hasselblad 40mm lens problem....

[jordanstarr]

well i bought the lens on ebay and it was described as: "THIS WIDE ANGLE LENS IS IN ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT WORKING AND COSMETIC CONDITION. IT WAS VERY GENTLY USED AND SHOWS NO SIGNS OF WEAR. THE OPTICS ARE CLEAN, CLEAR AND ABSOLUTELY SCRATCH FREE. ALL THE FUNCTIONS WORK PERFECTLY AS INTENDED. NO MOISTURE OR FUNGUS INSIDE. TAKES BEAUTIFUL PICTURES. OVERALL A GREAT LENS AND READY TO USE."

I recently used it on a couple rolls of film and i thought something was off when i could not focus properly in the viewfinder (i would focus on infinity, but everything in that range was out of focus -thought it just might be because it's a super wide angle lens).

now that i develop a 16x16, focused the grain perfectly, it was still out of focus. I inspected it a little further to find that i could see little spots of haze inside the glass (mould?) and that the front element actually moves (i can hear it when i shake the lens and i can shift it about 2mm in either direction). i know the little spots probably do absolutely nothing in terms of focusing issues, but what about the seperation?

i spent about $1200 on this lens and don't want to see that money go to waste. i have yet to contact the seller with this issue (luckily they live right down the street from me and i can see them face to face and actually show them). i'm hesitating on this because i know how salesmen are and if you're not armed with sufficient knowledge they'll say something like "well you must have dropped it to cause the separation and stored it in a moist area -too bad so sad". it is 30 days after i purchased the lens and have not dropped it or stored it in a moist area, but the auction says 3-day money back guarantee. is this my fault for not making this print within 3 days and then finding a problem? any suggestions on how i might go about this? i guess the worst case scenario is that i have it serviced for a couple hundred dollars?

 

[david b]

Well, if there is mold inside the lens, then the optics are not clean and clear, and there is fungus inside.

Let him/her know right away.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Have you inspected this lens by shining a torch through it? This will reveal whether the spots are mold or not (moisture looks like fine droplets of water, mold looks like ice crystals).

Irrespective of this, Zeiss did not design the lens for use as a rattle, and a loose element is a clear case of misdescription, particularly as you paid $1200, for which you should expect a lens in Exc++ condition or better. Contact the seller (think beforehand how you will explain that it took you 30 days to notice that a lens element was rattling) and negotiate either a refund (preferred option if mold is present) or at least a rebate as a contribution to servicing (which would probalby cost $200 and up). I trust you paid with PayPal or at least with a credit card? If so, complain to them if the seller will not offer concessions.

Regards,

David

 

[jordanstarr]

i did not pay with credit card or paypal. i went right to the store and paid with cash so they wouldn't charge me tax and gave me about 40$ off.

looking through the lens with a flashlight i see that it looks like ice crystals, which i guess must be mould. in which case, how long does this take to happen? if they say "it's your fault" i'd like to come at them with some factual evidence that there is no way the mould could be my fault because it takes X-amount of time to form.

also, i don't have a receipt, but the auction has the serial number on it. is it possible to print off the add on ebay and use it as a receipt? this is the link:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170129114560&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007

would it even be wise to write them an email to tell them about the matter and then show up friday, when i'm not working? I don't want to give them a chance to work over some kind of excuse. I would prefer to show up with all my evidence displayed and put them on the spot so that the outcome would be more in my favour. if i give them time to think about it, they would more than likely have some kind of loophole to screw me out of my money.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Did not realize you bought this from a STORE! I am not at all familiar with Canadian consumer credit law. but in the normal way of things, it is an offense for a business (not individual) to sell goods which are not of the quality demanded [by the customer].

The fact that you do not have a receipt could ultimately prove a problem unless you have another means of proving that the lens came from the store and in particular that the lens was not a clearance offer with ONLY a 3-day money-back guarantee (it shouldn't have been for $1200!). You say by paying cash, you avoided tax? Was this sales tax? Sounds a bit like an off-the-books deal, but nonetheless this is all idle conjecture until you have returned to the store (no reason to give them advance warning) and asked they what they propose to do about it.

Ice-crystal-like internal mold takes months to develop even under ideal (for mold) conditions of heat, humidity and lack of ventilation -by all means tell the store that I David Bebbington ABIPP ARPS, retired professional photographer and picture-taker for more than 50 years, told you so. If my friend Roger Hicks, internationally acclaimed author of photographic books, would care to chime in here, I'm sure he'll tell you the same!

Regards,

David

PS: I note the e-bay listing says that the seller guarantees his description, so I would think there is a good chance he will honor this. Certainly print out the e-bay listing, e-bay will of course be a recourse for you if you get no satisfaction from the seller directly.

 

[bdial]

I wouldn't look for much satisfaction from ebay. And you are on slightly shaky ground given the 3 day return policy. But, I agree with David that there is a good chance the seller will honor your claim. Unless it's a really large store, they should know perfectly well they sold that lens to you, but it wouldn't hurt to bring a print out of the ebay listing.
You should go to the store, and state your case, but don't be confrontational. I'd be prepared with some sort of reason that you didn't check it within the 3 day time period specified in the auction. A good one might be that "you trusted them because the have a good reputation and you didn't expect any problem..."

 

[Nick Zentena]

No point to wait any longer. Contact the seller.

Store? Is this a store front?

 

[jordanstarr]

thanks for the advice guys. i'll let you know how it turns out. this would be useful knowledge for anyone who shops around on ebay who needs to be armed with this kind of knowledge on what they should and shouldn't do.

just one last question before i go to the store tomorrow (today is sunday and it's closed):
does mold form mostly because there are "openings" that let in moisture?
'cause if this is the case and the seperation of the lens was that opening, then i have a decent "chicken before the egg" argument if they claim it was my fault that the lens is seperated. at least at this point i can say it is highly unlikely as that seperation is where the mold came from.

thanks again everyone. a fine community this is.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

One final point - don't let anyone tell you that mold can be "easily" repaired. Mold eats the glass surface, the only way to fix it is to have the lens dismantled (including the cemented-together groups of elements), cleaned, repolished and recoated. This means that in practice a lens with mold is beyond economic repair (although I think some APUGers have sent lenses to a guy in the Ukraine who works cheap enough to make it worthwhile).

Regards,

David

 

[MattKing]

Jordan:

Which "store" is this?

Matt

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Does mold form mostly because there are "openings" that let in moisture?
'cause if this is the case and the seperation of the lens was that opening, then i have a decent "chicken before the egg" argument if they claim it was my fault that the lens is seperated. at least at this point i can say it is highly unlikely as that seperation is where the mold came from.

thanks again everyone. a fine community this is.

2 separate things here - mold will occur as I said when a lens is stored in humid conditions, particularly hot humid conditions, with poor ventilation. Almost any lens with an interlens shutter not designed to work underwater will have sufficient gaps and openings (in the shutter rather than the lens itself) which will allow moisture in under unfavorable conditions and result in mold.

The second thing is the loose element, which will develop primarily if a lens is subject to vibration (for example, carried in a bag on the back of a motorcycle or in a small airplane) and not checked at frequent intervals. Mold-causing moisture will not enter as the result of loose lens elements.

Good luck - I think there is a very good chance that the store will be reasonable and refund your money!

Regards,

David

 

[Daniel-OB]

If they were ready to sell the lens as "good", they are ready to take defence. I do not think one that own such a lens do not knows what is fungus in a lens. I think you got a trouble, but let 'em know you are not stupid.

www.Leica-R.com

 

[jordanstarr]

okay...so to update on the talk i had with aaa pawnbrokers today.

basically to sum it up, they claim they can say anything they want about an items because they grant a 3-day inspection period. once the consignor is paid, they are not willing to do anything about it. apparently it is my 100% responsibility to work within this 3-day period, even if the defect(s) were there when i got the lens. they hold no responsibility for the description of the lens on ebay.

this is pretty much the worst answer i could have gotten, so i'm taking it to small claims court. fun times. now i can spend my free time running around the city for quotes and take a day off work to spend it in court. oh happy day.

on the plus side, he does claim he "knows" the guy who sold him the camera gear (which he also claims to only have made 10% on) and will give him my contact information "whenever he shows up next". they claim they only have his name and not his phone number on file. they're pretty full of crap there, so i'm going to call them on their sh--.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Sorry to hear the result, although sadly not unexpected from a pawnbroker (I thought we were talking about a camera store). Again, I know nothing about Canadian law, but in Britain people do have the right to satisfaction from commercial sellers, and this applies as much to pawnbrokers as camera stores. In general, make it a policy in future when buying from non-expert sellers without after-sales backup (such as e-bay) to pay only trade price (50% of retail) so that you can factor in some servicing work if necessary and still come out ahead.

Hope things go well in the small-claims court!

Regards,

David

 

[MattKing]

Jordan:

Be sure to archive the eBay listing, if you intend to rely on the representations there.

I would hope that you have left negative feedback.

Matt