Has my Rodinal gone bad?

Ok, so:
Has anyone experienced a failure with Rodinal? Not the original one, but R09 from Adox.
Today I developed a Delta 3200@1000 using Rodinal 1+25 for 7:30 min (temperature 24 °C).
There are images on the film, but they are very faint.
Three weeks ago, another roll of Delta 3200 came out very similar to this.
I thought it could be due to the camera (bought two months ago) but then it came to my mind the fact that another roll (different size and brand) came out a little bit faint.

Now: I always kept Rodinal in its original container. Did it fail because of this?
I make the working solution with the aid of a siringe; maybe some little drops of water fell inside the bottle. Is this a possible scenario?
Thanks.

zehner21 said:

Ok, so:
Has anyone experienced a failure with Rodinal? Not the original one, but R09 from Adox.
Today I developed a Delta 3200@1000 using Rodinal 1+25 for 7:30 min (temperature 24 °C).
There are images on the film, but they are very faint.
Three weeks ago, another roll of Delta 3200 came out very similar to this.
I thought it could be due to the camera (bought two months ago) but then it came to my mind the fact that another roll (different size and brand) came out a little bit faint.

Now: I always kept Rodinal in its original container. Did it fail because of this?
I make the working solution with the aid of a siringe; maybe some little drops of water fell inside the bottle. Is this a possible scenario?
Thanks.

Click to expand...

Why are you not using the original version? What is this RO9 from Adox? Why complain if you use substitutes.

Is the rebate printing faint as well as the images?

cliveh said:

Why are you not using the original version? What is this RO9 from Adox? Why complain if you use substitutes.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry. I was thinking to Adox but I was wrong. I'm actually using the R09 from Agfa.
Rebates are faint.

cliveh said:

Why are you not using the original version? What is this RO9 from Adox? Why complain if you use substitutes.

Click to expand...

rodinal is a generic formula you can make up clones of at home.
There is not a magic bullet.

Even a 1/4 full bottle of clone was ok after 25 years.

zehner21 said:

I'm sorry. I was thinking to Adox but I was wrong. I'm actually using the R09 from Agfa.
Rebates are faint.

Click to expand...

Faint rebates rules out the camera.
Mine was opened more than a year ago is about half full and is ok.
You did not decant or filter it?

Xmas said:

Faint rebates rules out the camera.
Mine was opened more than a year ago is about half full and is ok.
You did not decant or filter it?

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No, never. Why?
I'm not bothered with crystals for I use a syringe...

R09 goes bad very quickly. It is not the Rodinal that we all know.

Some people said that these problems are solved by removing a little bottle before using its contents,
As some medications I used to put agitate before using

NB23 said:

R09 goes bad very quickly. It is not the Rodinal that we all know.

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Please elaborate. AG Photographic, a British online retailer, state that:
"ADOX ADONAL is the formulated to the exact specifications of RODINAL, as made by AGFA up until the demise of the company in 2005. As such it is identical to that developer"
Agfa Rodinal (Adox Adonal) is a very simple formula dating from the 1880s, based on 4-aminophenol, a precursor of the painkiller paracetamol, and potassium hydroxide. RO9 is supposed to be the same. I have been using RO9 in bags since I finished my last bottle of Rodinal. I was slightly concerned about continuity so I compared a recent negative with an older one of the same object, same film, same meter, same camera. According to my densitometer readings they are identical.
7 1/2 minutes at 24degC seems a very short dev time for a high-speed film, although the massive dev chart concurs. High-speed films rapidly lose sensitivity after manufacture.

cliveh said:

Why are you not using the original version? What is this RO9 from Adox? Why complain if you use substitutes.

Click to expand...

It was my understanding that you can't get the "original" agfa rodinal as agfa no longer exists and have to use the adox product, which is supposedly identical. That would be a pretty good reason to use a "substitute"

Just finished a bottle of R09 one shot, had it for at least 3 years, black as night, works just fine, just enough in the dregs to develop my roll of Fomapan 35mm, so it seems to keep fine for me, I have yet to see RO9/one shot, go off, I am talking about the Rollei version, I don't know about the adox version as none of my suppliers stock it, so I stick to the Rollei product
Richard

It has been mentioned that this problem is solved by stirring the product just before use

NB23 said:

R09 goes bad very quickly. It is not the Rodinal that we all know.

Click to expand...

Can you give us your experience of this such as how long before it goes bad, under what conditions, how many times this happened etc?

If you know what is essentially different in R09 compared to traditional Rodinal that might account for it going bad very quickly this would be extremely helpful.

pentaxuser

pentaxuser said:

Can you give us your experience of this such as how long before it goes bad, under what conditions, how many times this happened etc?

If you know what is essentially different in R09 compared to traditional Rodinal that might account for it going bad very quickly this would be extremely helpful.

pentaxuser

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A more pregnant question is has NB23 ever used it...

The concentrated paraaminophenol developers should last decades. It is difficult to manufacture them wrong and everyone one has made them in past including members herein.

I've had Azol last a decade in part full bottle.

Xmas said:

A more pregnant question is has NB23 ever used it...

.

Click to expand...

I am sure this will become obvious in his answer which I am sure he will give. I cannot believe he will leave his previous comment "as is" and not reply

We are all here to share our experience and knowledge, aren't we?

pentaxuser

In my long search for the Original RODINAL, back in 2008, the conclusion was that it was traded under the name Adonal (adox) or Blazinal for the Canadian market.
R09 was AGFA's developer prior to Rodinal. In general, it is differentiated from Rodinal by its 1:20 and 1:40 dilution recomendations.

Back in 2008/09, there was a huge confusion with the Rodinal iterations. R09 was traded as "R09 New", and it was different than R09.

But you know what? listen to xmas, he seems to care a lot. I don't care as much. I use ADONAL and now RODINAL ADOX and I know it is the original Rodinal.

If your stuff goes bad, then it is not Rodinal.

And I recomend Ilfosol-3 if you like Rodinal.

The Original, pre war formula of Rodinal is not and never has been sold as RO9 by Adox, it is made and sold as APH09, and was long sold with the dilutions of 1/40 as the standard dilution, it was dark as it came from the factory, and the developing times were the same as for Rodinal, and it would keep for between 2 and 4 years, at which time it would go solid with crystals, and become unusable, I have used a couple of bottles of it, it came in 1 litre bottles, it has since been changed by Adox to the 1/25 and 1 in 50 dilutions and is in 500 ml bottles, The adox Adonal or Rollei RO9 one shot is the rodinal we know and love, and will still keep forever, it is Rodinal by another name, There is also RO9 from Foma, sold in 25ml bottles, which is said also said to be Rodinal by another name.

https://www.flickr.com/groups/rodinal-r09-spezial/

Pre Agfas split up they sold more than one developer under the Rodinal banner but only one was a paraaminophenol...

This practice continues today.

So I read NB23 post as abstract.

My bottles of R09 have lasted to last drip.

Does not help us with the OPs problem?

A clip test of a scrap of film leader in a small amount of diluted developer will tell us a lot. Mix up 50ml or thereabouts of working solution and place a small piece of film leader in it and 'develop' for the appropriate time. This can be done in daylight.

Fix the film scrap and inspect. It should be very dark and this will indicate the condition of you Rodinal concentrate.

I am not sure, but I think I might be experiencing a similar problem as the OP. I have a bottle of R09 one shot, which states it is produced by "Connect Chemicals Production & Services GmbH, Vaihingen/Enz as Rodinal". I just realized the developer is heavily crystallized, basically a really thick layer of solid white crystals precipitated at the bottom. The bottle contains about 100mL of concentrate and is about 4 years old. The last roll I developed with it came out quite flat, not completely undeveloped, but it looks like underdeveloped to me, compared to my previous rolls of the same film, exposed in similar way with the same camera. I might be wrong, or made some mistake, but I suspect the activity of the developer has decreased. I have been shaking it vigorously and was able to redissolve most of the thick crystals, but now I am in doubt whether I should use it again.

mauro35 said:

I am not sure, but I think I might be experiencing a similar problem as the OP. I have a bottle of R09 one shot, which states it is produced by "Connect Chemicals Production & Services GmbH, Vaihingen/Enz as Rodinal". I just realized the developer is heavily crystallized, basically a really thick layer of solid white crystals precipitated at the bottom. The bottle contains about 100mL of concentrate and is about 4 years old. The last roll I developed with it came out quite flat, not completely undeveloped, but it looks like underdeveloped to me, compared to my previous rolls of the same film, exposed in similar way with the same camera. I might be wrong, or made some mistake, but I suspect the activity of the developer has decreased. I have been shaking it vigorously and was able to redissolve most of the thick crystals, but now I am in doubt whether I should use it again.

Click to expand...

I would suggest you do use it again, but with a test film. Otherwise I don't think you'll ever know.

Mick.

Edit, we will never know either.

Mick Fagan said:

I would suggest you do use it again, but with a test film. Otherwise I don't think you'll ever know.

Mick.

Edit, we will never know either.

Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense. I should probably do that.

Well the clip test in post #20 should be enough?

But I'd not bother another bottle is not that expensive, if the next one lasts four years.

Note I've had a bottles good after ten and twenty five years respectively both part full.

The crystals I get are coffee granule in colour...

even a few years back some suggested R09 had a bad shelf life and others disagreed ...
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I've never used rodinal or its derivatives but I have used dying and dead developer and got flat and faint negatives
( developer wrong dilution, used for wrong time, or not replenished or active )
I also have gotten faint /underdeveloped negatives from user error
( wrong dilution, not developing film enough, not exposing enough mis setting my meter, using old film and not compensating for age or storage conditions &c )

while I'm not familiar with rodinol, or R09, I'd suggest you do a few simple things to rule out what might not be a problem.
processing a leader was already suggested, i'd also suggest develop a roll of film in a different developer and see what happens ...
or change your development by extending time, or over exposing the film to make sure the cameras
shutter isn't a few speeds off to rule out a few things ... regular stuff you might consider doing whenever there is a developer error ...
(I would do these things if I got faint film with any developer )

all that stuff said, I have only read in my time here on apug ( since 2003 ) that ancient bottles of rodinol and r09
work well often times as well as when brand new ...

good luck sorting out your problem!
john

ps and easy way of ruling out your camera is through one of those smart phone or internet sound byte type shutter speed testers
if you don't have an old calumet tester or a friend who owns a camera store. also make sure your battery is fresh for your camera so
your meter doesn't give bad readings ... my meter error was with a hand held error ... the iso at 7 stops wrong .. fortunately i
processed every sheet of film separately and i had some sort of magic agfa paper that worked wonders with see through / faint film.
i still have some sheets left, but save the box mostly to remind myself to always make sure my meter is set right ...