Hasselblad Infinity Desparity Question.

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henry finley

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I am the "OP", guys. And I don't whack on everything with a hammer. I'm a good repairman--of anything I set my mind to. Better than most. A little regard, please. I'm telling you that there are many times when getting out a piece of hardwood like a piece of letterpress furniture or whatever, and giving things a tappy-tap is a million times better than trying to get things to move into perfect position by the hand-movement method. You don't go past where you want to be, and then have to go back again--back and forth, back and forth till you just give up and call it close enough. A few tappy-taps, and there you are--perfect.
And as for the late 50's-60's Hammarlunds--there's no better receivers out there. I can align one to where I practically never have to crystal-oscillate.
 

Paul Goutiere

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And as for the late 50's-60's Hammarlunds--there's no better receivers out there. I can align one to where I practically never have to crystal-oscillate.

I love those things too. I have a Hammarlund Super Pro 210 that someone abused pretty badly by removing the amplifier and replacing it with a internal power supply. This was a common
thing to do with these apparently.

I works but needs an external amplifier and this doesn't seem very authentic.
 

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There's a companion transmitter to that, also electrically/remotely tuned. There's an "Old Military Net" on (IIRC) Sunday mornings on the 75m ham band, guys are using these sets still. Some are even using the original carbon mikes, which give an "interesting" sound quality.:laugh:
My main serious SW listening reciever is a Collins R-388. I can tune a sideband signal with the BFO, shut the set off for a day, turn it on and after about 30 minutes it's right back on top of the signal. They just amaze me.:smile::smile:
I know the R-388. It is a remarkable device.
I almost had one, but before I could drive the 130 kms to Calgary, to get it, some fiend bought it!

My next receiver will be either a Marconi R1155 (Lancaster Bomber) or a Hallicrafters SX 28. ( not the SX28a. ) I don't think I want to go through the effort of
restoring the Halli, but I'd do a R1155.

I'm not a Amateur radio operator, but I really like old radios. Has something to do with a certain aesthetic I suppose.
 
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henry finley

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People who modify and destroy factory originality should be taken out and horsewhipped. I don't know how many times I've had to undo some knucklehead's destruction and put it back to factory. I went to great lengths to put my 68 Camaro Convertible back to showroom. ANYBODY can cut holes in the floorboard to install Hurst shifters, and all sorts of destruction like that. Everything has the right to exist the way the factory made it.
 

lxdude

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People who modify and destroy factory originality should be taken out and horsewhipped. I don't know how many times I've had to undo some knucklehead's destruction and put it back to factory. I went to great lengths to put my 68 Camaro Convertible back to showroom. ANYBODY can cut holes in the floorboard to install Hurst shifters, and all sorts of destruction like that. Everything has the right to exist the way the factory made it.
Hurst shifters were used because they were better than stock shifters for performance. Sometimes modifications make sense. Not every car at a car show must be stock. Otherwise there would be no Customs and no Rods. Clean, period-correct modifications are especially valued- Hurst shifters, Cragars, Airheart brakes, Holley carbs, all a testament to a time, type of machine and level of technology.
I try to always make modifications reversible, or at least make them so that they are clean, well thought out, and compatible with the original design, including mundane things like using metric on metric machines and inch size on inch size machines. I strive to use standard parts, so someone later can easily source replacement parts if needed.

I do detest bad modifications, or those done because someone did not want to go to the trouble of fixing something right. I have had to undo, then redo, more than a few of those.
But intelligent modifications can make a machine work better, perform better, be more reliable, etc. My Honda motorcycle has several clean modifications done to it to overcome weaknesses in the design, including frame gussets and elimination of the regulator/rectifier connector, which would heat up and fail, a chronic problem on many 80's Hondas. With that one, I soldered the wires together, then zip-tied them to the frame so the wires would not fatigue at the solder joint. The frame acts as a heat sink, as those wires always run warm. So it's not just the mod, but the mod done right. I put a relay in the horn circuit, which, no kidding, had been running full juice through the switch, causing a damaged switch when a horn shorted. And of course, I put on a decent seat. My bike won't do well at a concours, but it's a better bike than it was when it was in showroom condition.
I filed the plastic tip on the wind lever of my first 35mm SLR back in 1974 because it had a bit of a sharp edge, and it was much more comfortable afterward. It was a nearly invisible mod, though my camera wasn't destined to remain pristine, anyway. I've done that on others, too, even on my Nikon F3, followed with a little polish to make it indiscernible by eye.

In my later profession as a golf course superintendent I modified many of my turf machines, mainly the large mowers, to correct deficiencies in design. Those included such things as a mowing unit support riding on the threads of a grade 5 bolt, which was rectified by drilling out the damaged support, installing bushings and grease nipples, and having the shank of a bolt riding in the bushing, instead of threads. A solid fix for a bonehead design from Toro, with easily replaced wear parts. And welding reinforcing plates on a frame of a mower by Jacobsen, another top name in the business, because they always cracked sooner or later. Then there was the Jacobsen triplex greens mower that destroyed its wiring when the seat safety switch shorted, because there was no fuse or fusible link all the way from the battery to the control panel. The wire that overheated damaged all the wires in the harness. I got a brand new harness and before even installing it, I cut it just after the battery connection and installed a fuse holder and main fuse, and fused the seat switch separately, too.
I'm not even going to get started on some of the John Deere turf equipment, great as their large equipment is. Deere undercuts Toro and Jacobsen on price, and it shows.

I'm amazed at some of the failings commercial products can have at times, when a little more thought or creativity at the design/engineering level (or a thorough lashing of bean counters) would have produced a better product. I'm doubly amazed when glaring failings are not corrected during the life of a product. I mean, I would rather Nikon had removed the F3's lousy meter light switch and abandoned the usually non-working or intermittent meter illuminator, than not correct that insult to an otherwise top quality camera.
 
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henry finley

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I would rather that Nikon had made their F3's into F2's, straight from the factory. There wasn't anything better than the F2, unless it was a Nikkormat FT2, maybe.
As far as other motorized machinery, I'll maintain each piece's right to be kept intact as original when I restore something. But then, maybe I'm the next guy up the restoration chain on most things. I undo the modifications and put things back. You sound like a pretty good guy I'd want to have his hands on something before me. But in the end, I'm going to put it back to showroom. It's just my nature.
 

E. von Hoegh

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People who modify and destroy factory originality should be taken out and horsewhipped. I don't know how many times I've had to undo some knucklehead's destruction and put it back to factory. I went to great lengths to put my 68 Camaro Convertible back to showroom. ANYBODY can cut holes in the floorboard to install Hurst shifters, and all sorts of destruction like that. Everything has the right to exist the way the factory made it.

My '69 440+6 Roadrunner had an aftermarket Hurst, there were no cuts made in the floor; it was a bolt-in fit and could have been put back to factory original with a little time and some wrenches.

I'm a firm believer in not modifying things in any permanent way. I wanted a halogen headlight on my '64 XLCH (originally 6 volt lights and a Fairbanks-Morse FM-2 for ignition, no battery) so I found a Pan-Shovel style 12v generator and regulator, also a horn, that would bolt on, found a drop in 12v halogen sealed beam, and actually had a useable headlight! When I sold the bike, all the original parts went with it. Except for the gas, oil, plugs, tires, and some gaskets it is now as it came out of the factory in '64, including the original paint.:smile:
 
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Mark Crabtree

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I really like seeing original spec gear. In spite of that, we are here mostly to talk about cameras, and they were made as tools for photography. I spent some time at at a friend's studio last year when he was getting rid of his film gear. It was great fun seeing all the the modifications he'd made to make his equipment do what he needed to do. I don't think there was a camera in the place that hadn't been drilled, Dremeled, glued, or sawed.

I'm generally more timid in my modifications, but my main money maker has been Kodak #10 Cirkut Cameras for many years, and those have been heavily modified to do things that were just not possible in their original state. I always thought it would be amusing to see somebody trying to duplicate one of my shots (or get one of my jobs) and trying to figure out how the heck I was able to get that shot.
 
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henry finley

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Picking back up on trhis older thread

I would thing the smartest way is just to detail my question, then follow with my qualification level afterward. I hope some Hasselblad-qualified people dive in, just for my edification, as I have no intention to take their knowledge and then compete with them by hanging a camera-repair shingle.
So on with the question: why is there seemingly no point of perfect infinity when I switch lenses across the old 500CM's and ELM-era cameras? I've worked on maybe 20-30 different Hasselblad items. Heck, maybe 50 times by now... I clean and re-lube the lenses or foam the bodies--stuff like that. And you know something truthful?--there's never any meaningful infinity adjustment. Take the 80mm off one and put it on another, and it's never dead-on. Sometimes a downright disappointment. Or maybe I'm just too sensitive. Now that my question is stated, please give due credit to my 45 years of working on cameras as an extremely advanced hobbiest. I know that the Hasselblad repair people have gazillions of dollars of equipment and tolerances to the electron. I know full well what I have no business taking apart or fouling up, without the right test fixtures. Thank you. ***************************************​
Picking back up on this thread at a later date, I have done more study on this problem of inconsistent infinity on the Hasselblads. What I hope is that some other Hasselblad techs will join in--whether factory-taught, or self taught (like me). Having none of the dozens of special tools and test-jigs, I have to rely on a mixture of a dial caliper, and common sense. There's some things I have no business tampering with. I have a rule--don't adjust something if you don't have the fancy factory jig for it. Having said that--I COULD do it with the right tools.
As far as having the infinity symbol on the lens being all over the place when switching from one body to another--this is something I consider an error-percentage that is completely unacceptable. Downright sorry, actually, at least in my opinion.
I believe I've found at least 1 culprit. I cannot prove it, but I suspect that it is so--I don't have the mirror fixtures and/or jigs. I believe STRONGLY that it is the mirror-hinges more that any other 1 thing. I think all that killer-strong jerking of the whole axle assembly to be yanking these mirror measurements out-of-whack. The one most glaringly disappointing design characteristics is that the C's and CM's all have their mirrors flip up cattywampus. Higher on the right, because that is the side where the spring is. An ELM has a stilt in the left side to keep the mirror supported, and going up straight.
But on a C or CM, I'll be a nickle the reason I can't be made happy with infinity on the ground glass is because these mirrors have beaten themselves silly, to where it's just plain out-of-adjustment. Any input would be appreciated.
 
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Henry, I am sure that the mirror hinges are not the problem. The mirrors are slightly higher on the right on the older C, CMs by design. The mirror glass is supported by three foam pads, these can be perished on older cameras, replace these and set the mirror to EXACTLY 45 degrees relative to the image plane.

This is my third attempt to add to this thread but for some reason within this thread my replies do not get posted!!!
 
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henry finley

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Henry, I am sure that the mirror hinges are not the problem. The mirrors are slightly higher on the right on the older C, CMs by design. The mirror glass is supported by three foam pads, these can be perished on older cameras, replace these and set the mirror to EXACTLY 45 degrees relative to the image plane.

This is my third attempt to add to this thread but for some reason within this thread my replies do not get posted!!!
I wish I could get my hands on the jigs and fixtures you factory-trained guys have. Fooling around with the 45 angle for me would be foolish. All I can do is approach things another way. I have an 80mm lens with no screwdriver marks on the little screw that holds the distance scale on. From this I deduce that the lens has never been touched or disturbed from the factory setting, 2) A dial caliper shows a nominal 71.4mm from the black front body flange (with the round-cornered rectangular opening) measured from there to the pressure plate of a film back. Measuring this on 2 cameras gives the same reading, so I ASSUME this is not out-of-whack. So that brings me to the focusing screen. So I ask myself why anyone would have fooled with the 4 little pegs the CM screen sits on. Since there is no reason why anyone would have fooled with them, then that leaves me only the mirror. So I as myself why anyone would have bent the bottom stop arm. Once again, there is no reason to believe it's off adjustment. So, I've run out of reasons why infinity never turns up the same when switching lenses across cameras.
The foam is important, but not a bearing on the mirror angle when the mirror is down. As we know, all these C's and CM's look terrible when the mirror is up. Hanging down on the left side like that. That's just shabby, to me--unbefitting what I'd expect of a Hasselblad, a Rolls Royce, or a Mercedes.
So with no jigs, all I can do is my best. That is usually good enough for most people, but not for me. I want infinity at the stop--not between 50 feet and infinity one one camera, and the infinity peg not letting it get to the mark on another.
 
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Henry, I cant provide a solution to your problem. Without factory tools it will hard but not impossible. You have misunderstood what I said. The foam mirror cushions are not just important, there are essential to the consistent and reliable alignment of the mirror. If you re-read your own description you can see that you have ruled out everything else. Change them.
 
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henry finley

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Henry, I cant provide a solution to your problem. Without factory tools it will hard but not impossible. You have misunderstood what I said. The foam mirror cushions are not just important, there are essential to the consistent and reliable alignment of the mirror. If you re-read your own description you can see that you have ruled out everything else. Change them.
Thank you, and I intend to replace them, when I finalize my game plan to address everything I intend to do, having the chassis out of the outer case ONCE.
I thank you for your time in allowing me a moment of your celebrated expertise, as depicted by your impressive site in your link. I DO feel somewhat honored to learn from a master.
Having said that, I am trying to reconcile why foam in the tracks of the top panel of the assembly can have any marked influence to the mirror position when down and locked. The mirror isn't going to touch foam till it flips up. Now, having said that, running these cameras for untold years with the foam long gone, had undoubtedly allowed the mirror to knock itself out-of-whack. Hence the importance of the foam. Well and good if that train had not left the station long before I ever got hold of them.
My method of inquisition in troubleshooting has served me well over the years, however tedious it may be t other people. At this point I thank you, and need to do more hand-on observation and experimenting before finalizing my work plan. I'm bound to do this right.When I rebuilt my 1968 Camaro Convertible, it was a total mess. Should have been sent to the grinders. I made it absolutely showroom.
So that's why the big deal I've made of this. Thanks, friend--HTF
 

lxdude

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You've misunderstood- the mirror is supported by three foam pads between the mirror and the mirror backing plate.
 
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henry finley

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You've misunderstood- the mirror is supported by three foam pads between the mirror and the mirror backing plate.
Thank you very kindly for your help, guys. I am about afraid you professionals have just shot down my Hasselblad tech "career" in flames. First, those pads look like a very special part--not something I can cut out of the model railroad foam stock I've been using on my foaming projects. Secondly, it appears I'm going to have to take the back plate out of the chassis just to get to it, which opens up a whole new can of worms putting it back together without proper jigs, and a lot of adjustment.
In short, you've handed me a mirror, and all I see in it is a boob-knucklehead mechanic about to get in over his head. This is where someone can make a complete mess of the whole camera--QUICK.
So, it appears I'm seeing you factory techs REALLY ARE something special.
 
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henry finley

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Reviving this one once again, not particularly seeking free advice or reply, I'll update this saga on the elusive Hasselblad perfect universal infinity across the line of C's, CM, EL, ELM, and the various lenses I've manage to sample in my 2 years of self-study.
There is none. Switching the 3 80mm lenses I know of right this second--any one with come up with a different infinity in relation to the printed dial. One lens set perfectly on 1 will come up different in the viewfinder. Either the stop is too far, or not far enough.
As far as replacing the foam behind the mirror, I conclude that home-done it is possible, but professionally done by one of these retired factory guys have better ability, and access to the parts he might destroy in the course of certain repairs. Speaking of removing the mirror from its backing, there's no way I'd bend those tangs. Bend 5 and you're going to break 2, sure -as-shootin', and ruin it. The pros know what they're liable to accidentally destroy on any given repair job, and undoubtedly have better access to new parts than the do-it-yourselfer.
I don't think it would be smart for me to go through the steps to get that assembly in my hands, and start bending those tangs. Break just 1 and you have absolutely nothing. Too risky.
 
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henry finley

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To any and all who contributed to this topic I opened, thank you. At this later date, I can happily report that I have found an agreement to 2 different Hasselblad bodies with the same microprism screen; and from the microprism screen-to-plain groundglass screen With the same 80mm lens and the screens I mentioned, any combination, gives me the same pencil-marked point scribed on the distance scale. From a 1971 500C (which is really a CM)--to a 1980 ELM, I have found that all agree to my satisfaction. And both camera body chassises have the proof of the factory glue spots still intact, meaning there's been no tampering with factory settings.
So much for my attempts at Hasselblad repair without factory service jigs, but it CAN bs done. Thanks, folks--HTF
 
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henry finley

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Now, if any of you guys has some good knowledge of the high-end Ampex and Pioneer reel-to-reels, I'd be glad to hear from you. I've gotten pretty good at this. But can always learn something. Remember, when you go through the service-manual realignment procedures, NOBODY has the factory test tapes. Except a few guys probably dead by now, with unliberated factory test tapes, hjich have probably lost NWB strength and are probably useless any way. I'm getting somewhere with improvising. Of course, a Tek 2335 scope is starting to pull its weight. Not having factory tools is a challeging thing.
 
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