Has the ideal medium format macro camera been made?

[Struan Gray]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5x4-Crime-Sce...195QQihZ020QQcategoryZ627QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Nobody has mentioned the Hasselblad system. You could use a Hasselblad 500C/M body and get the older bellows (non-auto) which would be fairly inexpensive. It requires a double cable release system, but this is the advantage. You can set the double cable so that the first cable triggers the body, and then just screw the second cable into a generic leaf shutter where you've mounted your enlarger lens. This kit won't give you swings/ tilts, but it would be pretty easy to make an adapter flange to mount your shuttered enlarger lens. You can also get a Hasselblad->Contax mount adapter that would let you put a Contax SLR on the back of the bellows. There may be an adapter out there to put other systems behind it also, but I don't know.

 

[Anupam Basu]

Found a Bronica bellows in this completed EBay auction. This indeed looks a thing of beauty. Elegantly simple. Thanks for pointing me to it. I won't be able to buy it just yet but it gives me a lot of ideas.

-Anupam

 

[John Koehrer]

Nobody has mentioned the Hasselblad system. You could use a Hasselblad 500C/M body and get the older bellows (non-auto) which would be fairly inexpensive. It requires a double cable release system, but this is the advantage. You can set the double cable so that the first cable triggers the body, and then just screw the second cable into a generic leaf shutter where you've mounted your enlarger lens. This kit won't give you swings/ tilts, but it would be pretty easy to make an adapter flange to mount your shuttered enlarger lens. You can also get a Hasselblad->Contax mount adapter that would let you put a Contax SLR on the back of the bellows. There may be an adapter out there to put other systems behind it also, but I don't know.

Didn't Hasselblad also have a couple of specialty bodies a while back Arc & somethin' else? One was basically a bellows with magazine & lens mount.

 

[epatsellis]

John,
try finding one that mere mortals can afford, for me, I'll stick with my RB67 back and lensboard on my Toyo 45E, all the benefits of an RB, and all the movements of a view camera, for too cheap to even consider anything else.

erie

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Didn't Hasselblad also have a couple of specialty bodies a while back Arc & somethin' else? One was basically a bellows with magazine & lens mount.

Yes they did- but those cameras are extremely limited in their bellows draw - basically they're dedicated wideangle to normal bodies. They're also highly sought-after, and very expensive.

 

[Peter Williams]

I think that you should also look at the Fuji GX680 cameras. I believe that they meet all of the requirements that you gave and they have become extermely affordable over the past year or so. The GX680 II is my favorite camera and I have had some good success with macro shots with it. You can get extension rails and extended bellows to really rack the lens out and still have lens movements. AFAIK, this is the only MF camera that has all of the features you are looking for. It's also a fantastic camera for portraits if that mood ever strikes.

 

[Struan Gray]

The Novoflex tilt-shift bellows is compatible with MF cameras up to 6x7:

http://www.novoflex.de/english/html/fr_ema5.htm

 

[Jim Jones]

Long ago, when photographers spent more time improvising accessories than money buying them, simple wire frames were sometimes used for very fast focusing and framing. I've also used the Pentax Copy Pod and a somewhat similar device for Leica rangefinder cameras. You can't see the subject in relation to the background, but you can capture it easier and faster than by framing and focusing through the lens.

A flash with the correct fixed output at about the same distance as the camera from the subject provides correct exposure over a fair range of macro photography when using a bellows. The light fall-of as the flash to subject distance increases compensates for the bellows factor. It's been 40 years since I've done this math and photography, and can't be more specific now.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Jim, you've just described either the Spiratone Macrodapter, of which I have a couple, or the old Kalt macro bracket that held two little flashes and attached to the camera's tripod socket. I gave my Kalt away to a friend who would, I thought, have a harder time finding one -- he was in Costa Rica -- than I would. Boy, was I wrong about their availability here, but its easy to make an ugly equivalent that's just as good from scrap lumber or sheet plexiglas or lexan. The Macrodapter is functionally equivalent to a bracket made by Jones of Hollywood -- I have a pair of them too -- and I'm not sure which came first.

I've done the math too, and it turns out that "at about the same distance as the camera from the subject," as with the Kalt adapter, gives more-or-less the right exposure over a much narrower range, and biased towards lowish magnifications, than "at about the same distance from the subject as the lens' front node." The second arrangement is more-or-less the Macrodapter and it gives more nearly correct exposure at the same aperture set over a broader range, but biased towards magnifications as high as 2:1.

I have all this nonsense spelled out cleanly in a really cute (I say) spreadsheet and gave Anupam a copy of it some time ago. He doesn't seem to believe it enough to test its implications. But all it is is the Pythagorean theorem, GN arithmetic, and exposure adjustment for magnification.

Thinking of Anupam, he started this thread with the news that he's an impoverished grad student who wants to shoot closeup with a format larger than 35 mm. Perhaps we should stop touting gear that's out of his price range.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[Greg_E]

As Jim brings up, have you thought about making your own bellows? Then you could use any FP shutter camera body, and get some of the movements you might want. Movements will be limited because of the mirror box with the SLR cameras.

There are two very good books about making (folding) bellows in the camera building and modification forum. One by Barry Young, and another that is free on the web. I bought Barry's first, and it gives a nice simple, well explained method to making a bellows. The second free book gives a few other insites that I may not have understood without Barry's book. My next camera will be a self made bellows camera of some sorts, just so I can learn one more thing (even if it is only a pinhole bellows camera).

Also remember that a bellows does not have to be a nicely folded work of art, it could be a simple light proof bag with a mount for the camera body, and a mount for your prefered lenses. That would be about the cheapest way to get going and see if it helped you get the results you want. You might also be able to experiment with this on your 35mm camera without having to buy anything but a few parts.

The Mamiya 645 from the first model up to the ProTL are all happy without a lens attached, so it might be an option if you can find one of those cheap.

 

[bjorke]

In answer to the original question:

Yes but now they are waiting for the Ideal Woman to use it

 

[Antje]

In answer to the original question:

Yes but now they are waiting for the Ideal Woman to use it

Well, here I am! Where's my camera?

SCNR

Antje (I think a Canon dSLR with an MP-E 65/2.8 is the perfect macro camera - if it only were MF)

 

[bjorke]

Here you go! The Canon HyPro Medium Format camera.

 

[Eric Rose]

I use my Linhof Tek IV with a roll film back.

 

[Antje]

Here you go! The Canon HyPro Medium Format camera.

Yeah, that *might* do. If, and only if, that is a waistlevel viewfinder on top of it! And does it have an MP3 player?

Antje

 

[Neil Poulsen]

KER-WHAP!!!

Interesting thread.

I hadn't thought of it in the past, but I also think the Bronica S series would be good. It can accept a wide variety of lenses. One could easily have a "lens-board" made that would screw into threads purposely made available for this purpose where lenses connect to the camera's bayonet mount system. It has the focal plane shutter, but one could then also use a lens with a between the lens shutter. As someone else pointed out, the Type II bellows has some movements.

A potential problem is the "violence" with which the shutter on these cameras exposes the film when using lenses without shutters. There's no mirror lockup with this camera. But, I would think this could be mitigated by strong support and by the fact that macro requires long exposures. The time period during which the shutter opens is very small, when compared to the overall exposure. Plus, I've used an S2a for years, and I get very sharp photos. This would not be an issue when using between the lens shutters.

By the way, what's the advantage of the focal plane shutter, other than this would make it possible to use a wider variety of lenses?

 

[Jim Noel]

I am jumping in late,but there is no medium format camera which will do closeups like the Rollei SL 66. Since all lenses can be mounted in a reversed position it can be used amazingly close.

 

[bjorke]

Yeah, that *might* do. If, and only if, that is a waistlevel viewfinder on top of it! And does it have an MP3 player?

Antje

I'm surprised no one commented on the manual-focus Canon-FD 50mm f/1.4 mounted on the front.

There were no MP3 players available. Dig the flash connector. See the designer here

 

[Mike Kovacs]

I am jumping in late,but there is no medium format camera which will do closeups like the Rollei SL 66. Since all lenses can be mounted in a reversed position it can be used amazingly close.

I can't agree more. The above shot is a mushroom, about 1/2 inch in diameter which I captured on Efke 25 with my SL66 and the 50/4 Distagon HFT lens in the reversed position.

I will say this - medium format macros are not for the feint-hearted. You have next to no depth of field available and limited (SL66) or no movements. In the field, you find yourself stopping down even more than with 35mm, meaning subject movement is often a problem. In summary, your technique has to be absolutely perfect to pull it off.

 

[Logan Group]

I have a Rodenstock Ysaron 1:4.5 150mm lens mounted in a a self cocking Copal Shutter with a ring flash. The whole mess is mounted on a Sinar lens board that I use on my Sinar F2. I only mention it because the self cocking shutter may be a good solution to use with your enlarging lenses and you wouldn't have to use a focal plane shutter. You would still have to manually stop down your lens of course.