though Hasselblad historian Rick Nordin estimates the number of transitional bodies to be at the very least 15,000 - compare that to 5 times as many C cameras, and 15 times as many C/Ms.)

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Don't pass on good 500 C/Ms looking for a transitional C though.

Very true - the 500 C/M bodies are really cheap too. And they often come with the newer waistlevel finder, which I find much quicker to use.

 

[Q.G.]

Q.G.
I purchased the tubes, cameras and lenses new from Calumet about 15 - 16 years ago. When the first jam occurred the camera was sent back to Hasselblad whose technician told me it had happened to him as well and they replaced a part that had been changed because of some type of a flaw in that part. Obviously others were having a similar problem or they would not retool the part.

Nice story, but too bad they didn't say what part, so that we could have looked it up in the service letters.

The equipment was still under warranty at the time. It has jammed once or twice since with no explanation.

But there is an explanation, Jeffrey. In fact, there are even two.
One is that your camera is not the way it should be. Cameras that are 'in spec' simply do not do that.
So it's that, or that other thing: user error.

 

[pgomena]

I have pretty consistent problems with my 503cx. I suspect the camera is "out of spec" as Q.G. says.

I usually have it on a tripod, mirror locked up. If I then accidentally bump the winding knob, the camera will lock up. The lens fires without opening the rear shutter doors. I then have to re-cock the lens before I can use it again. The film is not affected. Sometimes it seems to happen if I just look at the camera the wrong way. The same thing happens if I accidentally lock up the mirror after the last frame on the roll has been exposed. This causes a lot of aggravation in the field. It's due for a tuneup, so I'll bring it to the tech's attention.

Peter Gomena

 

[greybeard]

All other Hasselblad V-System reflex cameras use the very same lens to camera interface, use the same extension tubes, and bellows, so should suffer the same jams.
Yet no (that is: no) reports at all about jams and unjamming of 200/2000-series or EL-series cameras.


Well, there is now. My 201F jammed for no apparent reason; it is not fifth-hand, has had all of about ten rolls of film through it, and the lens was not being mounted or dismounted at the time. It worked perfectly when I dry-fired it to check the flash, then jammed after winding the film to frame 1). When I get around to it, I will send it off to Hasselblad, if only to get the lens off intact.

I also have a 501CM which locked up after the fourth exposure on a roll, all on a tripod and without manipulating anything other than the winding crank and cable release between exposures. Some coaching by David Odess let me get the magazine and finder off, but the usual unjam procedure would not allow the bellows or lens to be removed. This is probably true mechanical failure, but the fact remains that these cameras are a) complex, and b) nontrivial to repair.

Don't get me wrong--I love the 'Blads, but there is a certain amount of mythology about them (such as the notion that all V-system components are intercompatible) and a great deal of partisanship (along the lines of "They never fail" versus "They routinely jam"). My personal take is that owning one is sort of like owning a top-of-the-line German sports car: the performance potential is undeniable, but if you aren't willing to budget a large percentage of the purchase price for routine maintenance, the perhaps something a bit less exotic would suit you better.

 

[Q.G.]

Well, there is now. My 201F jammed for no apparent reason; it is not fifth-hand, has had all of about ten rolls of film through it, and the lens was not being mounted or dismounted at the time. It worked perfectly when I dry-fired it to check the flash, then jammed after winding the film to frame 1). When I get around to it, I will send it off to Hasselblad, if only to get the lens off intact.

Could be a battery failure.
Have you tried the reset-procedure? (Press center portion of the wind crank during start of turning the crank.)

Don't get me wrong--I love the 'Blads, but there is a certain amount of mythology about them (such as the notion that all V-system components are intercompatible) and a great deal of partisanship (along the lines of "They never fail" versus "They routinely jam"). My personal take is that owning one is sort of like owning a top-of-the-line German sports car: the performance potential is undeniable, but if you aren't willing to budget a large percentage of the purchase price for routine maintenance, the perhaps something a bit less exotic would suit you better.

That's the thing.

A thread about possibly buying a camera of brand X based on the assumption that there is a "routinely occuring failure" to deal with if you do is just crazy (unless that brand X happens to be Kiev ).
Everything mechanical will wear and break eventually. Well made mechanical things will do so rather later than sooner. Abused well made things probably sooner again.

The sports car analogy isn't the right one though. Sports cars are tuned for performance, and to achieve more of that, reliabilty has to give. With these cameras it's the opposite: they are tuned for reliability, and not 'mph' or 'bhp'.
Depending on how you treat them, Hasselblads can go on working flawlessly for many, many decades. Take care of these machines, and they will last a life time.

But this jam thingy...
If it happens, it really is down to either one of two things: using equipment that is out of spec, or user error.
And it's not (!) a common thing. On the contrary.

(I would dispute that these cameras are complex and difficult to repair - because they are not - but that's perhaps stuff for another thread.)

 

[aluncrockford]

The problem with extension tubes is that if you remove the tube off the camera then try and take the lens off, the tube can fire the lens,all you have to do is re cock the lens and all is resolved, if you try and jam the lens on the body with an uncocked lens then trouble awaits, as long as you make yourself aware of how to use the camera you should have no problem whatsoever with, in my opinion the finest MF camera ever made.

 

[mikebarger]

Guess all this jamming talk will help keep prices for used stuff down. I'll be getting a 40mm if this thread can go another couple pages...

 

[fschifano]

Trust me I'm not a liar. MY hasselblad jammed because I had the dark slide in in the middle of a hike around huang shan. Furthermore, MY hasselblad seemed to have no other issues. It made very nice images.

Mine absolutely will not fire with the darkslide in place.

 

[mikebarger]

He later added

"I had to press pretty hard on the shutter button to get it jam"

I guessing that's when the damage occurred.

 

[greybeard]

The sports car analogy isn't the right one though. Sports cars are tuned for performance, and to achieve more of that, reliabilty has to give.

The next time I'm near a BMW dealership, I'll try to remember to show them this statement and see if they agree

But this jam thingy...
If it happens, it really is down to either one of two things: using equipment that is out of spec, or user error.

Which sort of suggests that the engineering does not accommodate routine use without periodic (and expensive) maintenance, or that the user interface is overly demanding. I suppose that you could say that once a spring has broken, the camera is "out of spec" and should not be expected to perform properly, but I can't recall seeing that in Hasselblad's literature anywhere

 

[Q.G.]

The sports car analogy isn't the right one though. Sports cars are tuned for performance, and to achieve more of that, reliabilty has to give.

The next time I'm near a BMW dealership, I'll try to remember to show them this statement and see if they agree

I'm sure they will.

But this jam thingy...
If it happens, it really is down to either one of two things: using equipment that is out of spec, or user error.

Which sort of suggests that the engineering does not accommodate routine use without periodic (and expensive) maintenance, or that the user interface is overly demanding. [...]

No, it most certainly does not.
An assumption that it will need servicing every month or so to keep the machine working, and that user errors are anywhere near as common as these nonsensical reports this thread revolves around might suggest does.
So don't assume such silly things.



Have you tried to reset the 201 yet?

 

[dfoo]

He later added

"I had to press pretty hard on the shutter button to get it jam"

I guessing that's when the damage occurred.

I didn't hit it with a sledgehammer. I was using a remote release so it cannot be that hard.

 

[picker77]

On second thought, after reading all this, maybe I'm trying to get above my raisin' here. Maybe I'll stick with my simple, dead reliable old RB67, which is admittedly a little larger and heavier--but temperamental and delicate it's not. Like a Smith & Wesson revolver, it works every time I pull the trigger. If it doesn't, replacement bodies are available all over the planet for $100. Haven't seen many 500C/M replacement bodies around for $100, and I doubt that VH-trained people would do even the simplest little repair for chump change like that.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

On second thought, after reading all this, maybe I'm trying to get above my raisin' here. Maybe I'll stick with my simple, dead reliable old RB67, which is admittedly a little larger and heavier--but temperamental and delicate it's not. Like a Smith & Wesson revolver, it works every time I pull the trigger. If it doesn't, replacement bodies are available all over the planet for $100. Haven't seen many 500C/M replacement bodies around for $100, and I doubt that VH-trained people would do even the simplest little repair for chump change like that.

The lab at school had lots of problems with the RB67 series, so they aren't perfect either. I had a RZ67 lock up on me actually.

We got our backup Hasselblad body for $120, and the repair man I use (I can give you his info if you want) is very reasonable. C series lenses can be had for around $200-300.

I don't think you're going to have any issues with a Hassy, and it is a LOT lighter than the RB.

 

[mikebarger]

I've also had a RB67 Pro S for a few years and it wasn't anymore, or less, reliable than my Hassy's. However, besides being as big as a boat anchor I couldn't get nearly as nice of prints from it even with the larger negative. So off to Ebay it went.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

There's actually a 500C on Large Format Photo forum for $120 right now, with a waistlevel finder.

 

[dfoo]

That is a great deal. You'd definitely love a Hasselblad, waist level finder and a 80mm lens. Check the light seals in the back... I ruined several rolls of film because of bad seals too