Has TriX in 8x10 be discontinued?

[Mahler_one]

Please be sure that I am NOT trying to start any unfounded rumors.

I am simply reporting information provided to me by others.

I noted on the Freestyle site that no Kodak 8x10 black and white film is available. A person on the staff told me that TriX 320 and Tmax 100 in 8x10 has been discontinued. We have read that one can purchase TMax 400 8x10 as a special order at several different sites. However, Kodak already announced that TMax 400 8x10 would no longer be routinely available.

At the suggestion of the amazing sales staff at Freestyle I called B&H. They have TriX 320 in 8x10 on their web site, but have no information as to the expiry date- nor did the sales person have information about the film being discontinued. B&H and Adorama might simply be selling from stock that was purchased weeks ago. I have no way of knowing, and the helpful sales person had no information to provide either.

Anyone able to find out the answer, i.e., have TriX and Tmax 100 in 8x10 been discontinued?

AFAIK, Kodak 4x5 black and white film is still readily available. However, if (and thus far it is only a BIG IF ) the 8x10 Kodak TriX 320 and TMax 100 is no longer being made, how much longer will the 4x5 be available?

Once again so that all are aware that I am NOT starting rumors of any kind.

Elliot

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Have you called Kodak to ask?

Or send an email here: profilm@kodak.com

 

[BrianShaw]

I wouldn't expect too much information from that approach. They have never provided me with information, either correct or incorrect.

Maybe some else would have better luck than have I.

 

[Mahler_one]

NO Tom, but might be a reasonable suggestion. Thanks.

 

[horacekenneth]

It may be a special order item. K.B. Canham Cameras takes special orders for all sorts of Kodak films at all sorts of sizes, you might check there: http://www.canhamcameras.com/

There's normally a minimum order and he does group purchases on such things.

I know for a fact he recently sold out an order of 8x10 TX, if you don't want to buy the minimum you might check in on when he plans to do another group buy.

 

[Mahler_one]

Yes, I know about Keith. However, one was always able to buy XXX as needed from Freestyle and elsewhere. Moreover, interestingly B&H has Tmax 400 8x10 available on their site-no special order needed.

The situation regarding the Kodak black and white 8x10 films is confusing....why does B&H have a supply, and Freestyle- which likely sells a tremendous amount of film- have no Kodak 8x10 B&W available?

 

[horacekenneth]

I can't speak to B&H vs Freestyle but I think Canham recently said that 8x10 TX was about to become a special order only item.

 

[Mahler_one]

In light of what we suspect has transpired, Keith's suggestion regarding special orders makes complete sense.

So, the situation MIGHT be that for 8x10 ( and larger formats ) Kodak black and white film will be available by special order only. Ilford special order for unusual, unique, or special formats, but 8x10 and 11x14 will always be available. If one needs film on the" spur of the moment" OR from a source that is dedicated to analog photographers, then the choices are: Ilford ( wonderful film and a company that MUST be supported by those of us devoted to analog photography. For the record, I have changed to Ilford HP5 and FP4 and find both films excellent in every way. ILford MG FB paper, their rapid fixer, their line of developers, etc., etc. ), Foma, some "off-brands" available at Freestyle and elsewhere ( good quality, but uncertain manufacture ), and eventually Adox. Some Japanese black and white sheet films might also be considered, but others will have to report why and how such films are superior to those sheet films available from Ilford.

As long as we have the three choices HP5, FP4, Delta 100 ) from Ilford then 8x10 analog photographers are well provisioned. The days of multiple choices for film are apparently ending if not already over. Many predicted as such. Be grateful that one company is still standing, and dedicated to analog photography.

Support the company that supports you....Ilford must not be allowed to wither.

Happy Valentine's Day to all.

Elliot

 

[Brian C. Miller]

Both Glazer's Camera and B&H Photo are carrying current, fresh Tri-X in 8x10. You could also check with Badger Graphic, too.

Kodak has gone to a special-order-only model for all sheet film in 8x10 and above. I do know that last year when the announcement went out, 8x10 TriX sold out, then it came in, sold out, and now there's a good amount in Glazer's fridge. I'm not sure if Kodak made a big cut and then distributed it, or what's happening behind the scenes. Anyways, Canham Camera is handling special orders, and they have some order status information on their Facebook page.

But as long as Kodak is making any sheet film at all, then it will be cut in 8x10 sizes if enough people want it.

As for Fuji Acros 8x10, that's available from Japan Exposures, but it isn't cheap. Acros is really nice because it has a finer grain than TMax 100, and has awesome reciprocity non-failure.

 

[Mahler_one]

I hate to disagree Brian. I called Glazer's a few hours ago. They have NO TriX available for delivery today, but might have more in subsequently .

Yes, B&H has TriX now. We shall see what transpires in the future. I hope that you are correct with your inference that TriX will always be available for those of us who cannot order film in advance and store such film in in our freezers.

Yes, thankfully Badger has TriX in stock. I appreciate the sourcing information very much.

Thanks for the information on Fuji film. I wondered how such compared to Ilford, etc.

However....isn't it peculiar that a company as well known and which sells so much film, i.e., Freestyle, would have no fresh Kodak film in stock, and cannot get any? Puzzling.

 

[MattKing]

There is probably an issue with an intervening distributor.

I wonder if B & H have "distributor" status themselves?

 

[StoneNYC]

If you've ever been to B&H you'd understand. My guess is, they have exact counts of what the Tri-X 8x10 purchase per year is, and probably do a special order THEMSELVES to keep it in stock, there's SO many photographers in NYC and they are very good at knowing exactly what their customer base wants. I'm sure they did the math and special ordered a certain amount. They also still have 620 rolls...

They always put the expired stock in a special category so anything you see listed is "fresh" stock and not at all expired.

I don't know if they freeze it, but it's more than likely they do.

PS I agree with the statement about supporting Ilford.

I buy Acros for the reciprocity characteristics and price, if Ilford had a film that matched that, I would not buy any Fuji, and if Tmax becomes more expensive than Delta400 I'll be ALL ilford. (Speaking of 120 film prices). The only thing that could make ilford any better is if they matched fuji's 120 rolls with their easy pull wrapper and their instant catch reels which are super convenient especially since I shoot in a lot of environments where I'm wearing gloves, it's MUCH easier to grab a tab and not have to fiddle with cutting a wrapper or licking paper, and much easier to catch that leader then have to make sure it wraps properly...

I know there are patent issues ilford probably wants to avoid but I hope they pick up on this because those are some really useful features...

And if they would make PanF+ in 4x5... AND 70mm perf... hehe...


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mahler_one]

HI Matt:

I often thought that B&H had some special status with Kodak ( and perhaps Ilford as well ) because B&H prices were usually somewhat less than the same film sold elsewhere.

 

[StoneNYC]

HI Matt:

I often thought that B&H had some special status with Kodak ( and perhaps Ilford as well ) because B&H prices were usually somewhat less than the same film sold elsewhere.

B&H and Freestyle both buy a LOT of film, so they both have a special bulk purchase status with a lot of companies, not sure if theirs is better than Freestyle but I think they probably have more storage capacity for film than freestyle might. So they might buy in larger quantities at one time which often gives any company a discount per purchase even on the wholesale side. I recognize this isn't something that my local lab can do, but my local lab claims THEIR purchase price for Ilford PanF+ wholesale is $6/ roll of 120, when it's cheaper than that retail at B&H at around $5/roll so how can I buy it from my local place at $8-$9/roll? I honestly don't believe my local photo shop when they say that, I wonder how much Simon would be willing to disclose about that here... Probably nothing... I would buy from my local place if the ilford wasn't extremely more expensive than B&H.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kevin Kehler]

I recognize this isn't something that my local lab can do, but my local lab claims THEIR purchase price for Ilford PanF+ wholesale is $6/ roll of 120, when it's cheaper than that retail at B&H at around $5/roll so how can I buy it from my local place at $8-$9/roll? I honestly don't believe my local photo shop when they say that,

Having worked at a camera store, I can say they are telling you the truth. FP4+ in 5x7 sheets sells to Canadian stores for $56 a box, which they resell for $72 - B&H sells a box for $44. Tri-X in 120 sells to Canadian stores for $6 a roll, resold for $7.99 - B&H sells for $4.95. B&H sells more film every quarter than Canada buys in a year, so I am not surprised they get a better rate than smaller stores can.

 

[Brian C. Miller]

I hate to disagree Brian. I called Glazer's a few hours ago. They have NO TriX available for delivery today, but might have more in subsequently .

I'll walk over there after work and take a look. When I was in there last week the fridge had at least 10 boxes.

BTW, did you speak to someone in the film/darkroom section?

 

[Mahler_one]

Thanks Brian.

 

[Mahler_one]

Thanks Kevin. I am guessing that Canadian customs keeps the products that are shipped from the US out, or charges very high fees? If not, how can Canadian photographic supply stores survive...or do they?

 

[zsas]

Have you called Kodak to ask?

Or send an email here: profilm@kodak.com

I emailed them, here is the info...

My question:

Andy to: profilm@kodak.com
02/14/2013 05:23 PM
Hi -

Is Tri-X 320 and Tmax 100 for 8x10 a special order item or will it continue to be supplied as normal? There are rumors on the Internet that they were discontinued and only special order going forward?

Thanks,
Andy

Reply from Kodak

On Feb 15, 2013, at 8:23 AM, profilm@kodak.com wrote:

Dear Mr. X,

All the active catalog numbers for 2013 are now listed on the Kodak Professional Films web page on Kodak.com.

Likewise, the special-order sheet films are also listed, including the two 8x10 size B&W films you mentioned in your note. These are available through U.S. based K.B. Canham Cameras. There is a link on the page to the Canham website.

Hope this information is helpful.

I believe s/he is referring to the info here:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/films/filmsIndex.jhtml?pq-path=13319

Thanks Thomas for the tip! I don't shoot 8x10 but I cringe when I see discontinuation rumors of any film/paper!

 

[MattKing]

Thanks Kevin. I am guessing that Canadian customs keeps the products that are shipped from the US out, or charges very high fees? If not, how can Canadian photographic supply stores survive...or do they?

There are almost no Canadian duties charged on US manufactured goods, due to NAFTA.

The high costs we suffer from are due to distribution costs and the lack of "scale" in the Canadian retail markets.

When Kodak was its own distributor, Kodak products could be obtained easily and at reasonable cost.

That is no longer the case.

 

[Mahler_one]

Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to gather the information. Very, very appreciated.

So....as I understand the current situation, TriX 320 in 8x10 is now only available by special order?

Not discontinued, but "harder" to purchase?

However, as is the case with TMax 400, perhaps B and H will continue to have the film available. As discussed, B and H must order film in very large quantities, and as has been pointed out, store such films for eventual sale. However, if the price at B and H is similar to that available by special purchase, then no obvious problem, correct? Why go to Keith if B and H has one's preferred Kodak 8x10 film at the same price? However, if B and H decides not to purchase in large amounts and store the film then all bets are off.

One must suspect that it is surely time to very seriously consider the alternatives, i.e., Ilford, Foma, or eventually, Adox CHS and Pan 400-all in 8x10 of course. Considerably less money, and readily available at almost any time from multiple sources.

I am accelerating my migration to Ilford HP5 and FP4. The difference in contact prints on Azo/Lodima using Amidol made from negatives between such Ilford films and Kodak's are, to my eyes, not different enough to merit the added stress of wondering about the availability of 8x10 sheets-and there is always the noted price difference. Naturally others will feel very much different.

Thankfully those friends who use 4x5 sheets are currently unaffected.

 

[Mahler_one]

OK. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Kevin Kehler]

Matt beat me to it but generally, I can ship from the states for about 30% less than buying from a Canadian supplier, even after the shipping and duties are included. Most stores have agreements with manufacturers and cannot buy from anybody but official suppliers - thus, Nikon lens caps are $7-8 more than off eBay but if Nikon found out a store was buying caps from anybody but them, they would pull the distribution agreement for all Nikon products. In doing so, any camera or item will not carry warranty from Nikon (all of the major manufacturers have similar agreements). Nikon Canada won't work on a Nikon camera which is not purchased in Canada, even if you are willing to pay 100% of the costs, so being an official store is a big deal. Costco is not an official supplier of almost anyone (in Canada, they are official suppliers of Nikon in the States), which is why any camera, TV or electronic device only has Costco's warranty, not a manufacturers warranty.

So, for film, there is not a lot of market in Canada for film compared to the USA (we are 1/10th the population) and stores would never risk losing official supplier status by going outside of official channels. Just economies of scale. I was looking at a lamp on Amazon and it was $21 in the States, same lamp on Amazon's Canadian site is $67.

 

[Dennis S]

Here is another example of the price BS.:
http://www.amazon.ca/Kodak-T-MAX-Sp...20I7/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1360995496&sr=8-7

Compared to : http://freestylephoto.biz/1397538-K...36-exp.-TMY-New-Improved-Emulsion!?cat_id=402

What would be your choice ?

 

[StoneNYC]

Matt beat me to it but generally, I can ship from the states for about 30% less than buying from a Canadian supplier, even after the shipping and duties are included. Most stores have agreements with manufacturers and cannot buy from anybody but official suppliers - thus, Nikon lens caps are $7-8 more than off eBay but if Nikon found out a store was buying caps from anybody but them, they would pull the distribution agreement for all Nikon products. In doing so, any camera or item will not carry warranty from Nikon (all of the major manufacturers have similar agreements). Nikon Canada won't work on a Nikon camera which is not purchased in Canada, even if you are willing to pay 100% of the costs, so being an official store is a big deal. Costco is not an official supplier of almost anyone (in Canada, they are official suppliers of Nikon in the States), which is why any camera, TV or electronic device only has Costco's warranty, not a manufacturers warranty.

So, for film, there is not a lot of market in Canada for film compared to the USA (we are 1/10th the population) and stores would never risk losing official supplier status by going outside of official channels. Just economies of scale. I was looking at a lamp on Amazon and it was $21 in the States, same lamp on Amazon's Canadian site is $67.

I <3 Lamp

Hehe (old guys may not get the reference lol).


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk